Women Are Perpetuating Traditional Morality In "Male-Dominant" Societies

[Mesopotamian]

To start and set the tone: Woman is the source of trouble, and woman is the keeper of traditional morality in male dominant societies. Women lack rationality in most cases, and I feel it's worth to investigate how they're causing their own misery through raising emotionally-dumb men, gearing them towards raw survival needs, which ultimately ending up with those men setting up hyper rational rules to ensure that society grows endlessly in and increasing numbers of people. 

Women (especially where I live) are so insecure when it comes to how to survive, therefore they shift some of that insecurity towards their offspring, especially males. And suddenly we end up with a highly rigid, and male-dominant society.

Example 1:

In the context of Islam, the relationship between Prophet Muhammad and his first wife, Khadija, holds significance. Despite being 15 years older than him, Khadija played a crucial role in supporting Muhammad's spiritual journey and helping him recognize his divine calling. Some accounts suggest that Khadija had an extraordinary intuition about Muhammad's future greatness, even before he was born. She provided guidance and encouragement throughout his life, ultimately influencing his belief in his prophethood.

Example 2:

Within Christianity, Mary played a pivotal role in the life of her son, Jesus. According to the story, she miraculously conceived him without a human father. Mary raised Jesus and became an important figure in Christian tradition, although her role extended beyond the central message of Christianity itself.

Example 3:

There have been reports highlighting the issue of female genital mutilation (FGM) in certain Muslim countries. It is worth noting that some women in these regions may unfortunately support and even celebrate this practice, despite its harmful effects. This complex situation warrants further exploration and understanding.

Example 4:

Drawing from my personal experience in a conservative society, I encountered resistance from my mother when I decided to pursue a romantic relationship without immediate marriage. It is interesting to note that my father did not oppose the idea. Eventually, my mother's concerns prevailed, and she refused to meet my then-girlfriend until the relationship came to an end.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mesopotamian
editing title

[Mesopotamian]

Also interestingly enough, when women of more developed societies "stage green" come together and create feminism movement, they go after males! as if males are the ones who are making these attitudes and nasty morality in place! Just stupid cycle of stupidity that humanity has got itself into..

[Salvijus]

No one is perfect. If you want you can blame just about anything in the universe for your suffering. But it's toxic. So i would in your case pick a healthier, purer attitude. Everybody is striving for happyness in their own way. Let us all join together, stop playing the humanity's favorite game of all time "the victim game" and move forward towards a brighter future. ? amen brother

Edited July 14, 2023 by Salvijus

[Bobby_2021]

Traditional societies are high on indoctrination. And women are more vulnerable to being indorctinated.

But as societies get wealthier women get a lot of freedom from this indoctrination while men still are bogged down by unrealistic expectations from society while also claiming that women somehow deserve equal power as men in society.

This gives women, on average, a higher privilege than men, on average. Keyword is "on average". 

[Mesopotamian]

5 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Traditional societies are high on indoctrination. And women are more vulnerable to being indorctinated.

that's true, and they end up perpetuating that through their male offspring! 

 

[Israfil]

This is reductionist. There are plenty of other traditions upheld by men too. Traditional morality is perpetuated by men and women alike. Using one of your examples, John Baptist was a pivotal figure for Jesus too, so there's that.

[eos_nyxia]

6 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

To start and set the tone: Woman is the source of trouble, and woman is the keeper of traditional morality in male dominant societies. Women lack rationality in most cases, and I feel it's worth to investigate how they're causing their own misery through raising emotionally-dumb men, gearing them towards raw survival needs, which ultimately ending up with those men setting up hyper rational rules to ensure that society grows endlessly in and increasing numbers of people. 

You (collectively speaking) reap what you sow though. And if you insist that this is some intrinsic (aka. "biological"), insurmountable thing, then you get more and more people who are a reflection of such. You need to give people the opportunity, the means, and the space to develop in certain ways, for the most part. (And if you have tunnel vision as a result of your beliefs, it's not like you'll actually see counterexamples anyway, even if they do exist.) Confirmation bias 101.

Quote

Women (especially where I live) are so insecure when it comes to how to survive, therefore they shift some of that insecurity towards their offspring, especially males. And suddenly we end up with a highly rigid, and male-dominant society.

Isn't this what happens when women have no other actual options for survival outside of men, except maybe for extreme fringe behaviour and professions? (E.g. prostitution) People don't tend to go too far out of their way to break social norms and ostracize themselves unless they are forced to, and certainly not if they don't have some extremely rebellious streak.

As an older example from a "1st world culture", my grandma (who is over 90 at this point), was a housewife for the whole time she was married. She did work a little, but she was not the main breadwinner. She was very vocal about how much she "lived for her kids" and "did everything for her kids", and how much unconditional love she had for them, etc. My dad had a different interpretation: he found her controlling and suffocating (and perhaps even classically narcissistic, my words, not theirs), especially when it came to the religion issue (My dad's family is mostly Catholic, and he became a "spiritually open-minded" atheist around college age). My parents used to have long talks about how she would have probably been a much better mother if she wasn't pushed into the housewife and mother role, because she could have benefited from some sort of a mental and emotional life outside her children. Perhaps there is some truth to this; her world was very small and myopic, in a way.

Especially if you push a woman into the mother role, and she doesn't truly want to (even though she "should" or is "supposed to", because it makes you a good or at minimally acceptable person)? You are absolutely asking for emotional issues that will then get passed on to her children. Full stop.

Quote

In the context of Islam, the relationship between Prophet Muhammad and his first wife, Khadija, holds significance. Despite being 15 years older than him, Khadija played a crucial role in supporting Muhammad's spiritual journey and helping him recognize his divine calling. Some accounts suggest that Khadija had an extraordinary intuition about Muhammad's future greatness, even before he was born. She provided guidance and encouragement throughout his life, ultimately influencing his belief in his prophethood.

A different time for a different world, when Islam was arguably the most progressive monotheistic religion in the world. The Next New Thing often tends to be.  (Well, maybe not in this world. It depends on the era. Is it a more bureaucratic era or a genuinely progressive era and culture?)

Quote

Within Christianity, Mary played a pivotal role in the life of her son, Jesus. According to the story, she miraculously conceived him without a human father. Mary raised Jesus and became an important figure in Christian tradition, although her role extended beyond the central message of Christianity itself.

And Joseph supported Mary even though he was not the father! (Y'all probably too young to appreciate this:)

Quote

There have been reports highlighting the issue of female genital mutilation (FGM) in certain Muslim countries. It is worth noting that some women in these regions may unfortunately support and even celebrate this practice, despite its harmful effects. This complex situation warrants further exploration and understanding.

This stuff is really scary. I think I remember reading that it is most often women who actually perform these surgeries, and it is female relatives who restrain the girls.

Edited July 14, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[Israfil]

27 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

This stuff is really scary. I think I remember reading that it is most often women who actually perform these surgeries, and it is female relatives who restrain the girls.

The young girls are encouraged and they try to display no pain as it's seem as moral courage in many cultures that perform these rituals. 

[eos_nyxia]

4 minutes ago, Israfil said:

The young girls are encouraged and they try to display no pain as it's seem as moral courage in many cultures that perform these rituals. 

I suspected as much. I wonder how well they even manage at that... it is rather hard to imagine myself in their shoes.  =/

[Israfil]

1 hour ago, eos_nyxia said:

it is rather hard to imagine myself in their shoes

Be glad you don't have to. Even in those communities, it seem the practice is getting obsolete.

[Leo Gura]

@Mesopotamian Just notice the blame game you're playing. This will not help you get girls.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

translation: you don't get girls ,therefore you try really hard to try to blame your lack of success all on women.

Try to grow up dude, because this is not your first post regarding this issue and its very clear that this is a coping mechanism.

[Mesopotamian]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mesopotamian Just notice the blame game you're playing. This will not help you get girls.

 

 

[Mesopotamian]

@Leo Gura this is the first part, mom defending morality..

 

[Mesopotamian]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This will not help you get girls.

FYI, I would've been married by now if I had little support from my family. My mom said that my now ex is a prostitute, refused to meet her. I had a fight with my parents, moved to another city, checked into a hotel ever since, and I broke up with GF just because in Iraq if it wasn't official engagement and marriage project, then romantic relationship is like a crime, and you can't even exist under one roof or in one room if you're not married. No one will rent you, and even when you check into a hotel, they ask for marriage certificate before giving you a room with your girl. 

[Nemra]

@Mesopotamian

In Iraq, do you have to be blessed by your parents in order to officially marry her?

[Mesopotamian]

2 minutes ago, Understander said:

@Mesopotamian

In Iraq, do you have to be blessed by your parents in order to officially marry her?

at least yes. everywhere, if your mom doesn't respect your choice and doesn't want to meet the person you loved, then you will be losing a bit of respect in the eyes of that person. 

[eos_nyxia]

@Mesopotamian

You're from, Iraq, right? Isn't that country extremely conservative in terms of religion and sexuality? I don't think people here in general know what it's like to live in your country, so they're probably going to give you completely irrelevant advice, practically speaking...

• Like, can't your ex's family come after you in a violent way, like metaphorically chase after you with an axe? (Or maybe literally?) Could you potentially lose your life or be physically maimed?
• Will you lose your place in your community and be ostracized by everyone once they know that you've had extramarital relationships, to the point where you can't actually safely live in your hometown because everyone knows your business?
• Can you be tried in a court of law for having a sexual/ romantic relationship, and will you go to jail?

If so, you should probably ignore first worlder's comments about getting laid, lol. You need to protect yourself first.

Edited July 14, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[Nemra]

@Mesopotamian It depends where you live.

Does disrespect have a huge effect on your survival?

Is it possible to survive alone?

Do you have a job? Do they pay well?

Also, Iraq is not a developed country. Be careful comparing it with a developed country.

Have you found a way to to get out of your country? If yes, why are you waiting for?

Edited July 14, 2023 by Understander

[Mesopotamian]

@eos_nyxia Hello, sorry for not replying for your first contribution here. You've presented good points, and I was thinking what to write. 

15 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

I don't think people here in general know what it's like to live in your country, so they're probably going to give you completely irrelevant advice, practically speaking...

They don't know and I am trying to ignore the comment and don't reply sometimes. 

16 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

Like, can't your ex's family come after you in a violent way, like metaphorically chase after you with an axe? (Or maybe literally?)

Could you potentially lose your life or be physically maimed?

Some of this is very true yes. 

24 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

Can you be tried in a court of law for having a sexual/ romantic relationship, and will you go to jail?

I guess under Iraqi laws it's a crime to have a sexual encounter without marriage. And now Iraqi police and army are turning into morality police, even in the most liberal parts of Iraq, they will go after you if they knew that you and your girl living unmarried under the same roof. They will put you in jail for that matter. 

17 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

Will you lose your place in your community and be ostracized by everyone once they know that you've had extramarital relationships, to the point where you can't actually safely live in your hometown because everyone knows your business?

The society is structured in a way that you practically can't get married if without the support of people. for example, no sex before marriage. Nobody rents you a place to live if you're a single, unless it's a hotel room, but then you can't have your girl there, because people at the hotel are required to see proof of marriage, or else you're not allowed to stay at the same room with your girl.

You think you can outsmart the morality system? but no.. If you're single man or woman, nobody rents you an apartment or a house to live at. You need to always be a part of a family, whether your own family, or you and your wife, the new family. 

So basically relationship without marriage are done in secret, and you can only have the freedom to talk to your lover on phone, meet in public places, and that's all. And few can still find places to mate, but if pregnancy happened by accident, then it's a huge problem. Basically people need to get married, or sometimes throwing the newel born baby in the trash!