I Asked Peter Ralston About Psychedelics, Here Is His Response...

[UnbornTao]

You can count on Ralston to be incredibly grounded and honest even to the detriment of "sales" -- what people want to hear. He's a master and definitely not a teacher for newbies. You can't go wrong with a teacher such as Ramana either. These are very rare. What most of us are overlooking is that no one has become enlightened through psychedelics (and never will), and that he's coming from deep consciousness, not belief, preference and conjecture.

I got a glimpse while walking my dog. Quick, everyone start walking dogs and achieve enlightenment. That'd be a hell of a religion.

Edited August 7, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

You can say that but I don't know, again its assuming. It's a case of you don't know until you know and its seems you can never know where other teachers are really at, it's a lot of guessing. You can come with an innumerable amount of other reasons as to why Ralston chooses to teach. 

At this point, I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that there really is not authority to turn to. You can't know and can't ultimately depend on someone. It's nice and comforting to know that you can just follow a teacher and salvation is guaranteed (why not become a devotee to some guru?) But I guess that is where true spirituality descends into religion. So you can have guidance but in the end you're on your own and the only thing that matters is what you become directly conscious of...

BTW why do you put your tag at the end of the post?

No teacher is going to teach you anything. all they can do is inspire you to seek the truth. There comes a time when words are just words, they bring nothing but confusion. The truth is you, there is nothing else. In you is infinity, you have to open it. psychedelics are the tool

[Water by the River]

Just now, Anon212 said:

You can say that but I don't know, again its assuming. It's a case of you don't know until you know and its seems you can never know where other teachers are really at, it's a lot of guessing. You can come with an innumerable amount of other reasons as to why Ralston chooses to teach. 

At this point, I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that there really is not authority to turn to. You can't know and can't ultimately depend on someone. It's nice and comforting to know that you can just follow a teacher and salvation is guaranteed (why not become a devotee to some guru?) But I guess that is where true spirituality descends into religion. So you can have guidance but your in the end you're on your own and the only thing that matters is your direct consciousness...

BTW why do you put your tag at the end of the post?

Believe me, I know its utterly complex. I had the same problem for a long time. That is why I was really relieved when I started getting what they were all talking about. At the end, it takes Enlightenment to know what you are and to really confirm what Reality is. Nothing short will fully do. In the meantime: Heart and Brain go a long way:

Listen to your heart, and if your Intuition (which is a big part of your Karma) is good enough, it will lead you somewhere good. Look for love in the teacher, true compassion. But also use your brain. The Absolute is well defined, across the traditions. See Wilber, Nisargadatta, Ramana, Jac O'Keffee, Wolinsky, Balsekar for that.

If you understand what Wilber writes about Madyamaha, you can not go far off track. I think he has a good passage on that in Sex, Ecology, Spirituality. I will check where is main essay on that is tomorrow, and will post it. Good night everbody.

Bon voyage!

Selling Water by the River

PS:

6 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

BTW why do you put your tag at the end of the post?

 

On 6.5.2023 at 11:02 AM, Water by the River said:

Every time I write Selling Water by the River, it is to acknowledge by the way that what is being doing is

• Illusion.
  • But a nice one! What else is there to do? And since there is only appearance/illusion, there is no difference between reality and appearing illusion in some way. And Karma/cause effect fully works/holds, works like a clockwork, driven by infinite intelligence. Even if its only imagined...
• that "I" am "selling" something that is freely available to all (the Water of the River). Actually, there is only the Water of the River.
• That the water of the River is the Buddha Nature of every being, the Nothingness that is the essence of all of Reality. So nothing that could be superior to anything else at the end of the day...
• Actually, there are no others to safe. And yet, that is what tends to appear to happen normally. And should happen on a relative level, as it is in the nature of things...
  • And that is paradoxical from before the Gateless Gate, but not afterwards... It is only the True You manifesting in endless perspectives.... sometimes appearing (only appearing) confused in some mindstreams, and in some not. The "Core" never gets confused, since it is Nothing(-ness). It contains the confused or unconfused mind-stream arisings.

 

quote from:

 

 

[Anon212]

9 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You can count on Ralston to be incredibly grounded and honest even to the detriment of "sales"

That's what integrity is

[Leo Gura]

Don't get me wrong. I still regard Ralston as a genius teacher. His integrity and mastery is insane. He offers tons of value. However that does not mean he has the right view on every point. Especially regarding psychedelics and Love. Those are the two biggest flaws I found in his teachings. I still respect him a lot.

Let me be clear. Whenever I point out some deficiency with a spiritual teacher that does not mean I'm telling you not to study their work. Most spiritual teachers have a lot of value to offer regardless. Consider Teal Swan. I don't regard her as super woke but her videos offer a lot of helpful advice.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

who are , in your opinion, a really enlightened masters?  

Ok, here comes a wild mix:

Just now, Water by the River said:

Wilber, Nisargadatta, Ramana, Jac O'Keffee, Wolinsky, Balsekar

• Ralston.
• Then Daniel Brown, and his teacher Lungtok Tenpai Nyima (both deceased). But Daniel Brown left the "best of teachings" that Nyima gave him from the Bon Traditions of Tibetan Buddhism to translate into english. That is in my opinion the best system currently on the planet, highly sophisticated and overlooked by far compared to more simpler/robust teachings like Zen/Theravada and so on.
• Shardza Rinpoche, translated by Brown. I assume what kind of treasure that is will become clearer in the next decades and centuries. The Tibetans have done that for a Millenia with utmost determination.
• Shankara, crest jewel of discrimination.

And quite some more if you want to know. But that is already more than necessary for a quite complete, wholesome and integral path right up the mountain top. Sure, some side-peaks (relative stuff) are maybe better reached by other teachings/paths/methods, but these are side-peaks in the form/arising/appearance-realm. But for the Absolute, or the Mountain-Peak, that is enough.

Good Night

Water by the River

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Multiple Absolutes?

Or is there no Absolute in your view? Or several? 

One absolute.

But there are many, many different kinds of awakened consciousness. So the fact that there is one absolute means little. The question is, what kind of consciousness have you accessed and what have you understood about how consciousness works?

Different paths lead to very different kinds of awakenings. So then the question becomes, how do I reach the very highest, deepest, and strangest kinds?

Truth be told, some of my very deepest awakenings I have only been able to reach during sleep.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't get me wrong. I still regard Ralston as a genius teacher. His integrity and mastery is insane. He offers tons of value. However that does not mean he has the right view on every point. Especially regarding psychedelics and Love. Those are the two biggest flaws I found in his teachings. I still respect him a lot.

Let me be clear. Whenever I point out some deficiency with a spiritual teacher that does not mean I'm telling you not to study their work. Most spiritual teachers have a lot of value to offer regardless. Consider Teal Swan. I don't regard her as super woke but her videos offer a lot of helpful advice.

If you pointed out every teacher's flaws in a video, you will run of business quite soon. 

 

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Benton said:

But some of these teachers can help you you do things like access information energetically from Kailash. Or recreate or merge you energy body in a way so that it functions differently. Or imagining things in a way that other people can experience it.
These are the kind of understanding I mean. And its also why I say you are not conscious of what they are. It truly alters what you are capable of.

Perhaps they can. Could also turn into a wild goose chase. Hard to say. There exist too many spiritual techniques for one man to test them all. And even if he could there would still be no guarantee whether those methods would work for others.

I have been careful about how I invest my time because there are so many wild goose chases within spirituality.

I don't disagree that there are many spiritual skills and abilities which I have not developed and probably will never develop. Again, it comes down to what are your priorities? Developing spiritual powers has never been a priority for me. I don't deny that wild things are possible. There are many deep rabbit holes within mysticism which you could explore for several lifetimes. If you like to explore that stuff, have at it.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Bandman said:

@Leo Gura Why do you still put Peter Ralston above all these other teachers when he still believes in the brain? You have said only he an you are awake, so at least you see him as very “awakely” His argument that brain alteration can’t lead to direct consciousness is such a dumb one, since there is no brain to begin with which is limiting consciousness, right? Self-decption is also direct just like consciousness is, so why would I as God need an actual limited brain to imagine my own limitations? I’m imagining my own human limited life right now without any intermediaries. How else could it be?

1) He speaks of the brain in a relative fashion. I also speak of brains in the relative sense even though the brain is a construct of the mind.

2) Like I said, for a long time I had a strong bias towards his work. I may have erred on the side of being too charitable.

3) Ralston is a stange cat who's hard to fully figure out. He's clearly very conscious but there seem to be gaps too.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

@Leo Gura  you helped my whole life. For that I'm deeply grateful to you. I won't forget that, from my heart, thank you. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

@Leo Gura  you helped my whole life. For that I'm deeply grateful to you. I won't forget that, from my heart, thank you. 

Thanks, cheers.

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Ok, here comes a wild mix:

• Ralston.
• Then Daniel Brown, and his teacher Lungtok Tenpai Nyima (both deceased). But Daniel Brown left the "best of teachings" that Nyima gave him from the Bon Traditions of Tibetan Buddhism to translate into english. That is in my opinion the best system currently on the planet, highly sophisticated and overlooked by far compared to more simpler/robust teachings like Zen/Theravada and so on.
• Shardza Rinpoche, translated by Brown. I assume what kind of treasure that is will become clearer in the next decades and centuries. The Tibetans have done that for a Millenia with utmost determination.
• Shankara, crest jewel of discrimination.

And quite some more if you want to know. But that is already more than necessary for a quite complete, wholesome and integral path right up the mountain top. Sure, some side-peaks (relative stuff) are maybe better reached by other teachings/paths/methods, but these are side-peaks in the form/arising/appearance-realm. But for the Absolute, or the Mountain-Peak, that is enough.

Good Night

Water by the River

10 hours ago, Anon212 said:

 

Thanks, I'll check. Reading this thread, I ask myself a fundamental question: what is awakening? For me it is something absolutely concrete and real, beyond any doubt. it is something that I can access at will using drugs: it is the breaking of the apparent limitation and the manifestation of my true nature: the total infinity. the ultimate reality. the difference between this manifestation having occurred or not is fundamental. before I was asleep, then awake. the glass is filled, the prodigal son has returned. but this does not eliminate, as you say, suffering. It relativizes it, but if, for example, they isolate me in a room for 2 years, I will suffer. So, once you can open yourself to infinity totally at will, what else is there to awaken? that is the ultimate, there is nothing but infinity, and that is what I am. Could be more perception and understanding of the infinity, but the fundamental difference is : 

Have you ever really and completely opened  yourself to infinity and became infinite or not? 

And With this premise, I highly doubt that  Adyashanti, Spira, Shadguru, and many others are awake. Ralston I don't know. I would say neither. infinity is a bottomless well of love. an infinite flow in a dance of love. It is The Truth, and it is God, and it is what you always are. maybe ramana maharshi explains it more or less. many others like nisgardatta majaraj, i would say no. They are not fully awake, they have remained in the void

Edited August 5, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

And With this premise, I highly doubt that  Adyashanti, Spira, Shadguru, and many others are awake. Ralston I don't know. I would say neither. infinity is a bottomless well of love. an infinite flow in a dance of love. It is The Truth, and it is God, and it is what you always are. maybe ramana maharshi explains it more or less. many others like nisgardatta majaraj, i would say no. They are not fully awake, they have remained in the void

I have read pretty much all material from Adyashanti and Nisargadatta. Both certainly are fully enlightened, and for sure have not remained in the void. Reading Nisargadatta that is totally clear in many writings, but also at many places in the writings of Adyashanti that is also very clear.  Same with Ralston. 100% clear.

On Sadguru I can't tell. A few videos I have seen did not convince me at all, to say the least, but I could be wrong.

2 signs that what you call Infinity is not the final end of the story: 

1) you can't access it stably in daily life and

2) you would be able to tell concerning Adyashanti, Spira and Nisargadatta.

If its Ultimate Reality or the Absolute, it HAS to be always here, and HAS to be always accessible once realized. Everything else is just a state that is once there, and then poof gone, no more accessible. IT is always right here.

Sorry that I am so direct. From all I have seen, psychedelics lead "there" and to what you describe, but not beyond.

Water by the River

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

One absolute.

But there are many, many different kinds of awakened consciousness. So the fact that there is one absolute means little. The question is, what kind of consciousness have you accessed and what have you understood about how consciousness works?

Different paths lead to very different kinds of awakenings. So then the question becomes, how do I reach the very highest, deepest, and strangest kinds?

Truth be told, some of my very deepest awakenings I have only been able to reach during sleep.

Same here, but rather during o.b.e's

Edited August 5, 2023 by MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

Sadhguru is definitely and clearly awake. He's a genetic freak. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

If its Ultimate Reality or the Absolute, it HAS to be always here

Of course it's always here. It's everything. But that doesn't say anything about how conscious you are.

[Water by the River]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course it's always here. It's everything. But that doesn't say anything about how conscious you are.

But if one can access the Absolute at will (the visual field as boundless timeless infinite nondual mere appearance), switch off the self-contraction/separate-self (and its suffering included) at will if it dares to raise its ugly head again, and STAY in that Ultimate Impersonal Reality... that says something about (to use your words) how conscious "one" is.

Well, you can turn it around it all the ways you want. The fact that Ultimate Reality is not stable accessible and suffering continues is the hallmark of the psychedelic-afficionados, from all I have seen so far.

How come Infinitely intelligent Reality doesn't let the psychedelic afficionado rest blissfully in True Nature? Why does suffering not stop in that case? Because Infinitely Intelligent Ultimate Reality doesn't want that (nor could it, even if "it" wanted) a not fully transcended ego/separate-self stays there blissed out and proclaims "that is the highest". IT is IMPERSONAL Infinite Consciousness. With Impersonal in bold letters. And until that is delivered by fully transcending and killing the separate-self-arisings in normal life, there is practice of transcedence and "dying to the lower identites" to be done. The suffering is what pulls a separate-self back to its True Nature, Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, or Reality itself (including the manifest show in a nondual way).

Honestly, if there ever has been one big warning sign dangling on top of all of that proclaimed "highest Awakeninsg n+1", it is what described in the paragraph above. Suffering continues. And Reality will make you suffer until you get that.

Cruel game? Not really, no one gets left behind halfway up the mountain, in the suffering of the claws of the self-contraction of the separate-self, until that is fully transcended and gone. And going exploring the Multiverse in ever "higher" Awakenings ."Higher" into what? The Absolute can not be higher or lower, only form/manifestation/appearance/arisings WITHIN IT. So its higher Awakenings into ever more relative appearing arisings, not the Absolute. And that  will just prolong that suffering.

Please prove me wrong. If you don't shut down the show here, we all are in the prime seats to watch it.

Anyway, bon voyage!

Water by the River

Edited August 5, 2023 by Water by the River

[Javfly33]

29 minutes ago, MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI said:

Sadhguru is definitely and clearly awake. He's a genetic freak. 

The genetic freak started doing yoga with 12 years old from a guru of his town

What was I doing with 12 years old? I don't know about you but I was just starting frying my brains out with videogames, porn, and next years drinking and smoking as any of my peers on school.

See, there is no question that some people by luck get born in certain ambience that makes them favourable for spiritual purposes, but also, if one does not do the right things, you can't neither expect to get the results. 

I am not saying that Sahdguru was not born in a privileged ambience, but saying that it is a genetic freak assumes he has something in their brain that you do not have. This is deeply hurtful and damaging for anyone that wants to do anything of value in this work.

And the word doesn't even make sense. The skill that influences your state of consciousness or Awakening doesn't have anything to do with genes lmao

We getting to a preposterous level of creating and projecting differences on our minds, we starting to attribute memory (genes) to consciousness? Really? 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

How come Infinitely intelligent Reality doesn't let the psychedelic afficionado rest blissfully in True Nature? Why does suffering not stop in that case? Because Infinitely Intelligent Ultimate Reality doesn't want that (nor could it, even if "it" wanted) a not fully transcended ego/separate-self stays there blissed out and proclaims "that is the highest". IT is IMPERSONAL Infinite Consciousness. With Impersonal in bold letters. And until that is delivered by fully transcending and killing the separate-self-arisings in normal life, there is practice of transcedence and "dying to the lower identites" to be done. The suffering is what pulls a separate-self back to its True Nature, Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, or Reality itself (including the manifest show in a nondual way).

Honestly, if there ever has been one big warning sign dangling on top of all of that proclaimed "highest Awakeninsg n+1", it is what described in the paragraph above. Suffering continues. And Reality will make you suffer until you get that.

Of course psychedelics do not produce that because that if a function of training.

What psychedelics produce is: 1) insane levels of consciousness which you will never ever naturally reach, 2) and insight.

I have never claimed that psychedelics result in the end of suffering.

All traditional spiritual techniques are about training your body and mind. Psychedelics skip all of that to take you to insane levels of consciousness and back. You cannot get the benefits of training without training. HOWEVER, just because you do a lot of training does not mean that you have accessed very high consciousness nor understand what consciousness is.

So we're talking about two independent axes here. People love to confuse the two, which leads to all sorts of problems and arguments.

The thing that I am vocal about it that people who do lots of training assume that that's all there to this work. But there is a whole other dimension which no amount of training can reach. You can train yourself for 40 years and you will still never reach levels of consciousness which I have reached. This does not mean I'm better trained than you or whatever you value like bliss, siddhis, or the end of suffering. I have never claimed such things because I have not even tried to train them seriously.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura