Why Leave The Park?

[jip]

Hey,

I don't really get how people who have read Jed McKenna books are still excited about this enlightenment stuff. For those who haven't read it, he clearly points out that:

-enlightenment a painful "process"

-is not about finding some cool truth, but the destroying of all illusion until only truth is left

-is as radical as committing suicide

-is life negative, pointless and should only be pursued by those who have no other options

-has nothing to do with becoming a better person, becoming happier or raising consciousness

-has nothing to do with love, compassion, bliss or heaven on earth

I'll let the guy speak for himself because his analogies are ingenious:

"Well, I wouldn't want to give the impression that it's almost pointless. It's perfectly pointless. Awakening to your true nature is like dying; it's a certainty, inevitable. You're going to get there no matter what you do, so why rush? Enjoy your life, it's free. Cosmic Consciousness and Altered States and Universal Mind are names of rides in this vast and fascinating dualistic amusement park. So are Poverty and Disease and Despair. Enlightenment though, is not another ride. Enlightenment means leaving the park altogether, but why leave the park? In the park you can be a saint or a yogi or a billionaire or a world leader or a warlord. Be good, be evil. Happiness, misery, bliss, agony, victory, defeat, it's all here. What's the big rush? When the time comes to leave the park you'll know and you'll go, but there's certainly nothing to be gained by it."

 

"From the U-Rex perspective, "I say, U-Rex is obviously real reality and C-Rex is obviously ridiculous. Also, C-Rex has no upside. There's nothing in its favor, it doesn't go anywhere. Truth is a booby-prize. It doesn't do any good or make anything better. It doesn't provide meaning, it strips meaning away. It takes all the amusement out of the amusement park; no meaning, no significance to anything, no reason to get out of bed in the morning. C-Rex brings nothing to the table, whereas U-Rex creates the illusion of meaning. We must have the context U-Rex provides. Even though it's false, it's still context."

"So the lie is better than the truth, you are saying."

"Sure. The truth might set you free, but then you find yourself standing in an endless parking lot outside the amusement park wondering why you're out, and how to get back in. Truth has nothing to recommend it except that it's true. U-Rex has everything to recommend it except that it's false."

 

"Me, I don't think so. I know Maya pretty well and i don't see her ever losing more than the occasional stray. A species-wide transformation is a pretty idea, but we have little cause for optimism and plenty for pessimism. It's nice to think we could elevate ourselves, and it's fun to dabble in theoretical scenarios, but the reality is that man will never evolve or transcend or develop beyond his past and present level. If that sounds like a bad thing to us, if Maya sounds like a force of evil, if the terms by which man lives on this planet seem to oppressive or restrictive, then we might do well to take a step back and reevaluate the situation. Where are we? What is this place? Is it a prison to be despised or an amusement park to be enjoyed? Is ego a hideous affliction? Or is it simply the vehicle that allows us to come out and play? When the choice is between no-self and false-self, false-self start looking pretty good and despising and demonizing it starts to seem pretty ungrateful."

This demonizing of ego, which i see a lot here, seems to me very ironically, just an ego game

Now sure he is exaggerating a bit, there are other perspectives and Jed McKenna is off course not the ultimate authority on enlightenment(although i have little doubt that he is enlightened), and i'm sure Truth can be a very great thing for people, but i really doubt whether enlightenment is something desirable for everyone, when the enlightened guy himself states that it's life-negative.

[Neo]

Do you remember when Cypher secretly betrayed Morpheus to Agent Smith in exchange for a return to a comfortable life within the Matrix? Did you not wonder how someone could choose to live a false life after knowing the truth?

[Neo]

It has been said that you really must want enlightenment, although your comment there is more on the side of "why bother wanting it, only if you have a worthless life." If I miss interpret I'm sorry.

[Ayla]

"Throw it all in the fire"

 

 

[jjer94]

Yes, this is a very common trap that people get into after reading Jed's books. He's very eloquent with his words, which makes it that much worse. In his books, he uses his own life circumstances as an example of post-enlightenment. He considers himself akin to a vampire, unable to connect with humans anymore, vagabonding around, doing a whole lot of nothing besides writing the books. Also, he talks about what he did to arrive at Truth: he quit his job, cut all ties with friends and family, and holed himself up in a secluded house for two years. In the second book, he uses Julie as a prime example of someone in the process. She's basically psychotic, holed up in a cabin writing for hours and hours on end, living on energy bars. In his books, Jed almost makes it seem like you have to be a raving lunatic to become enlightened. 

What most people don't get is that this is just a perspective. While Jed's cut-all-ties-be-depressed method is straight to the point, it's not the only way to become enlightened. There is no one path you have to take to become enlightened. There are so many ways to see through illusions. You don't have to cut all ties and be depressed to become enlightened, although being monomaniacal does accelerate the process.

I actually did that for a while last summer. I holed myself up in my apartment, lost all of my friends except for one who I barely talked to. I avoided my parents and my brothers at all costs. I was even considering dropping out of college and running away so nobody would ever find me. I sat in my room, writing and contemplating for hours and hours on end, expecting to get somewhere. My breaks consisted of hour-long bike rides. I had several awakenings from doing this, but I was also doing it out of fear. I was running away from social interaction because of my long-held social fears, and I was using the Spiritual Autolysis/Contemplation as an excuse to avoid everyone. I was using Jed's books as a way to entrench myself further in ego, to don the "hermit-that's-too-deep-for-everyone" costume. That's another trap to watch out for if you're taking the monomaniacal path. 

Yes, the process to enlightenment is inherently painful. It feels like parts of you are dying every time you see through your beliefs. And in a way, it is a sort of slow dying. Fundamentally, it is pointless, but so is everything else. I would consider enlightenment itself life-negative since you're waking up from the dream. However, I would consider post-enlightenment life-affirming.

Post-enlightenment is where you realize you have nowhere to go except for back in the dream. That's where "the mountain becomes a mountain again." That's where you can't help but love and embrace everything (even if you're a hermit), the good and the bad, because you are all of it. That's where flow, manifestation, and effortless functioning comes in. That's where work becomes play. That's where you're no longer afraid of anything or concealing any parts of your life. That's where the "authentic self" begins to sprout, since you've released the illusion of control. 

Yes, technically, you can stop at the "I AM" (Human Adulthood - waking up in the dream) and have those same benefits. But when I stopped at H/A, I had an irresistible nagging to go even further. I can imagine anyone stopping at H/A would feel the same way. 

I've written a lot already, and I could go on even more on this topic, but I just want to end with a disclaimer. I am not saying Jed's books are awful. In fact, I found them to be the most useful and entertaining books for me on the journey, and I would suggest any serious seekers to read them. I am only saying, be careful about taking his or any other spiritual teacher's (OR MY) words too seriously and copying what he does.

"When you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

Edited February 14, 2016 by jjer94

[jjer94]

Quote

How would you recognize yourself to be in H/A phase?

In my opinion, the way you know you're in H/A is if you've had a grounded experience that you are not the ego. You may have also found the "I AM," which is that sentient emptiness that pervades sense perceptions. 

Here's Jed's benchmark: "If you are free to do or not do anything you feel like, then you have reached H/A. Which you are anyways, but keep lying to yourself that you are not."

Quote

I've just watched Shinzen short interview where he says about how he became a monk where he points out exactly how profound impact death of his very intelligent teacher who burned in flames had on him (end of the video)

It's interesting you mention death, because I've noticed a general trend with seekers: the most serious ones have been in the closest contact with death. 

Edited February 14, 2016 by jjer94

[Leo Gura]

Jed is an oddball guy. Don't take his hysterics too seriously. His books are way over-dramatized and limited in perspective. He is appealing to a particular kind of audience.

If you ever get even a glimpse of truth, it will be the most beautiful thing you've seen in your life. It's better than sex, food, drugs, money, or any other stupid thing that people devote their lives to.

Is enlightenment for everyone? No, because most people are just too damn ignorant to be helped. But if by magic they were able to experience enlightenment, they would never want to go back to their old hellish existence.

[Aldo Marchand]

@Leo Gura

@jip

Enlightenment envolves self-sacrifice. If your live only gravitating aroung your ego you will never reach ilumination or turquoise.

I resume the ultimate process in discipline, knowledge, focus, ego control and working for the humanity with your lifetime instead 

of taking care only about the own ass.

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Jed is an oddball guy. Don't take his hysterics too seriously. His books are way over-dramatized and limited in perspective. He is appealing to a particular kind of audience.

If you ever get even a glimpse of truth, it will be the most beautiful thing you've seen in your life. It's better than sex, food, drugs, money, or any other stupid thing that people devote their lives to.

Is enlightenment for everyone? No, because most people are just too damn ignorant to be helped. But if by magic they were able to experience enlightenment, they would never want to go back to their old hellish existence.

 

[ayokolomo]

I may be immature in my approach, but the truth is I am having way too much fun in the park!

[Mulky]

I don't really think many people have become enlightened for real, like Ramana, or Tolle.  I think alot of teachers have had tastes of enlightenment and gone through their experiences, and not always given the best advice.   Even some of the most highly reguarded teachers, still seem to have a very obvious ego, although only they know for sure.  It's extremely easy to make progress on this path when you have absolutely nothing, and you can easily let go of everything. If you can't let go of absolutely everything, it will be very hard, you can feel it in your body.  Just because a guy knows alot about pursuing enlightenment, has experienced the enlightened state, etc, means he's qualified to give good advice.   Maybe theres pain involved in this path, but I guarantee the other way is complete pain by comparison. 

[Ludwig]

Like any other teacher, one should not take Jed McKenna literally. From a self perspective the things Jed describes can be quite accurate. They are great warnings and pointers on the way. Nothing more nothing less.

[A way to Actualize]

21 hours ago, jip said:

enlightenment a painful "process"

-is not about finding some cool truth, but the destroying of all illusion until only truth is left

-is as radical as committing suicide

-is life negative, pointless and should only be pursued by those who have no other options

-has nothing to do with becoming a better person, becoming happier or raising consciousness

-has nothing to do with love, compassion, bliss or heaven on earth

these things are solved with the teaching of self-love. It seems that I have been stressing this guy in this forum, but he is so radically different than every other teacher (and he is funny). It covers all those points.

But your post is really genius in a way. Sometmes I ask myself if I have not missed anything before going further.

[jip]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Jed is an oddball guy. Don't take his hysterics too seriously. His books are way over-dramatized and limited in perspective. He is appealing to a particular kind of audience.

If you ever get even a glimpse of truth, it will be the most beautiful thing you've seen in your life. It's better than sex, food, drugs, money, or any other stupid thing that people devote their lives to.

Is enlightenment for everyone? No, because most people are just too damn ignorant to be helped. But if by magic they were able to experience enlightenment, they would never want to go back to their old hellish existence.

Sure, it's only one perspective but I have not found any relatable enlightened people yet who talk about this enlightenment stuff as though it is the best thing ever like you do. And he's not talking about a glimpse of truth, but the permanent deal. How are you so sure it is that great? I think jed would be the first one to say if it really were.  And even if it is, why rush it? Why not just play the game of duality for the little time we can? It's a pretty cool game; you can pretend like you are a separate entity with free will, create the illusion of meaning etc. There will be plenty of time left to enjoy the abiding non-dual awareness after the body's death i guess

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jip said:

How are you so sure it is that great?

If you rely on other people to convince you then it will never work.   Even if someone convinces you it will be an idea that you bought into.

You have to "look" at it,  with honesty (honest to yourself).  As Leo has pointed out in one of his videos - we lie to ourselves all the time.  So we remain in ignorance, which means that we do not really know anything but a dream world of consciousness.  

The conditioned mind is the "park".  It is fake.   It doesn't even exist. 

And if the park doesn't exist then who is playing in something that doesn't exist?

Joy

 

[Galyna]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Jed is an oddball guy. Don't take his hysterics too seriously. His books are way over-dramatized and limited in perspective. He is appealing to a particular kind of audience.

If you ever get even a glimpse of truth, it will be the most beautiful thing you've seen in your life. It's better than sex, food, drugs, money, or any other stupid thing that people devote their lives to.

Is enlightenment for everyone? No, because most people are just too damn ignorant to be helped. But if by magic they were able to experience enlightenment, they would never want to go back to their old hellish existence.

Once I was told by the person, who had experience to become Unity, experience in meditations , that it is thousands of times more pleasant than any orgasm on Earth.

[Galyna]

Guys, we have to understand one IMPORTANT THING here! 

It is not up to YOU to stay or leave the park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Understanding that we are not really in control is a huge step forward. If you want to stay in the park, stay in the park, do not kid yourself, you should not force yourself. If you feel like you want to enjoy life, go and enjoy it, just be honest and do not cry AFTERWORDS. Take the responsibility for your chose. Be honest. 

In the long run, there is no such thing as "right decision".

[Galyna]

3 hours ago, jip said:

Sure, it's only one perspective but I have not found any relatable enlightened people yet who talk about this enlightenment stuff as though it is the best thing ever like you do. And he's not talking about a glimpse of truth, but the permanent deal. How are you so sure it is that great? I think jed would be the first one to say if it really were.  And even if it is, why rush it? Why not just play the game of duality for the little time we can? It's a pretty cool game; you can pretend like you are a separate entity with free will, create the illusion of meaning etc. There will be plenty of time left to enjoy the abiding non-dual awareness after the body's death i guess

"Why not just play the game of duality for the little time we can?"

You do not really know how much time you have for playing. Might be one year, might be 50 years. 

 

"There will be plenty of time left to enjoy the abiding non-dual awareness after the body's death i guess"

Again, you do not know what  is there after you die. Time is an illusion, you is just illusion, who would be pursing this after death?

[Emerald]

Enlightenment is just as pointless as non-enlightenment in the grand scheme of things. But looking for a point is only a mechanism of the human lens. But enlightenment is optimum happiness and peace of mind. Since everyone's actions are trying to lead them to happiness anyway, enlightenment is the most worthwhile thing to pursue. This isn't because it confers value upon a person or that i will make your personhood more enduring or that it will solve all your problems. It's worthwhile because you will be truly free for the rest of your life. Fear of death causes much of our suffering. Enlightenment is freedom from all fear of mortality and change, because you have nothing to lose but a concept. From this comes clarity and equanimity that no one is capable of from the egoic perspective. It is the freedom from self-lies and illusions of separateness. It is ultimate receptivity to love. From my experience, I can't imagine that a nihilist is truly enlightened. Those two perspectives seem like polar opposites to me.

[jjer94]

Quote

From my experience, I can't imagine that a nihilist is truly enlightened. Those two perspectives seem like polar opposites to me.

I think what you may be confused about are the negative connotations that come along with nihilism. Critics of nihilism often say, "Well, everything is meaningless, doesn't that mean I should kill myself?" When that is an interpretive overlay to nihilism. Yes, life is meaningless, but the fact that life is meaningless has no meaning. Life just is. 

Nihilism and enlightenment are more closely related than you think. Basic nihilism is just the belief that life is meaningless, and part of enlightenment is the experiential realization of this. Nihilism is a perspective. Enlightenment is not a perspective, but rather, the removal of all perspectives so that Truth remains. 

[jip]

8 hours ago, Pinocchio said:

Or maybe you'll just come back as another Jip who continues making the same excuses

You can keep arguing indefinitely against what you don't want, but at some point you're gonna have to find out what you do want, or for all your talk about how cool this game is you will still be miserable.

I feel kinda twisted about it to be honest. I've listened to Leo's enlightenment faqs 10-15 times so the idea that enlightenment is the best thing since sliced bread and everyone should become enlightened is pretty much drilled into my mind, but i also find Jeds arguments for not leaving the park very convincing, for he has been both in and out the park. Other authors like Peter Ralston and Ken Wilber don't really adres this whole issue, and only say that it will "liberate" you. Adyashanti also says the same but also states clearly that truth has nothing to do with becoming better or happier.  

 

7 hours ago, Galyna said:

Once I was told by the person, who had experience to become Unity, experience in meditations , that it is thousands of times more pleasant than any orgasm on Earth.

Unity Consiousness is not the same as Truth Realization/Enlightenment...

6 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

But enlightenment is optimum happiness and peace of mind. Since everyone's actions are trying to lead them to happiness anyway

Leo said the same in some of his videos but i don't know if thats true. I see happiness more like air; you only really care about it when you don't have it.

 

By the way, how far are you guys willing to take this enlightenment shit? If for example, your mom got raped and killed in a brutal way, or if you heard today that you only got a couple days left to live, would you still care about enlightenment? Would you say: "oh nevermind, death is just an illusion created by the mind"?

Just curious, feel free to answer whatever's on your mind.