I Asked Peter Ralston About Psychedelics, Here Is His Response...

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

@Water by the River you mocked me. It shows you don't care about people. Which means your spirituality is not worth it. It's bull.

Shush! He has made a serious and valuable post and you are being ungrateful.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Shush! He has made a serious and valuable post and you are being ungrateful.

I don't deny that. But he often makes very long posts. He could have divided it into two posts for the sake of convenience. Some people here have trouble reading extra long posts. Have consideration please. Didn't deny the content of the post. But it could have been a bit presentable to the reader. Thanks. 

Also sentiments of others are valuable if you are going to be ohh so spiritual!!! 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Buck Edwards

[Water by the River]

5 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

@Water by the River you mocked me. It shows you don't care about people. Which means your spirituality is not worth it. It's bull. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=frog+pond+plop+zen&rlz=1C1CHBF_deDE908DE908&sxsrf=AB5stBjjt50nXde_G3vF6Tnk9kPmc3XowQ%3A1691404768134&ei=4MnQZILvB676sAfN3K_gDg&ved=0ahUKEwiC34DjrcqAAxUuPewKHU3uC-wQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=frog+pond+plop+zen&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiEmZyb2cgcG9uZCBwbG9wIHplbjIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigAUimFFCcCFinEnABeACQAQCYAewBoAGLBqoBBTAuMy4xuAEDyAEA-AEBwgILEC4YgAQYsAMYywHCAgkQABgIGB4YsAPCAgsQABgIGB4YDxiwA8ICBhAAGBYYHuIDBBgBIEGIBgGQBgQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

That little Haiku of Basho is in my perspective a very nice pointer to Ultimate Reality. 

If one wants it shorter and with less conceptual overkill, Zen is perfect for that. I like it a lot.

If you have felt mocked, please excuse. It was not my intention to mock you personally, but please give me some space sometimes for some of my posts. It is not that I am not self-ironic or unaware of the length of my posts.

But I can't make some stuff shorter. The book has 600 pages, the method alone at least 300 if one leaves the preliminary stuff away. And Leo asked for a short summary.

Water by the River

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said:

He could have divided it into two posts for the sake of convenience.

True. Will do that next time.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Some people here have trouble reading extra long posts.

That's your own problem.

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's your own problem.

Have consideration for others as well instead of scapegoating. Will serve you good. As well as others. By the way he himself took my advice for which I'm grateful. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Buck Edwards

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

@Buck Edwards Have consideration for people that like long posts then.

Well they aren't going to suffer seeing short posts. 

I didn't mean any meanness to the user @Water by the River. I myself follow buddhism. And I'm grateful he talks about it here. Because Leo scoffs at Buddhist content calling it Buddhist rat and all. So it's refreshing to see someone having the balls to share content I'm interested in. I would like to pm you some time @Water by the Riverif you don't mind.

 

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Water by the River Thank you for the effort and thought you put into your posts and explanations of Buddhism.

There's some good stuff in what you quotes. And I see what is being gotten at there. There's definitely value to that.

However, I still insist that the God-Realization I speak of is beyond that and cannot be attained via those methods. Although I do not dismiss that those attainments you mention are very good and valuable.

Alien Consciousness is completely beyond everything those Buddhists understand or have ever achieved.

I agree that some Awakenings can't be had without psychedelics. And that what you call Alien Consciousness is for sure cutting edge. And I do consider you a pioneer, and have read so far most of what you wrote, and watched most of your videos.

"Alien Consciousness is completely beyond everything those Buddhists understand or have ever achieved."

That I don't know, since I don't know what every Buddhist has achieved. But it is very well possible what you write, since they didn't have 5-MeO and other stuff. They had psychedelics [ Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana ], but not all what is available now, and not pure. But some exploration they did: https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz , 

Yet, I consider Full Enlightenment becoming that Ultimate Reality as a Deep Identity level shift, with no more filters of the separate-self not seen through or covering that Realization/Deep Identity Level shift, no more filter on any of these Awakenings/Enlightenments. True Self, because every being is that already, with some illusion-clouds on top. Not projecting Absolute Reality on separate-self remains, but pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. And since that brings bliss and liberation in daily life. I consider it highly valueable. Summum Bonum [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum_bonum ]

So lets continue exploring and awakening to ever higher, larger and more encompassing [Alien] perspectives in Indras Net of Reality, since that is one of the reasons why we are, and one of the reasons God is playing that game/Lila. I just propose doing that from a consideration of the basis of the Summum Bonum mentioned above. 

Considering that suffering = continued search for further experiences/understandings/realization and end of suffering = resting in ones Deep True Identity as  Reality itself, there is a "little" pointer given by Reality via suffering on that issue.

Specifically: Placing the importance/value of Alien Consciousness on the same level as striving for Full Enlightenment, i feel fine with that. As long as the Alien Consciousness doesn't drag home some less-than-healthy consequences. Why? Because the paths for both goals go towards more Consciousness, not less. They run parallel, or at least normally not opposed if one doesn't get lost in these Alien Awakenings. Which probably can be avoided.

Placing anything higher as the striving for Full Enlightenment is in my perspective choosing suffering, which is not a permanently sustainable strategy. That is the only reason why I am writing all of this. Besides that, I am a big fan Leo! The world needs more people like you. The more pioneers we have, the faster the Wild West is explored. And the faster we know where the rattlesnakes are hiding, which branch-off of the path leads to Death Valles and which leads to California.

Water by the River

 

[Water by the River]

10 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Well they aren't going to suffer seeing short posts. 

I didn't mean any meanness to the user @Water by the River. I myself follow buddhism. And I'm grateful he talks about it here. Because Leo scoffs at Buddhist content calling it Buddhist rat and all. So it's refreshing to see someone having the balls to share content I'm interested in. I would like to pm you some time @Water by the Riverif you don't mind.

 

Thanks. And sure, PM anytime.

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River

On 5/8/2023 at 10:22 PM, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

am

The question would be: Are you completely free of Buddhism and cite it as an interesting curiosity after having those realizations yourself, or is your mind subtly attached to it? the mind is very reluctant to let go. Are you able to really open up to reality, without any expectations? So you can have the hobby of reading Buddhism or whatever and contrasting it, but if Buddhism conditions your mind, then it's toxic.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

"Alien Consciousness is completely beyond everything those Buddhists understand or have ever achieved."

I only say that because I've never encountered a human spiritual teacher who teaches it. It's unheard of. Which is why I am vocal about it. Why should I be vocal about Buddhism when everyone already knows about it? The point of talking, for me, is to say new things. Not to rehash old ground.

Quote

Yet, I consider Full Enlightenment becoming that Ultimate Reality as a Deep Identity level shift, with no more filters of the separate-self not seen through or covering that Realization/Deep Identity Level shift, no more filter on any of these Awakenings/Enlightenments. True Self, because every being is that already, with some illusion-clouds on top. Not projecting Absolute Reality on separate-self remains, but pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. And since that brings bliss and liberation in daily life. I consider it highly valueable.

I agree that's highly valuable.

Quote

Specifically: Placing the importance/value of Alien Consciousness on the same level as striving for Full Enlightenment, i feel fine with that. As long as the Alien Consciousness doesn't drag home some less-than-healthy consequences.

From the perspective of understanding Consciousness -- which is my highest concern -- unhealthy consequences are irrelevant.

However, I am not oblivious to unhealthy consequences and of course I would like to minimize those for my followers.

Quote

Placing anything higher as the striving for Full Enlightenment is in my perspective choosing suffering, which is not a permanently sustainable strategy.

I do place understanding of reality above the transcending of suffering. That's a core feature of my style of spirituality. Understanding above everything else.

Everyone is free to pursue their own spiritual priorities. I have chosen mine and for it I have paid serious costs which you guys don't even know about. I have permanent scars and damage across my body from my pursuit of the highest understanding. And maybe one day it will kill me. If you understood the levels of danger I have toyed with, you would be horrified. You guys only know half of what I've done to gain my understanding.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

have permanent scars and damage across my body

On 5/8/2023 at 10:22 PM, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

Does 

Permanent damage? For example?

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Permanent damage? For example?

I am not going to talk about it now.

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Placing anything higher as the striving for Full Enlightenment

What is full enlightenment? Could you describe? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is full enlightenment? Could you describe? 

He already described it above. Read his long-ass post.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Water by the River

The question would be: Are you completely free of Buddhism and cite it as an interesting curiosity after having those realizations yourself, or is your mind subtly attached to it? the mind is very reluctant to let go. Are you able to really open up to reality, without any expectations? So you can have the hobby of reading Buddhism or whatever and contrasting it, but if Buddhism conditions your mind, then it's toxic.

Yes, I agree.

I do know when I look what I have read/studied/evaluated that I am not romantically in love with Buddhism and project a lot of stuff on it (which normally goes along being romantically in love with something).

I highly like, and consider at similiar impact on my path and practice:

• Nisargadatta
• Jac O'Keffee
• Francis Lucille
• Steven Wolinsky
• Coming Home, Lex Hixon (pretty much all traditions covered)
• Wilber (also at home and fine with all traditions)
• and quite a lot more...

And for me, "Buddhism" is so diversified that I consider at least three separate branches that are pretty much totally different meditation system, and also have pretty much very different philosophical approaches to point to the Absolute.

• Theravada
• Zen
• Tibetan Buddhism (especially Mahamudra and Dzogchen)

And that is just for the broad diversions, there are and have been endless sub-schools. For example see : "https://www.amazon.de/Mahayana-Buddhism-Doctrinal-Foundations-Religious/dp/0415356539".

And Buddhism is not only a spiritual meditation system, but also a religion, guiding millions of souls that are "not there yet" to go fully for transcendence& (meditation) practice, and yet do have a certain "soul-growth-task" in this life also, and deserve a good spiritual/value-map/system for that also. 

Honestly, I always tend to smile internally when somebody calls me Buddhist. Like being pointed to the beautiful love affair of a long time ago. But I guess it looks so from the outside the way I mostly write about Buddhist meditation system.

I do have my preferences concerning actual meditation systems (and not just philosophical schools/systems), and I have never seen anything in sophistication quite like the Mahamudra/Dzogchen-system. And even that benefits strongly from adding stuff from the teachers/sources mentioned above at certain stages of the practice.

In 100-200 years we will probably have something what John Churchill calls a "Planetery Dharma", uniting and integrating all efficient practices. Doing double-blind studies of what works and how fast. Combining that with psychedelics. Using new technical terms that are not culturally loaden, and removing all the mythic and cultural baggage. Until then, I try to be as integral as possible, and look for signs of the most efficients systems/practices that there are.

And what is also going on is the exploration of a truly Infinite Multiverse and Reality. What started with endeavours like the Supreme Array Sutra ( https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz ) and similiar stuff is now truly starting to take off our days. For everyone so inclined, see Jaques Vallee, Jürgen Ziewe, Andrew Gallimore, Rick Strassman and many more. And of course the magnificent exploration going on right here!

Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River ok, then full enlightenment is the complete dissolution of individuality and identification with absolute reality without limit. and according to you that eliminates suffering. Ok, agree (with suffering let's say, minimize it). let's see, you give great importance to thought, and you focus the process of enlightenment on mastering and understanding the source of thought. Maybe it's necessary without psychedelics. the source of thought is obvious: reality, like everything else. it is not necessary to stop the thought but to see through it, understanding what the thought is, and paying no attention to it. dissolve individuality completely and identify with infinity, ok, let's call it enlightenment. It is not the end of the matter, it is the beginning.

Before to this point you are insane and your life is a nightmare. after this point, freedom begins, you flow and understand. but the reality of what you are is unlimited, as you will perceive if you have really transcended the limits, then you will see the need to explore, to go deeper. Do you understand the pattern of existence that it means to be a human? the layers of code that make up this experience, what are they? everything opens, unfolds, and psychedelics are the key. psychedelics are a key into the code that this experience is. They are nothing foreign to you, they are you. and you don't use them? impossible. Limited. But of course, anyone have their preferences, and no one is the good one

Edited August 7, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

@Water by the River In your long post you explained some very elaborate techniques for taming thought. That's sorta your whole method.

My question to you is: Why make it so complicated? Why not just use something like the noting/labeling method for monitoring your thoughts? Seems to me like this would achieve the same thing with one simple method. I'm talking about something like Shinzen Young's method.

How is your method superior to the Shinzen Young method?

Edited August 7, 2023 by Leo Gura

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura Why is understanding consciousness your ultimate pursuit? shouldn't it be more of becoming consciousness?

[LSD-Rumi]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm talking about something like Shinzen Young's method.

How is your method superior to the Shinzen Young method?

I don't understand how noting and labeling things could benefit one spiritually, I prefer to just bathe in love and allow it to penetrate my body.