Why is Martin W. Ball not Awake?

[Davino]

So I've been reading his book called: Entheogenic liberation: unraveling the enigma of nonduality with 5-meo-dmt energetic therapy and also have read half of his book called Being Infinite: an entheogenic odyssey into the limitless eternal: a memoir from ayahuasca to zen. As well as Leo's interview and some of his youtube videos.

My reflection has been the following: it's obvious that Martin understands all ins and outs of the 5-meo experience and has a lot of experience with entheogens and specially 5-meo-dmt. However, it's clear for me that he's not awake, I mean he got it right in the bigger picture: I am God and everything is God, all is the one, non duality and crazy levels of love. However, he does not understand Reality, infinite Consciousness or have experienced the insane levels of Awakening that Leo talks about. This really leaves me puzzled in regards of how should I use psychedelics and specially the 5-meos for Awakening and God. If such a sincere and honest individual like Martin with tones of experience has not been able to progress that far, what makes the difference in terms of awakening with psychedelic substances? What have you done different from everybody else Leo?

 

It also really discomforts me his strong attitude against spirituality, religion, metaphysics, beliefs and systems but then comes out with his own system, metaphysical assumptions and a way of doing non dual therapy based on bilateral symmetric movements and the liberation from the energetic prison of the ego. Maybe it all depends in what we are interested in. I don't know if I'm that interested in the liberation of the ego, but I know I'm interested in Truth and I have not experienced myself as God, but if that is the case I'm also interested in going to the deep end of my Godhood.

 

[Davino]

The question could be summared: How can I use 5-Meo-DMT and Malt for the ultimate God-Realization?  

I don't want to get stuck in the way with some shallow realizations and awakenings and think this is it and more is just ego. Also is there an end to this work? Because I really feel this is infinite... 

[Giulio Bevilacqua]

34 minutes ago, Davino said:

The question could be summared: How can I use 5-Meo-DMT and Malt for the ultimate God-Realization?  

I don't want to get stuck in the way with some shallow realizations and awakenings and think this is it and more is just ego. Also is there an end to this work? Because I really feel this is infinite... 

Plug it and see it yourself ??

[tuku747]

I don't understand the obsession with labeling everyone as "awake" or not. It literally doesn't matter if someone is "awake" or not. They're a reflection of you. They Are You. Learn from them.

Just learn.

46 minutes ago, Davino said:

However, he does not understand Reality, infinite Consciousness or have experienced the insane levels of Awakening that Leo talks about

WTF? How could you possibly know that? Again, you'd be be better served if you quit judging everyone you see and instead open your mind to the idea that you can learn something from everybody. There's a reason humility is talked about in spiritual circles. It's to keep you open to learning. You will never stop learning.

[Davino]

 

19 minutes ago, Giulio Bevilacqua said:

Plug it and see it yourself

Gonna do that this weekend for the first time. I'm gonna lose my ass virginity

 

12 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

I don't understand the obsession with labeling everyone as "awake" or not. It literally doesn't matter if someone is "awake" or not. They're a reflection of you. They Are You. Learn from them.

So there are no categories, everyone is the same? I think there is great value in knowing how conscious someone is and understanding his path. Rather than taking the simplistic path of: Oh they are just projections, stop labelling, everything is you. I mean of course, let's keep working from that, let's evolve.

13 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

WTF? How could you possibly know that?

I've studied his work and I mean you can see it. He may know 100% that he is not the ego I have no doubt about that, but there is more facets to this work.

15 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

Again, you'd be be better served if you quit judging everyone you see and instead open your mind to the idea that you can learn something from everybody. There's a reason humility is talked about in spiritual circles. It's to keep you open to learning. You will never stop learning.

I'm very grateful for the work Martin Ball has done and I've learnt a lot from him. It is precisely from this appreciation for his work that I came to this reflections. Martin is so sincere and serious in his approach that this made me reflect. If Martin has done so much more 5-meo than anybody in this forum, even more than Leo, and if he is so into non-duality and God, why is it that he has not arrived as far as other people? From this questioning I expect to learn from his mistakes and assumptions and make faster improvements in my psychedelic awakening. I wanted to make a clickbait title to have more answers, I'm guilty of that, but I genuinly want to learn how to use these tools for the Work that we are doing here. It's for the sake of learning the shadow of other works that I'm sure I'll be able to integrate more lessons than just memorizing what they have said, not make any questions and staying "humble". I'm just not like that. I respect him very much but I want to see his blind spots so that I don't make the same mistakes.

[Adrian colby]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

So I've been reading his book called: Entheogenic liberation: unraveling the enigma of nonduality with 5-meo-dmt energetic therapy and also have read half of his book called Being Infinite: an entheogenic odyssey into the limitless eternal: a memoir from ayahuasca to zen. As well as Leo's interview and some of his youtube videos.

My reflection has been the following: it's obvious that Martin understands all ins and outs of the 5-meo experience and has a lot of experience with entheogens and specially 5-meo-dmt. However, it's clear for me that he's not awake, I mean he got it right in the bigger picture: I am God and everything is God, all is the one, non duality and crazy levels of love. However, he does not understand Reality, infinite Consciousness or have experienced the insane levels of Awakening that Leo talks about. This really leaves me puzzled in regards of how should I use psychedelics and specially the 5-meos for Awakening and God. If such a sincere and honest individual like Martin with tones of experience has not been able to progress that far, what makes the difference in terms of awakening with psychedelic substances? What have you done different from everybody else Leo?

 

It also really discomforts me his strong attitude against spirituality, religion, metaphysics, beliefs and systems but then comes out with his own system, metaphysical assumptions and a way of doing non dual therapy based on bilateral symmetric movements and the liberation from the energetic prison of the ego. Maybe it all depends in what we are interested in. I don't know if I'm that interested in the liberation of the ego, but I know I'm interested in Truth and I have not experienced myself as God, but if that is the case I'm also interested in going to the deep end of my Godhood.

 

I think it’s down to how deep you contemplate a subject without getting attached to it as some kind of rigid justification. 5MeO is such a drastically  different experience to when you sober up that the ego tends to backlash big time and Co opt the experience. I notice this happens to a lot of 5MeO users in the beginning. If you are capable of moving past it by watching how the ego behaves as you come back into the relative and evermore subduing it till it doesn’t take over when you come back, you can have a better time of integrating the experience without projecting bias onto it.  What we realise maybe found within the experience itself or the act of realisation when we are in relativity consciousness but then we go on to use it to justify all the minutiae. I had the opportunity to do 5MeO under the care of Ollie Martin of ( 5MeO movie where 3 guys from Britain/Ireland went to the Netherlands for what could best be described as soul searching in a midlife crisis). He did very well by respecting my request not to interfere in any way with my trip but he projected onto me afterwards. I found him to be very fear based, judgmental with pre conceived beliefs and stuck in conspiracies. He was also still struggling with basic familial childhood traumas that should have been addressed by now. Watching how your own mind works and continuing to observe it during day to day experiences is a vital part of integration but also practicing changing the patterns that are causing problems. That really needs to get out of the way so you can get down to the nitty gritty, philosophical, hyper logic and reason deconstruction of relativity so you can have a chance at really understanding these profound experiences. I read martins book and it waffled on for ages. While I can’t dismiss what he’s saying ( that’s his perspective and how he understands it) I can’t get over a facilitator getting so intoxicated to the point of throwing up on a client when they are meant to be sitting and being responsible for the care of the client. While I understand that the infinite doesn’t care about such things, they don’t matter at all, there is a certain amount of responsibility someone should hold up within themselves while conducting themselves as a human.

[OBEler]

Martin ball had over 8000 (!!) sessions with other people as a 5 meo facilitator. He took 5 meo always with them. 

Martin Ball told how 5 meo was embody him during normal day, he could activate it at will. 

He is so advanced, but still Leo went far beyond him so maybe Leo really pushed it to the limit where Martin ball took probably same dosages always and was not so much experimenting with these substances. 

I ask me if he ever took 5 meo malt. Would like to hear from him again, for example if he discovered something new or how 5 meo influenced his life in long term

Edited July 17, 2023 by OBEler

[Dazgwny]

He is no doubt advanced. But I think he seems to come across as though he has reached the end of discovering God. He thinks he’s done, with nothing left to learn. A deep rooted belief that he now understands everything is likely his blockage to even higher realisations and understandings

[Davino]

4 minutes ago, Dazgwny said:

A deep rooted belief that he now understands everything is likely his blockage to even higher realisations and understandings

So I should always assume that no matter how deep I go that there is always more? 

This is good advice. Consciousness and God have no limits okay, neither Awakening.

[PlayOnWords]

You've got Leo on the ultimate pedestal. There's Leo, then there's everybody else. There's awake, then there's asleep. A person can be 'awake' and not know something another 'awake' person knows.

[Dazgwny]

53 minutes ago, Davino said:

So I should always assume that no matter how deep I go that there is always more?

Well it’s infinite, that’s self explanatory. There always has to be more

[Yimpa]

Let’s ask him…

[Inliytened1]

20 hours ago, Davino said:

So I should always assume that no matter how deep I go that there is always more? 

This is good advice. Consciousness and God have no limits okay, neither Awakening.

No no.  Ever seen the matrix where he wakes up and realizes what he thought was reality was merely a simulation?  Awakening is exactly like that, only it is the dream of an Infinite Mind - not a simulation in some computer somewhere in a physical reality

So awakening is final.  But then you can reach ever deeper levels of ecstasy by deepening your love for yourself through your understanding growing deeper - not through knowledge but through Love itself.... The Love is Infinite.  That is how understanding gets deeper,  Love IS understanding, and vice versa.  So you must bring those two together as one.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Water by the River]

30 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No no.  Ever seen the matrix where he wakes up and realizes what he thought was reality was merely a simulation?  Awakening is exactly like that, only it is the dream of an Infinite Mind - not a simulation in some computer somewhere in a physical reality

So awakening is final. 

Yes. And when there are ever more Awakenings n+1, the real Awakening/Full Enlightenment hasn't happen yet. 

32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But then you can reach ever deeper levels of ecstasy by deepening your love for yourself through your understanding growing deeper - not through knowledge but through Love itself.... The Love is Infinite.  That is how understanding gets deeper,  Love IS understanding, and vice versa.  So you must bring those two together as one.

And this is a very beautiful and very true statement. That love/bliss/compassion is what stabilizes the shift into ones True Being.

And where there is not much love/bliss/compassion...

Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Ever seen the matrix where he wakes up and realizes what he thought was reality was merely a simulation?  Awakening is exactly like that

For me, awakening is not when you realize what you are not, it is when what you are opens completely: the infinite, total, absolute. unthinkable. when you realize that this, right now, is that, and that is you, always has been. you fully recognize yourself. free, total, you. but you can wake up deeper, much more, since that realization is brief. when you are that, it is so far from being a human that the pressure of your human energy pattern is enormous, it floods everything again immediately. when you are infinite you do not realize how you are creating (becoming) the cosmos and why, you intuit it, but it is vague. the real understanding of what you are slips away. you are, but nothing more

[Breakingthewall]

 

[Davino]

17 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

So awakening is final.  But then you can reach ever deeper levels of ecstasy by deepening your love for yourself through your understanding growing deeper - not through knowledge but through Love itself.... The Love is Infinite.  That is how understanding gets deeper,  Love IS understanding, and vice versa.  So you must bring those two together as one.

So you are saying that there is such a thing as a final Awakening but that Awakening can be ever deepened and interconnected. Did I understand you properly?

It could be understood by the lens of holarchies. Ever deeper layers of consciousness that integrate and elevate the already perfect and whole previous awakening.

 

[Thought Art]

I’m not sure what being awake is.