The Lies are Necessary for Survival

[Scholar]

This is actually quite obvious. If you give a fool the truth, they will harm themselves and others, because lies and illusions are the only thing that keep them from acting that way.

If you convince a person from 700 years ago that hell does not exist, with their level of development, they are likely to act more dysfunctionally than if you had just left the that illusion alone. Similarily it is with other types of illusions that persist today. Illusions that a fool would of course want to get rid of, because they are antithetical to truth.

But what the fool does not realize is that the development and realization of truth is built on illusions. It takes billions of years of lies and illusions to get to this point, and it will take a lot more lies and illusions for civilization to develop the capacity to operate functionally without those illusions. You are taking away limitation that the current human beings require to live.

 

This is by far the most dangerous aspect of this work. Lies are very dangerous, but deconstructing lies and illusions in a foolish manner leads to the holocaust. It does not lead to progress, because it requires actual development to make progress.

 

Advanced spiritual teachers have always understood moral relativity, for example, but only foolish teachers would tell the fools that follow them that morality is relative. The wise teachers would instead create new moral laws for the fools to follow. The most appropriate laws for the fools to follow.

 

And this is also how God does it. Your ego has been equipped with lies and illusions so that you may not kill yourself due to your own ignorance. Because that's exactly what will happen if those illusions are taken away from you.

[Moksha]

Astute. ⚡I call it shrewd spirituality.

It's been a difficult lesson for me to learn. When you directly realize truth, it is so undeniably clear and compelling that the natural tendency is to shout it from the rooftop. Look inside! God is always here, just LOOK! Don't get lost in imagination, it is not who you actually ARE!

After studying the masters, I've begun to realize that truth is only as useful as the readiness of the person being taught. It has to be scaled to a resolution that can be currently comprehended. If the print is too fine for a set of eyes, it is ineligible and easily dismissed.

Maharshi knew that direct self-inquiry was the clearest path, but after teaching people in silence, and realizing they couldn't hear the silence, he learned to scale his teachings according to the level of the learner. I remember studying Nisargadatta and shaking my head at a rare comment that didn't resonate, until I realized he was intentionally adjusting his message for the current audience. Jesus said that he gave them milk, because they weren't ready for meat.

At times, I've shared truths (passages from teachers more enlightened than me) that are absolutely bursting with light, only to have them completely overlooked by most people reading the thread. You can encourage people to look beyond the words, but that means nothing until they actually see. When it happens, the message becomes deeply meaningful, but until then it is an empty pointer.

Maybe this is why fast path techniques, like psychedelics, raise a red flag for me. With proper guidance, patience, and intentional integration they may have enormous potential, but I observe so many people treating them as a spiritual shortcut, or mistaking them as an end rather than a means. They rarely allow the absolute to dissolve their ego, and set them free from the illusion of themselves.

Attempting to convince others of truth they aren't ready to see is foolhardy. It only encourages them to dig in their heels or worse, to harm themselves or others, because they lack the spiritual maturity to wisely apply what is being taught. Teaching only begins by realizing truth, then it becomes about realizing the readiness of the learner. You love them unconditionally, regardless of their current stage of understanding, realizing that they are essentially you.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Moksha

[Scholar]

5 hours ago, Moksha said:

Astute. ⚡I call it shrewd spirituality.

It's been a difficult lesson for me to learn. When you directly realize truth, it is so undeniably clear and compelling that the natural tendency is to shout it from the rooftop. Look inside! God is always here, just LOOK! Don't get lost in imagination, it is not who you actually ARE!

After studying the masters, I've begun to realize that truth is only as useful as the readiness of the person being taught. It has to be scaled to a resolution that can be currently comprehended. If the print is too fine for a set of eyes, it is ineligible and easily dismissed.

Maharshi knew that direct self-inquiry was the clearest path, but after teaching people in silence, and realizing they couldn't hear the silence, he learned to scale his teachings according to the level of the learner. I remember studying Nisargadatta and shaking my head at a rare comment that didn't resonate, until I realized he was intentionally adjusting his message for the current audience. Jesus said that he gave them milk, because they weren't ready for meat.

At times, I've shared truths (passages from teachers more enlightened than me) that are absolutely bursting with light, only to have them completely overlooked by most people reading the thread. You can encourage people to look beyond the words, but that means nothing until they actually see. When it happens, the message becomes deeply meaningful, but until then it is an empty pointer.

Maybe this is why fast path techniques, like psychedelics, raise a red flag for me. With proper guidance, patience, and intentional integration they may have enormous potential, but I observe so many people treating them as a spiritual shortcut, or mistaking them as an end rather than a means. They rarely allow the absolute to dissolve their ego, and set them free from the illusion of themselves.

Attempting to convince others of truth they aren't ready to see is foolhardy. It only encourages them to dig in their heels or worse, to harm themselves or others, because they lack the spiritual maturity to wisely apply what is being taught. Teaching only begins by realizing truth, then it becomes about realizing the readiness of the learner. You love them unconditionally, regardless of their current stage of understanding, realizing that they are essentially you.

We can look at the ego as a sort of scaffolding that, to see the truth one must deconstruct. The problem is that once deconstructed, many inexperienced people will focus on how amazing the truth is, and how all it takes is deconstructing the scaffolding.

What they often miss is that it matters a lot how the scaffolding is actually deconstructed. Carelessly deconstructing it will lead to suffering and dysfunction. You cannot do this with brute force.

An interesting aspect is that, most people, before they can start deconstructing the scaffolding of their ego, must first focus on improving and building upon the present scaffolding, in a way so that eventually you can safely deconstruct the scaffolding without it all falling ontop of you.

 

Most people, if they watch Leo's advanced videos, will probably experience more delusion and negative impacts in their life, precisely because Leo is so good at deconstructing things. Even someone who is not ready might find himself with parts of his scaffolding missing after watching Leo's content for long enough. The fact that Leo is so compelling makes his videos all the more dangerous to underdeveloped individuals, which in todays society are most people.

When people have egoic reactions against Leo's content, that's actually a good and healthy reaction. Their egos are not developed enough and protect themselves from the type of deconstruction Leo is engaging it, and I suspect this is an actual mechanism that evolved. Leo often talks about how we have to outtrick that mechanism, and he constantly attempts to do so in his videos. This is exactly what a foolish teacher would do, in my opinion.

 

Leo lacks perspective because he is an exceptionally grounded person, and he assumes that other people are as grounded as him. This however is not the case, most people who watch his content are not nearly as stable in that regard as him. I believe this is also why certain egoic structures Leo has are very persistent, and why he is still acting so selfishly. He has a very robust ego-structure.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Scholar

[Moksha]

40 minutes ago, Scholar said:

What they often miss is that it matters a lot how the scaffolding is actually deconstructed. Carelessly deconstructing it will lead to suffering and dysfunction. You cannot do this with brute force.

True, not only for people who haven't naturally awakened, but moreso for those who have. I've found that even when the ego is clearly seen for what it is, intentionally attempting to deconstruct it is sabotaging. You can't bootstrap yourself into oblivion.

The most difficult obstacle I've encountered is my will. If I believe something to be true, I deeply try to align my life with it. It's stunning how insidious the ego is. It will turn even the purest intentions into a self-sustaining hell.

I've learned the grace of surrender. It takes a higher power to pass through the inner gate. It's all god, but dissolving the ego requires unlimited god, loving the essence of itself still entrapped within a form. No matter how realized you are, you can't break free from the illusion while still within it.

 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

In the words of C. G. Jung: "Beware of unearned wisdom."

Well, let's be real... you could rename this forum into The Unearned Wisdom Olympics, lol.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Brittany]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:33 PM, Scholar said:

The wise teachers would instead create new moral laws for the fools to follow. The most appropriate laws for the fools to follow.

This reminds me of Jordan Peterson.

Your entire post, actually, reminds me of Jordan Peterson.

Jordan sees through a lot of lies. But he purposely holds unto lies and mythology to "create order in society"....even if he doesn't fully believe in them himself.

He thinks none of the Bible/God is real but that the Bible is the best book for fools to follow. 

Alex O'Connor called him out on his bluff:

 

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Brittany said:

This reminds me of Jordan Peterson.

Your entire post, actually, reminds me of Jordan Peterson.

Jordan sees through a lot of lies. But he purposely holds unto lies and mythology to "create order in society"....even if he doesn't fully believe in them himself.

He thinks none of the Bible/God is real but that the Bible is the best book for fools to follow. 

Alex O'Connor called him out on his bluff:

 

Jordan Peterson is interested in these types of dynamics so I am not surprised he has observed this. This is also applied in eastern teaching traditions.

Most people are not ready for the truth. Our civilization is not ready for the truth. Truth would destroy our civilization in a heart-beat.

[Willie]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:33 PM, Scholar said:

This is actually quite obvious. If you give a fool the truth, they will harm themselves and others, because lies and illusions are the only thing that keep them from acting that way.

If you convince a person from 700 years ago that hell does not exist, with their level of development, they are likely to act more dysfunctionally than if you had just left the that illusion alone. Similarily it is with other types of illusions that persist today. Illusions that a fool would of course want to get rid of, because they are antithetical to truth.

But what the fool does not realize is that the development and realization of truth is built on illusions. It takes billions of years of lies and illusions to get to this point, and it will take a lot more lies and illusions for civilization to develop the capacity to operate functionally without those illusions. You are taking away limitation that the current human beings require to live.

 

This is by far the most dangerous aspect of this work. Lies are very dangerous, but deconstructing lies and illusions in a foolish manner leads to the holocaust. It does not lead to progress, because it requires actual development to make progress.

 

Advanced spiritual teachers have always understood moral relativity, for example, but only foolish teachers would tell the fools that follow them that morality is relative. The wise teachers would instead create new moral laws for the fools to follow. The most appropriate laws for the fools to follow.

 

And this is also how God does it. Your ego has been equipped with lies and illusions so that you may not kill yourself due to your own ignorance. Because that's exactly what will happen if those illusions are taken away from you.

Respect the journey. No need to rush to the destination. It’s inevitable.

[Yimpa]

Lies are hilarious af, when seen clearly