Is Ego formed of "bad ego" and "good ego"?

[Andrea Bianca]

I have studied self development for over than 2 years now, and I tried to understand the root cause of the ego/duality in the brain and to see every step on how it evolves from childhood to adulthood. 

So I studied many teachings from different people and I noticed that there are 2 kinds of ego, not only one. Everybody says that the ego is the “evil side”, but from the studies I noticed two opposite egos. I tried to make a study of both dualities/egos, but I came along with some problems that I will address below, after I show you the study. 

 

The characteristics of these two egos/dualities:

- The bad/selfish ego: Logical mind -> Thoughts -> Evil Ego -> Masculine energy -> Unconscious -> Fear/Surival -> Pain -> Traumas -> Indulgent education -> Tyrants in society -> Positivity -> Happiness -> Narcissists/High self esteem -> Egoism -> Desires -> Possessive -> Hate -> Manipulators -> Selfish -> Possesive love -> Addiction -> Indifference -> Physical abuse -> Criminals/War -> Death/Killing. (ex: The popular kid in the school that is narcissist, rich, happy, doesn’t have a heart and that bullies you everyday, that doesn’t care about anything, very manipulative and can hurt you physically if they hate you, abusers)

- The good/selfless ego: Emotional mind -> Emotions -> Good ego -> Feminine energy -> Unconscious -> Fear/Survival -> Pain -> Traumas -> Strict education -> Sheep in society -> Negativity -> Unhappiness -> Empaths/Low self esteem -> Altruism ->  Expectations/Attachments -> Sacrifices -> Depressive -> Self hate -> Victims -> Selfless -> Dependent love -> Anxiety -> Numbness -> Suicide. (ex: The kid that is being bullied, that is poor, depressive, has a big heart and cares about everyone, the empath that sacrifices everything and is selfless, that it might commit suicide)

 

I studied the 9 stages of Ego, from Leo, and I noticed that there were always two different egos, one that is selfish and one that is selfless: 

- Symbiotic, Impulsive, Opportunist, Expert stage - which had in common selfishness, indifference, anger, manipulation, superiority, logic.

- Conformist, The achiever stage, Pluralist, Strategist - which is sheeps, dependence/needy, feelings, intuition, compassion, selflessness, sacrifices.

 

I noticed that even in the Spiral Dynamics:

- Beige, Red, Orange - survival, egocentric, domination, predators, indifferent, narcissistic, selfish, individualistic, cold

- Purple, Blue, Green - sacrificing for others, naive, rules, obedience, return to spirituality, care and love, false spirituality

 

Even the chakras have opposite dualities/egos:

- 1st Chakra, 3rd Chakra, 5th Chakra - survival, self esteem, personal power, self worth, confidence

- 2nd Chakra, 4th Chakra, 6th Chakra - emotions, love, intuition, imagination

 

The duality of the brain (where ego lives):

- Left brain: analysis, logic, ideas, facts, math, training, etc. 

- Right brain: creativity, intuition, arts, creation, feeling, imagination, etc. 

- If both hemispheres are in balance, what develops is free thinking. That's when you use your whole brain. 

 

Now my confusions:

1. People say the Ego is only the “bad ego”, but then, why in all these studies we have two opposing egos? If ego is only the “bad ego”, what is the “good ego” that I noticed? Cause it’s not Consciousness, because in the “good ego” we have self hate, low self esteem, etc. 

2. Is duality formed of bad ego vs. good ego? Or duality is formed of bad ego vs. bad ego? I know that somewhere I am very diluted, because right now I don’t understand if ego is only the bad side. 

3. What is Ego then, and where should I place the “good ego” characteristics? Please correct everything you see wrong in the study. You can see that some things are not right in the characteristics of ego, but I don't know how to correct them. I know that the two categories are somewhere wrong because, you can’t say that an evil person only has a logical mind, are not emotional, they are cold, because they hate and are angry, and that is an emotion too. Or you can see that I put happiness at the bad ego, which is a characteristic for enlightenment, so for sure something is wrong.

4. From what we know, Leo said that Consciousness = Unity, Unconditional love, Selflessness, Absolute goodness, Happiness, Peace, Balance. But balance means the equilibrium between good and bad. And happiness/selflessness/goodness is just the good part only. If consciousness is balance, that means that if we take my model, today I should love you unconditionally, and tomorrow I should hate you, today I should be selfless and tommorow selfish. Cause this means balance. Or that I should be neutral and not hate you and not love you. But this is surely not right, this doesn’t sound right. 

5. Why does consciousness look like the “good ego”? Being selfless, loving unconditionally without boundaries, sacrificing until you want to commit suicide? If God is absolute and balance, it means he is both. But this in practice looks like today I’m an altruist and tomorrow I will kill you. Which again doesn’t sound right. 

6. If consciousness is balance/unity of duality/paradox, then saying that God is selfless is just one side. From this model I understand that God is selfless and selfish at the same time, good and bad at the same time. But this doesn’t make me fell happy, unconditional loving, just very confused and not able to do anything, because I’m in the middle.

7. What does balance look then in practice? For me, for example if one extreme is healthy food and the other extreme is unhealthy food, the balance would mean i would eat healthy and unhealthy in balance. I will have a salad and cookies after. But why for some balance means only salad? 

8. If Consciousness is the “good ego”, that means that I should become like the good ego, and that will lead me to suicide. But there is self hate and low self esteem, so it’s not Consciousness. What is the difference between the “good ego” and Consciousness? Is Absolute good the balance of love and hate?

9. In the spiral dynamics we see balance as rational, emotional and intuitive come together, or feminine and masculine in balance. If we apply the model in my study, that looks like again today I love you, tomorrow I hate you. So how can I get out of this? 

 

Please correct everything that is wrong and please help me fix the study, to put in order the characteristics and understand exactly what is Ego. I really want to help this world and I want to finish this study, so I can help everybody in the future. Please don’t be mad at me for what I wrote. Is what I noticed while I gathered this whole information and put it side to side. Please help me see what is wrong here, because I can’t get out of this and it tormented me for so long that I feel like I can’t anymore. @Leo Gura please take a look on here, I would appreciate it very much to hear your opinion. 

[itsadistraction]

1 Ego is every word, memory, picture, and idea in your head. Whereas some people in general society equate ego with being "egotistical". 

2There is no good or bad. Morality doesn't exist.

Check out Leo's early videos on the ego and morality. He explains more there.

Edited July 25, 2023 by itsadistraction

[itsadistraction]

@Andrea Bianca you raise a good point, why do we bother trying to be "good"(conscious, selfless, patient, etc) when god is equally "bad" (unconscious, selfish, greedy etc)?

[ZzzleepingBear]

From several years of interest in the spiritual stuff and the mind. My understanding of EGO is roughly this. 

EGO is basically a survival system of the mind. Inorder to have the ability to make a choice, your mind create associations that split the world into bits and pieces with our senses and then give them names. The mind also split events and feelings into separate "things". And this splitting creates what we call duality. When we operate from duality, we operate from judgment and calculations that takes in consideration all the different pieces that our mind have split, and try to fit them together again to our own advantage in our personal survival agenda. 

Even words as good and evil have different connotations depending on your minds interpretation of those words and what they mean to you already. Non-duality is the a mind free from splitting the worlds apart, and the colapse of meaning altogether. Good and evil is not only the same in a non-dual sense. There is no such things in the eternal now. 

Ego always have to operate from past to future where the illusion of itself can appear as something real to itself, inorder to survive by keeping all its bit and pieces away from merging back together.

[Andrea Bianca]

@ZzzleepingBear I'm trying to understand how does non-duality looks in practice in day to day life. I understand that good and evil are the same in non-duality, but this makes me think that living from non duality should look like today I do good and tommorow I do bad. Or if there is nothing in non duality, my day to day life should look like I need to do nothing and to die. 

[Yimpa]

25 minutes ago, Andrea Bianca said:

@ZzzleepingBear I'm trying to understand how does non-duality looks in practice in day to day life. I understand that good and evil are the same in non-duality, but this makes me think that living from non duality should look like today I do good and tommorow I do bad. Or if there is nothing in non duality, my day to day life should look like I need to do nothing and to die. 

Leo doesn’t teach nonduality anymore. He teaches all of the traps of it.

[ZzzleepingBear]

2 minutes ago, Andrea Bianca said:

@ZzzleepingBear I'm trying to understand how does non-duality looks in practice in day to day life. I understand that good and evil are the same in non-duality, but this makes me think that living from non duality should look like today I do good and tommorow I do bad. Or if there is nothing in non duality, my day to day life should look like I need to do nothing and to die. 

You cannot really think about how non-duality should or should'nt be looking. This is operating from within the control of the EGO. 

Here is how I would describe non-duality in a nutshell in comparison with the EGO.

If the EGO is the explanation of a joke. Then non-duality is the laughter. The point is, they are inherently separate expressions of reality. 

[Yimpa]

@ZzzleepingBear Why are you giving all caps to EGO??

Funny how EGO and GOD have almost the same letters. Except GOD has D and EGO has E.

D comes before E, which makes GOD superior 

[ZzzleepingBear]

7 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@ZzzleepingBear Why are you giving all caps to EGO??

Funny how EGO and GOD have almost the same letters. Except GOD has D and EGO has E.

D comes before E, which makes GOD superior 

Good question.

To highlight that EGO is a subject to consider and think about as something  that stands out. Rather than something to be taken for granted as a regular word, as it is usually tends to be used in casual online conversations. 

To make EGO into a casual word is a ego mistake.

[Breakingthewall]

I don't think there is such a thing as an ego but levels of egoism. egoism is necessary, without it you would dissolve, you would not be an individual. In an environment where survival is difficult, selfishness is the main virtue. selfishness as an individual and as a tribe. red stage, war, slavery, etc. As the human is not an individual entity, but a hive organism, selfishness is placed at the service of the tribe or nation. for centuries humans have had the nation above individual interest, until the mid-twentieth century when the nation ceases to matter and everything focuses on the individual (in west). here selfishness/survival translates into acceptance/rejection = life/death. if you have been rejected, low self-esteem. everyone playing this game without knowing what they are doing. The very selfish person today is not a miser or a conqueror, but may seem like a fully functional family and friend type. It's not bad to be selfish, it's just a veil to the truth of existence. Those who have been rejected, have had self-esteem problems, are more likely to open up to the truth, if they are ambitious and intelligent enough to solve the puzzle.

[SeaMonster]

The good vs. bad ego, as you described, aren't "good" and "bad" -- they are both bad.

One is only "good" from a certain type of morality (Christian?)

They are both bad from an Aristotelian golden mean kind of outlook.

If you're a narcissist, that's bad; if you're committing suicide because you're too sensitive, that's bad too, from that viewpoint.

They are both extremes.

3 hours ago, Andrea Bianca said:

@ZzzleepingBear I'm trying to understand how does non-duality looks in practice in day to day life. I understand that good and evil are the same in non-duality, but this makes me think that living from non duality should look like today I do good and tommorow I do bad. Or if there is nothing in non duality, my day to day life should look like I need to do nothing and to die. 

Firstly, the "ego" is simply that which we think we are; they are traits we identify with.  This is morally neutral, although MOST of the time, we think whatever we are is good or right.

Nonduality moves along the process of integrating the shadow, that which we tend to disidentify with.  It can occasionally be considered good, but most of the time we think of it as bad.  We tend to project it onto others or repress it.

The endpoint of spiritual development is a yin-yang kind of integration of the two, where we discover that we were wrong all along in associating the shadow with evil (the case most of the time.)  We drop the negative association and see it as a necessary part of ourselves.

Edited July 25, 2023 by SeaMonster

[Andrea Bianca]

@SeaMonster That's what I wanted to say. But what I understand, if I'm integrating my shadow, that would mean that I will be good and sometimes bad at the same time. Let's take this example with food. The good side says I should eat healthy and the bad side/shadow says I should eat donuts. The balance of yin/yang would be to have a nutrition where I can eat healthy and have donuts too, not falling in one extreme or other. 
But how do I integrate the shadow in the opposite of love and hate. Here I assume that hate is the shadow/yang. How would that look in practice?

[SeaMonster]

@Andrea Bianca Well...assuming what you said is correct, and that it is indeed your ego that wants to eat healthy and your shadow that wants to eat donuts, here's how I look at it.

I don't think your shadow wants you to eat donuts ALL THE TIME.  What might be the situation in that case is that you are so scrupulous in your diet that you go overboard and don't even allow yourself the occasional treat, which wouldn't harm you.  So eating the occasional donut would be ok, and a healthy balance.

As far as love and hate, they are such loaded words that I want to bring them down to something more workable and practical here.

Let's call 'love' what attracts you and 'hate' what repels you.

In that case, 'loving' something harmful to you is not a good thing for obvious reasons, and 'hating' it is no vice if it keeps you away from harm.  Those are feelings that motivate your actions.  If you're not twisted or self-destructive, e.g. you would love and hate appropriate things in that context.

Even in a relationship with some person -- you don't LOVE AND HATE the person.  You love the lovable things about them and hate the loathsome things about them.

[Andrea Bianca]

@SeaMonster I agree with you about the donut and healthy food, that is the balance I tried to explain. 
But I still don't understand how would love and hate look from a yin yang perspective. If love is yin and hate is yang, then balance would mean to have a partner that has also lovable traits and also unlovable ones? But I see that everybody only wants the yin/lovable things in life. But balance is both, if I'm right. 

[Leo Gura]

The concept of ego is quite misleading and poor. It is better to not think in those terms but in terms of functions of mind. The mind has many different functions, motivations, defense mechanisms, etc. Some of them are healthy and others are unhealth. And how they are balanced also matters. Fear, for example, is one function of the mind and it has both healthy and unhealthy aspects to it. Judging things as good vs bad is itself a function of the mind which can become unhealthy.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And how they are balanced also matters. Fear, for example, is one function of the mind and it has both healthy and unhealthy aspects to it.

I'd say that fear, used properly, can act as a catalyst, pushing us beyond survival mode in a way that’s not too overwhelming. Thus, we can access higher states of consciousness.

[SeaMonster]

16 hours ago, Andrea Bianca said:

But I still don't understand how would love and hate look from a yin yang perspective. If love is yin and hate is yang, then balance would mean to have a partner that has also lovable traits and also unlovable ones? But I see that everybody only wants the yin/lovable things in life. But balance is both, if I'm right. 

Everyone has loveable and unlovable traits.  That's just reality.  "Everybody" is delusional if they think they can find someone with solely lovable traits.

 

[Andrea Bianca]

Thank you all for the answers ?

[SeaMonster]

@Andrea Bianca no problem