How to sleep 2-4 hours per day

[bazera]

@Leo Gura What do you think is the reason that Sadhguru doesn't appreciate psychedelics as much as you do?

Only because he doesn't have sufficient (or maybe any) experience with them? 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by bazera

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why do you believe that is? Because I feel the same 

It think it mostly depends on your brain type and personality type. If you are a very intellectually creative person then meditation may just not suit your style of mind.

Minds comes in many different styles with various pros and cons. Some minds simply never shut off because they are busy working on deep matters.

What I have found in myself is that I become very unhappy if my creative mind isn't on and having new ideas. My mind was born to invent thousands of new deas and to always be questioning. So meditation does not suit me. But contemplation does.

35 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura What do you think is the reason that Sadhguru doesn't appreciate psychedelics as much as you do?

Only because he doesn't have sufficient (or maybe any) experience with them?

Probably that, plus yoga may have worked so well for him that he doesn't need much else.

Sadhguru has a huge cultural and yogic bias. He teaches from a Hindu perspective and there's plenty of dogma in any such tradition. Few traditions appreciate psychedelics because they are very dangerous and because they are difficult to access.

It's not like Sadhguru can hand out bags of DMT at his retreats. So there is little reason for him to explore it deeply. Psychedelics are too much of a modern technology for them to be widely adopted by traditional mainstream spirituality.

95% of spirituality is very traditional and sheep-like. And I don't even mean religion. I mean non-religious forms.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura but i think sadhguru is coming at this from a spiritual perspective of building your spirituality gradually with daily practice rather than using psychedelics semi-recreationally the way the other guys intend to do.

correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think it's possible to do serious psychedelic work, without first having experience with spirituality more generically.  

Edited August 2, 2023 by Majed

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It think it mostly depends on your brain type and personality type. If you are a very intellectually creative person then meditation may just not suit your style of mind.

Minds comes in many different styles with various pros and cons. Some minds simply never shut off because they are busy working on deep matters.

What I have found in myself is that I become very unhappy if my creative mind isn't on and having new ideas. My mind was born to invent thousands of new deas and to always be questioning. So meditation does not suit me. But contemplation does.

I see! 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura but i think sadhguru is coming at this from a spiritual perspective of building your spirituality gradually with daily practice rather than using psychedelics semi-recreationally the way the other guys intend to do.

Yes, he is. That is one way. There are other ways.

The problem with the gradual approach is that it simply doesn't produce enough of a shift in consciousness to crack the illusion spun by Consciousness. That's what 10 years of spiritual study has shown me. This a very controversial claim. Many would disagree with me. You can test it for yourself.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, Benton said:

Did you even watch the video? Lol. He never advises getting sleep down to 2-4 hours. You obviously don’t care about understanding Sadhguru but feel free to make statements on him and his ways. 
As far as harmful advise goes I’ve seen far more people spiraling downwards on this forum than I have with Sadhgurus work. 
 

@Benton I respect Leo, but unfortunately he is deeply biased in this regard.

He has a point in the sense that no one should just blindly believe someone off YouTube videos. Sure. But also one should be open minded and not just preach the pessimistic motto of 'He is a genetic freak'.

Here's the thing, about 1 year ago I made a topic in this forum talking about an extraordinary state of Being I have achieved while coming down off acid while watching the 'Infinity Meditation' sadhguru video on YouTube. My topic title was something like 'How can I achieve this withouth drugs?" Or something like that

Leo rapidly said in that topic "You were on a psychedelic are not going to achieve that on your own". Of course again the pessimistic message. 

1 year fast forward, after probably +200 shamavhi kriyas, I have replicated that same state of dissolution and absolute euphoria on my own, completely sober, probably more than 10-15 times. 0 Lsd in my system while it happened.

so, what? Where is the recognition of the error? I´m still waiting for it. Of course now mods will say that I´m lying? Or that I am also another 'genetic freak'? ? 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

@Javfly33 I do tend to have a pessmistic/realistic bias in my attitude towards this work. 

My apologies.

It can be hard to strike a good balance between stuff like wild claims of sleeping 2-4hrs per day vs not. On the one hand sleeping 2-4hrs per day is a very unrealistic result. On the other hand a few people may someday achieve it. So what is to be said? I try to steer people away from going on spiritual wild goose chases. But then maybe I steer a few people away from a real wild goose.

It's hard to give concrete actionable advice that works for everyone. And on the other hand if I always say stuff like: "Anything is possible. Go try it." Then such advice isn't very helpful.

In the end anything is possible and you won't know until you try it. Which makes this work such a bitch. There's too much stuff to try and too little time.

The problem will all spiritual techniques is that we don't have good data on how effective it is across all types of people. And spiritual teachers love to deny that their fave technique is ineffective for someone by blaming the person for whom it didn't work.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Javfly33]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Javfly33 I do tend to have a pessmistic/realistic bias in my attitude towarda this work. 

My apologies.

  ?? Thanks, I appreciate the integrity man ?

[kylan11]

There's quite a few interesting studies on this. It has been observed that long-term meditators sleep less while experiencing none of the negative health consequences that one would expect both mentally and physically.

Therefore yes, it is possible.

[Leo Gura]

When it comes to Sadhguru's work, what I saw when I went to his workshop is that everyone there is following him like a sheep. And for me that is a dealbreaker. But with that said, you may love his work and it may benefit you. But in the last analysis I will have to ask, How much understanding of Consciousness did it give you? But again, that is my bias. You may have other goals.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

I can confirm that if I do 1-2 hrs of Kriya yoga I do sleep less. But not 2-4hrs less.

[bazera]

@Leo Gura I think you have to approach Sadhguru's work just like any other teacher's work, just like your work. Picking up what is suggested, testing, and going through the trial and error process while making sure that you're thinking everything through. 

But some of the things that anyone teaches, have to be taken as kinda faith, to stick with it, while realizing that you are doing so. 

So I just learned the Sadhgurus Shambavi Mahamudra yoga technique that I am supposed to do for the next 6 months at least. In my mind, that's not sheep behavior because it's a clear set of instructions that I can test and verify if it has any benefits for me. Maybe for a year. 

I think the danger with Sadhguru is if one believes everything he says without actually verifying what's being said. 

But that's the danger with all the teachers, you included. 

But with you, what I like is that you stress the point of independence thinking like 100x than Sadhguru or any other teacher that I've listened to does. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by bazera

[kylan11]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem with the gradual approach is that it simply doesn't produce enough of a shift in consciousness to crack the illusion spun by Consciousness. That's what 10 years of spiritual study has shown me.

Agreed. But at this point, why not combine the best of both worlds? It worked for me.

So in this case, get completely mindfucked by LSD/5-MeO once or twice just to have a glimpse of who and what you really are, then gradually work your way up with meditation to elevate your baseline consciousness. And one day you might have a completely sober enlightenment that will shift your baseline forever. That way you get:

1. A damn good reason to keep up your meditation practice in this materialistic world (you have an idea of what it's possible to achieve);
2. The amazing effects on your well-being that come from meditation alone;
3. Spiritual development without the associated risks of psychedelics.

To me that's a balanced approach that doesn't demonize psychedelics but puts emphasis on the baseline instead of the peak. And while relying solely on psychedelic might work for you @Leo Gura, many people (me included due to genetic predispositions) are way more at risk to lose touch with consensual reality and end up in a mental institution.

Edited August 2, 2023 by kylan11

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, bazera said:

So I just learned the Sadhgurus Shambavi Mahamudra yoga technique that I am supposed to do for the next 6 months at least. In my mind, that's not sheep behavior because it's a clear set of instructions that I can test and verify if it has any benefits for me. Maybe for a year. 

Sure, that kind of test is good to do. I have done those kinds of tests with various techniques. But many times they didn't produce the promised great results, which leads to disappointment and frustration.

Sadhguru doesn't like you experimenting with his techniques. He wants you to do them religiously without even explaining how or why they work and why they fail to work if they fail.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, kylan11 said:

Agreed. But at this point, why not combine the best of both worlds? It worked for me.

So in this case, get completely mindfucked by LSD/5-MeO once or twice just to have a glimpse of who and what you really are, then gradually work your way up with meditation to elevate your baseline consciousness. And one day you might have a completely sober enlightenment that will shift your baseline forever. That way you get:

1. A damn good reason to keep up your meditation practice in this materialistic world (you have an idea of what it's possible to achieve);
2. The amazing effects on your well-being that come from meditation alone;
3. Spiritual development without the associated risks of psychedelics.

To me that's a balanced approach that doesn't demonize psychedelics but puts emphasis on the baseline instead of the peak. And while relying solely on psychedelic might work for you @Leo Gura, many people (me included due to genetic predispositions) are way more at risk to lose touch with consensual reality and end up in a mental institution.

In the end if something works for you, I encourage you to keep doing it.

And in the future I will continue testing out new methods on myself. I can't know what I'll find.

I will try to be more accomodating to you guys in the future. I don't want to limit your growth with my own limits. The biggest issue is that not everyone is like me. And sometimes I forget that. This is a very sneaky trap in this work. We judge the effectiveness of things based on our personal experiences.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Razard86]

I haven't slept in 4 days. Yogananda said Spirituality can get rid of your need for sleep. We'll see as it is now day 4 of me not needing sleep. I already confirmed and this will blow your mind....you don't need food either. I survived for several days perfectly fine without food, now with that said....it was detrimental to my body. Your body needs that....but as you know...you aren't your body.

Think of your body like a vehicle. With that said, I would still recommend eating sleeping to keep the body healthy. 

[Leo Gura]

I have edited my original reply to tone it down and be less pessmistic and dismissive.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[bazera]

@Leo Gura

Quote

Sadhguru doesn't like you experimenting with his techniques. He wants you to do them religiously without even explaining how or why they work and why they fail to work if they fail.

Exactly. I'm doing the technique like a monkey, having no idea even in theory why I do the things in the 1h technique. But if it produces some results, that's okay. It's the part of the trial and error process. 

I think one should have many additional sources, like for example when I do Sadhguru's yoga, I'm also familiar with other yogic techniques, and in their books, for example in JC's Kriya book, some things are much better explained about bandhas, mudras, etc. Then I cross-reference that to what Sadghuru teaches me. 

 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, bazera said:

Exactly. I'm doing the technique like a monkey, having no idea even in theory why I do the things in the 1h technique. But if it produces some results, that's okay. It's the part of the trial and error process. 

Yes.

The million dollar question is what result will it produce?

For me, what turned me off from Sadhguru's yoga is when I found out he teaches a weak-sauce version of yoga to newbies and then plans to upsell you on the serious yoga years later. I could not stomach that.

But I don't want to discourage you. Follow thru on your plan if you feel it is right. I hope you see great results.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Miguel1]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

I have edited my original reply to tone it down and be less pessmistic and dismissive.

 

I noticed the shift in your tone and approach and wanted to take a moment to express appreciation and gratitude.

Even tho I understand that the harsher approach has its uses and times, I believe this more softer (not too soft to compromise), loving and understanding approach shows the health of the forum and perhaps, your psyche.

That being said, obviously never ”compromise” on the truth and rawness of what is! But that goes without saying.

Thank you for being a huge role model and a tremendous source of inspiration.

And thank you for creating and maintaining this space for us to be able to come together to learn and grow, all completely for free.

Much love.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Migue Lonas