The problem of evil according to the Quran

[Someone here]

A common response that I have heard to the problem of evil essentially boils down to the idea that it is impossible for god to create a world that contains no evil or suffering that also has free human beings. In order for people to be free.. they need a choice to do good or bad... and they also need to reap what they sow.

I don’t think this logic is totally flawed   but I also don’t think that the idea at the core of the argument accurately represents the world we live in . There are plenty of people who suffer and die in natural disasters or from diseases..which have nothing to do with the moral or immoral actions of human beings. So what's up with that ?

Well..First realize what exactly Is God up to ? What is his purpose?  To answer this question you also have to answer the question "what is God " first and foremost.  

God is infinite being.  The only purpose of an infinite being is to spawn things into existence endlessly. Its just pure infinite creativity. That's what God is . 

What God is up to is simply the maximumization (I'm not sure if my spelling of this word is correct lol) of creatures  .so he creates all kinds of diseases..pains ..sorrows..loss ..destruction..etc . Because according to the Sufi tradition...everything was pure potential in gods  mind .and God's mercy for his creation is to give them actual existence instead of remaining as pure potential.  And so that's what God did . He gave everything its appropriate form.

There is a verse in the Quran which says: "Our Lord is He who gave each thing its form and then guided it". Chapter 20 .verse 5.

So according to the Quran God gave evey possible form it's existence . That's why he created  evil.  Because without evil ..God can't be who he truly is ...God can't be God. 

Feel free to ask any questions 

 

[Ayham]

I think there could be two opinions about the why of evil 

1. If you are good without your free will, you are not truly good because you don't have any other choice, freewill is what distinguishes real good from real evil, and this applies to everything like, you can't be non violent if you aren't capable of violence or if you are weak, etc.

2. I like this one more, basically the idea is that evil is a human projection, there's nothing that says killing is evil, or rape, or assault, or harm, or whatever, we created these ideas of good and evil, which is good since it helps us at a human level, but at an absolute level, it's just an illusion and everything is neutral (neither good or evil) 

[Holykael]

Lol at the idea that god is trying to make anyone free by giving people a completely useless choice and then caging them in an environment with little freedom. Everything is predestined anyway. There's actually 0 freedom so no one is actually good or evil. God is the only one who can be good or evil and he's plenty evil which taints any goodness.

[Hojo]

In order for God to exist it can't not have evil it wouldn't be able to move or do anything. Cause what is evil stepping on grass stepping on an ant the line is too blurry. You could say in order for God to be physical evil must exist. If God must walk something must be crushed beneath its feet be it a rock sand or grass or a skull. To give preference to one is not equal.  we are but actors in the mind of God until we become free from our cage and can explore God as a spirit then we must return again as an actor. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Hojo

[Schizophonia]

Freedom is an illusion.

The Christian Augustianist/Jansenist view is already technically more rational even if it looks like strange cope and makes the Abrahamic logic even more twisted.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Holykael You have stuck in your reality which you have been continuously creating by your mind. By concepts and beliefs of your mind. None of these are eternal. They will naturally start to burn out as your process of suffering passes the apex point. Or maybe it has already passed? Only you can know that.

[Schizophonia]

9 minutes ago, Holykael said:

Lol at the idea that god is trying to make anyone free by giving people a completely useless choice and then caging them in an environment with little freedom. Everything is predestined anyway. There's actually 0 freedom so no one is actually good or evil. God is the only one who can be good or evil and he's plenty evil which taints any goodness.

Is God already "free"? To start. 

[Holykael]

9 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Is God already "free"? To start. 

God is free but he doesn't make use of it. Since there is no bias anything goes it might as well be random which life god chooses to live. The freedom and power is wasted on god.

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Holykael said:

God is free but he doesn't make use of it. Since there is no bias anything goes it might as well be random which life god chooses to live. The freedom and power is wasted on god.

If God is truly "free", how does he choose whether to imagine x or y?

If there is a choice, it must ultimately rely on some value to decide, so it is prosinier of this one, isn't it?

Does "freedom" basically mean something tangible?

[r0ckyreed]

Natural disasters aren’t evil. Evil is defined as the intentional act of harming another life (AKA, selfishness 101). Natural disasters aren’t selfish; therefore, they aren’t evil.

The logic is correct. Evil exists because human beings can choose to be selfish. If selfishness couldn’t be possible, then neither could selflessness. But that isn’t possible because consciousness is Absolute Selflessness.

Case closed.

Edited August 1, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

Natural disasters aren’t evil. Evil is defined as the intentional act of harming another life (AKA, selfishness 101). Natural disasters aren’t selfish; therefore, they aren’t evil.

The logic is correct. Evil exists because human beings can choose to be selfish. If selfishness couldn’t be possible, then neither could selflessness. But that isn’t possible because consciousness is Absolute Selflessness.

Case closed.

Ironically, you avoid doing """evil""" to protect your ego.
Ultimately everything is for your interest.

[Someone here]

Evil and suffering are inevitable and necessary parts of existence. 

Accept it or don't. 

Up to you .

[Ayham]

@r0ckyreed yet no act is intentionally evil, as much as an act seems evil, it is just someone's ego protecting itself thinking it's doing good 

 

[Breakingthewall]

life is intrinsically "evil", since life is evolution, and evolution is competition. Competition means that one wins and the other loses. the loser wants with all his energy to win, but no. There you are, stepping on his head to sink him in the mud. the deer wants to live and the lion wants to eat it. evil is being eaten and running out of food. evil is ethnic cleansing, but also eating lettuce. the lettuce is a being with an undoubted impulse to live, but you cut it and kill it. it is the law of life. ethnic cleansing too, and murder and war, and torture and rape. they are the result of the definitive struggle that life means. there is only one rule: survive

[Leo Gura]

Just remove the concept of evil from your worldview and everything makes sense.

Suffering is not evil, it is necessary for all life to stay alive. Just because something doesn't feel good doesn't make it evil. And selfishness is absolutely necessary for life too.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Just remove the concept of evil from your worldview and everything makes sense.

Suffering is not evil, it is necessary for all life to stay alive. Just because something doesn't feel good doesn't make it evil. And selfishness is absolutely necessary for life too.

I agree. 

Without suffering there cannot be learning or growth . But do you think the benefits of suffering outweigh its negatives? 

I imagine who never suffered would be very naive. overall a little empty and plain I think. So much of the overall reality would not be understandable for them. And the smallest thing would hurt them really bad

[Yimpa]

29 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Without suffering there cannot be learning or growth . But do you think the benefits of suffering outweigh its negatives?

I think it depends on how real you take suffering to be.

Also how much you trust yourself.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Yimpa

[r0ckyreed]

5 hours ago, Ayham said:

@r0ckyreed yet no act is intentionally evil, as much as an act seems evil, it is just someone's ego protecting itself thinking it's doing good 

 

If the action is intended to cause harm to another life form, I would define that as evil. Of course, it is relative. But it is unwise to throw out the concept of evil. That makes everything permissible and justifiable to continue the perpetuation of evil.

Edited August 2, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Yimpa]

26 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

If the action is intended to cause harm to another life form, I would define that as evil. Of

I just had pest control come over our house today. I’m so happy we murdered those damn pests.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

But do you think the benefits of suffering outweigh its negatives? 

For most people yes.

For a minority of people their suffering is so bad that perhaps death is better. But this is a small minority. Suffering very much depends on environmental factors that you cannot control. And some people are just very unlucky to be born at the wrong time and the wrong place.

The idea that suffering is just all in the mind is hogwash. This is said by lucky people who never truly experienced bad luck, like getting hit by a bus. Luck and external conditions matter very much. Even just your genetic luck plays a huge role. You could have been born with some horrible chronic disease through no fault of your own and with no cure.

But these are rare exceptions. Aside from this bad luck, suffering is very beneficial for your development and survival. Which is why it exists.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura