I Asked Peter Ralston About Psychedelics, Here Is His Response...

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

 

"Enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true directly conscious of what's true like what you are or what existence is"

And that includes by definition the infinite potential for any possible form/appearance, arising in Absolute Reality.

So what is higher and better, or more valueable? What is worth of ones ultimate spiritual concern? Understanding ever more form/appearance (n+1 forever), or understanding once and for all the Absolute Nature of ones True Self and Reality itself? And stabilizing in that realization, that becomes always available once having realized it?

Not knowing ones True Nature is technically called Ignorance in many traditions, and leads to suffering. Waking up to ones True Nature ends the suffering.

Water by the River

3 hours ago, OBEler said:

 

The realization with psychedelics is exactly same valuable that the realization without psychedelics. if you realize your true nature, you will realize that there is no difference between psychedelics or anything else, everything is reality, everything is you.

[Jodistrict]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The realization with psychedelics is exactly same valuable that the realization without psychedelics. if you realize your true nature, you will realize that there is no difference between psychedelics or anything else, everything is reality, everything is you.

But is the intense concentration needed to see the self possible in an intoxicated state?  

[Oppositionless]

lets see

meditation: produces peak experiences, insights from peak experiences transfer into daily life after the peak ends

psychedelics: produce peak experiences, somehow insights from peak experiences don’t translate into daily life 

yeah not buying it lol. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Oppositionless

[Breakingthewall]

35 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

But is the intense concentration needed to see the self possible in an intoxicated state?  

the substance that breaks the limits and makes you realize infinity is 5 meo. It can also happen with other substances, meditating or spontaneously, but 5meo promotes this specially.  You also have to have a mental disposition to abandon the structures, to let go of everything. It is not an easy process, you have to do it many times and it is intimidating. then it works, you do it, you realize the infinite and you are the infinite. then in a sober state you are one step away from fully realizing infinity, and you spontaneously open yourself to that state. a little weed, lsd, meditation, can help. realizing infinity is only the beginning of understanding reality, not the end. there is no such thing as enlightenment or elimination of suffering. suffering is a mechanism of evolution of life. there will always be suffering as long as you are alive. there is no problem with suffering

Edited August 2, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Oppositionless]

@Breakingthewall well said . You wouldn’t have incarnated as a human if you didn’t want the full human experience

[Chefkuh]

Iam wondering why is he not even trying the toad, because he said to me that he never did toad juice.

 

at least try to be sure that it doesn’t, trying dosent hurt or?

[Hojo]

If every teacher says that meditation is better wouldnt you look at it and take it seriously. how can you know that you are not just falling into a trap. How do you know you arent only temporarily boosting your consciousness without even understanding how you are doing it.

How can you be a spiritually genetic freak I dont see how that makes sense

Edited August 3, 2023 by Hojo

[Carl-Richard]

Neither psychedelics, nor meditation, produce enlightenment. The spiritual process does. The dissolving of attachments does.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Buck Edwards]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Neither psychedelics, nor meditation, produce enlightenment. The spiritual process does. The dissolving of attachments does.

What spiritual process? What are you referring to? 

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

realizing infinity is only the beginning of understanding reality, not the end. there is no such thing as enlightenment or elimination of suffering. suffering is a mechanism of evolution of life. there will always be suffering as long as you are alive. there is no problem with suffering

If you want to believe that you cut yourself off from the possibility of the end of suffering. That the end of suffering is possible is the message from all Wisdom Traditions, at all times, from all cultures. A universal message that you are declaring non-existant.

Please excuse that I write that so directly.

Why do you not stay agnostic on that topic until you have the Enlightenment that all traditions at all times in all cultures point to? On what they point to is universal. Denying or doubting that possibility is denying the Ultimate Potential of the Human Spiritual Potential. It is nothing else than denying your True Nature, denying the path that leads to it, with all consequences that entails.

Water by the River

[Yimpa]

13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Sincerity Haha I was about to ask: aren't there a million threads about that already? ?

Yes, but not enough about Peter Pan

[Yimpa]

 

[Razard86]

15 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Basically what he’s saying is to stop offloading Consciousness onto something outside of Yourself. Whatever method brings you closer to Truth, use it, but don’t claim that something outside of YOU is responsible for direct experience.

Also,  spoiler alert: He is You 

He is both right and wrong in what he says. Drugs alter experience, the easiest way to learn or awaken to something is to create a change in experience!!! For example...you won't know what sex is, until you have a front view personal eye to eye experience of it!!! That experience WILL create a state change, and thus will create a sexual enlightenment which is you waking up to what sex ACTUALLY is and not what you have been told.

I love Peter Ralston but he is splitting hairs!!! Drugs DO wake up up, also....your entire body is a DRUG FACTORY!!!! Sex is a drug....it causes your body to release specific compounds which create a specific sensual experience. Psychedelics....are no different than they cause your body to release specific compounds that will alter your reality.

Notice how Leo never said take them alone, he tells you to first deconstruct your mind and use them as a TOOL!!!! When used in conjunction with Spiritual Practices....THERE IS NOTHING MORE POWERFUL THAN PSYCHEDELICS!!! NOTHING!!!! Anyone who disputes this doesn't even understand what Psychedelics are doing. Psychedelics tell your body....that it is dying...and you basically simulate what death will be for you. 

One of the things that Leo tells you is to test Reality's bluff. Reality tells you from your first memory of your childhood that you can die. Psychedelics are one of the many ways you can test this concept and discover what death is!!!

How far has Peter Ralston tested and exposed himself to death?

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

If you want to believe that you cut yourself off from the possibility of the end of suffering. That the end of suffering is possible is the message from all Wisdom Traditions, at all times, from all cultures. A universal message that you are declaring non-existant.

Please excuse that I write that so directly.

Why do you not stay agnostic on that topic until you have the Enlightenment that all traditions at all times in all cultures point to? On what they point to is universal. Denying or doubting that possibility is denying the Ultimate Potential of the Human Spiritual Potential. It is nothing else than denying your True Nature, denying the path that leads to it, with all consequences that entails.

Water by the River

Imagine that they lock you in a cell and tell you that in one week you will be subjected to the most horrible tortures for another whole week. Wouldn't there be psychological suffering? of course. any of those enlightened would suffer, and it is completely normal and legitimate. it is a natural process. You, as a human, have a self-protection device that impels you to escape from those situations. it does so through a sensation that we perceive as suffering. there is no problem with that, it is something natural.

And not all spiritual traditions preach the end of suffering, only one does: the Buddhist. Buddhism is an anti-life religion. consider life as a curse from which we must escape, stop the wheel of reincarnations, and thus escape from what they fear so much: the suffering. it is a negative religion. focuses on nothingness, flees from everything.(btw, I don't say that because Leo preach against Buddhism, it's a logical conclusion, reading a bit about it) Yes, there are some cases of teachers who have a more complete understanding, but in general it is fear and negativity, the desire to flee from suffering. many say: I am enlightened. from their homes in rich countries with full medical attention, and all their needs covered. you have to accept suffering, it is part of what it is to be human. wanting to erase it is castrating your humanity, fear. We could be deeply awake and suffer same time, accepting or suffering without problem.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Imagine that they lock you in a cell and tell you that in one week you will be subjected to the most horrible tortures for another whole week. Wouldn't there be psychological suffering? of course. any of those enlightened would suffer, and it is completely normal and legitimate. it is a natural process. You, as a human, have a self-protection device that impels you to escape from those situations. it does so through a sensation that we perceive as suffering. there is no problem with that, it is something natural.

If such a situation can't be avoided, one better is deeply rooted in ones nature. 

That one here even shut down one of the most horrible physical pains possible. Burning alive, and didn't even flinch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức

Just a humble question: Why not keep that topic OPEN until you can say you are enlightened beyond any possible doubt? Just staying agnostic concerning that topic?

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

And not all spiritual traditions preach the end of suffering, only one does: the Buddhist.

That is incorrect. All of them (the mystical traditions) teach some form of liberation and Enlightenment, or the end of psychological suffering.

For example:

Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha

 

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Buddhism is an anti-life religion. consider life as a curse from which we must escape, stop the wheel of reincarnations, and thus escape from what they fear so much: the suffering. it is a negative religion. focuses on nothingness, flees from everything.

That may be true for some very early form of Buddhism, but that is not where Mahayana and especially Tantric Buddhism ended. It is very much pro life, pro-manifestation and living life, and nondual:

https://www.shambhala.com/historical-introduction-excerpt-integral-buddhism/

 

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

 We could be deeply awake and suffer same time, accepting or suffering without problem.

Maybe we just have a different definition of terms. I agree with the statement above, as long as suffering is defined not psychological suffering/psychological resistance on top of the suffering that happens. Like for example feeling sad if something bad happens. But a open sadness with open heart, not a closed heart of the ego/self-contraction, or resistance to what is. Ken Wilber has a nice article on that in One Taste:

 

Water by the River

[UnbornTao]

We must confess that most, if not all of us are coming from ignorance, so I'm gonna share some worthless opinions and conjectures based on hearsay.

Enlightenment can't come about as the result of a process. It is direct. There's nothing you can do that will bring it out, except becoming conscious now. You can focus on a question, aka contemplate. But this is meant to focus the mind, no method can possibly produce consciousness.

And a metaphor: Could you wake up from a dream by drinking coffee within the dream?

Edited August 3, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Buck Edwards]

@Carl-Richard @UnbornTao you both are confusing me. One says spiritual process. The other says direct. How does enlightenment happen? I'm screwed at this point. Mindfuck. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

What spiritual process? What are you referring to? 

The spiritual process is a process of unwinding your attachments to your human self, and it's not easy to map out in any reductionistic fashion, but it probably correlates with certain behaviors. You can meditate with the intention of reducing stress and nothing else, and you'll probably be very unlikely to become enlightened. You can take psychedelics with the intention of having fun with friends, and you'll probably be very unlikely to become enlightened. So things like intention, mindset, knowledge and drive probably matter. You can also meditate or take psychedelics and feel like it's not working and that it's outside of your control. So things like genes, personality and trauma probably also matter. Why some people have a harder time becoming enlightened than others is a good research question.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

@Carl-Richard @UnbornTao you both are confusing me. One says spiritual process. The other says direct. How does enlightenment happen? I'm screwed at this point. Mindfuck. 

It's both. It's a process in the sense that it probably correlates with certain behaviors, but it's also not a process in the sense that you can't pinpoint the exact point where enlightenment occurs.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

as long as suffering is defined not psychological suffering/psychological resistance on top of the suffering that happens.

physical or psychological suffering are ultimately the same, they are a sensation destined to want to avoid a certain situation, or to pursue a certain situation. It is a biological survival mechanism. The fact of being a person who is living a dual experience means that you are functioning in a limited state of consciousness, and one of its limits is suffering. When we talk about awakening we talk about breaking those limits, and therefore breaking suffering, but it is only possible to do this in a punctual and temporary way since you are still a human living a dual experience. this implies suffering and wanting to escape from it is to deny your will to live this dual experience. Obviously, if you are open to your true nature, you will easily endure suffering, but it will continue to exist as long as you are alive. The thing about the monk who is burned alive does not mean enlightenment, it means detachment and renunciation. Watch the fight between Evander Holyfield and Riddick Bowe. do you think they are enlightened? I would say no, and they endure something seemingly impossible