How to judge somebody

[StarStruck]

Recently I talked to a psychotherapist (not as a client) and I was baffled by her. She was overweight and looked unhealthy and I caught myself judging her. I thought "how could she help others if she is not able to help herself?" and I felt guilty that I was judgemental but at the same time I thought there was some truth to that. I wouldn't hire her although I know she might help me or not. I think good judgement is key to survival and quality of life. It is a not taught anywhere and it is a very tricky topic. When I'm in the decision process to follow somebody or take any advice from them I always ask myself do I want to become like that person more than listening to the sweet little lies this person is trying to sell me but that is just me.

[Sugarcoat]

It would be bold if you hired her and told her that

[StarStruck]

18 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It would be bold if you hired her and told her that

I won't do that because I hired therapists and told shit in their face, and they didn't appreciate it. Most therapists have broom up their ass and won't take it in kindness when you pull it out.

Edited July 13, 2023 by StarStruck

[Sugarcoat]

20 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I won't do that because I hired therapists and told shit in their face, and they didn't appreciate it. Most therapists have broom up their ass and won't take it in kindness when you pull it out.

I like that authenticity. A great therapist in my opinion should be able to work with that lowkey 
 

They aren’t radical enough. That’s why I don’t go to them. Maybe a bias but I feel most of them wouldn’t understand me and maybe there is someone who would but why bother making effort finding one in a million 

[StarStruck]

@Sugarcoat just go to couple of them and find out. There is a difference between knowing and finding out through direct exp. When I found out I couldn’t find answers from therapists and I started finding my own answers. 

[StarStruck]

12 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@StarStruck have you ever worked with a psychoanalyst? if so, was it a positive experience?

Yea with a bunch. Only couple were positive. Another portion was ok and an equal portion was meh to very awful. 

[Sugarcoat]

19 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@Sugarcoat just go to couple of them and find out. There is a difference between knowing and finding out through direct exp. When I found out I couldn’t find answers from therapists and I started finding my own answers. 

You have a deep point there. Will see what I do with that info

[zurew]

51 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

When I'm in the decision process to follow somebody or take any advice from them I always ask myself do I want to become like that person more than listening to the sweet little lies this person is trying to sell me but that is just me.

I will say this : this could be a good rule of thumb, but it has some holes in it.

We can take a dozen of different examples where the person who guides isn't really good in that domain , but can still make the other person successful or help him/her to solve his/her problem regarding that domain.

You might think ,that if a person is bad at embodying the things he/she says, then what she/he says must not be applicapble or must be bullshit, but thats not necessarily the case and it will depend on a couple of factors.

For example lets take a boxing coach who has never been a champion in boxing, but could still create a world champion from the right person.

And we could flip this and analyze the other side: Just because you have embodied something ,that doesn't necessarily indicates that you will be able to give good advice to other people with in the same domain, who has different abilities, circumstances, and development and life structure compared to you.

 

So how should you judge?

1) You should judge based on the clients. If the teacher/trainer/coach/doctor has good clients or the clients have achievied good results  (the definition of good obviously based on what kind of situation or domain we talk about), then it is almost safe to say , that thats a good choice.

2) The other thing is obviously looking for signs of system thinking. System thinking is not necessarily required if you life situation is almost 100% the same as the other clients, because then the same kind of solution process could be applied to your life, but if your life is a lot different in many aspect compared to the other clients, then yeah system thinking from the coach/teacher/doctor/trainer will be required.

Those 2 points above should be enough in most cases, to find the right person you are looking for.

[StarStruck]

@zurew I agree with those two last points but your points about boxing coach doesn’t comply with the data. The best coaches are the ones who were boxers themselves and who walked the same path. It is not a fool proof method but there is some truth to it.
 

If there is an obese person giving weight loss coaching, does that mean the person is a bad coach although he is obese himself, no .. perhaps he is the best weight loss coach in the world but I wouldn’t bet on it. 

[Ulax]

@StarStruck Yeah I like the idea of only taking advice from people who you want to be like. Thanks for reminding me of that, I'd sort of forgot that nugget of wisdom.

And re psychotherapists, day by day my irritation and despair at the state of many of the practioners grows. Imo, its so irresponsible to be taking on clients when you haven't dealt with your own shit. Just the other day I was hearing a story of people becoming psychotherapists whilst they still met the diagnosis for CPTSD. It just baffles me how irresponsible and misguided that decision is. 

[caspex]

I have met a few people who give incredible advice but fail to embody it themselves. Their advice has worked for me.

But I think what you're saying should be the default rule when judging whether to take advice or not. But I just wanted to add that nuance.

[StarStruck]

@Ulax mental health care is in a dire situation. It is the blind leading the blind. And if you have something about it in their face you are the boogy man. 

[StarStruck]

1 minute ago, Swarnim said:

I have met a few people who give incredible advice but fail to embody it themselves. Their advice has worked for me.

But I think what you're saying should be the default rule when judging whether to take advice or not. But I just wanted to add that nuance.

Not to question what you said but helped you how? I know you talked about your issues. How you solved them? Or did they just told you things you needed to hear to feel better. Because those people who haven’t embodied the wisdom are very good at telling you what you need to hear so you think you are making progress. 

[zurew]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

 I agree with those two last points but your points about boxing coach doesn’t comply with the data. The best coaches are the ones who were boxers themselves and who walked the same path. It is not a fool proof method but there is some truth to it.

Sure, my point was to demonstrate you don't need to be for example a champion to make someone a champion.

Famous example could be Mike Tyson's coach: Cus D'Amato. My understanding is that he was an amateur boxer and thats the best he could achieve as a boxer - but he became an exceptional coach and he handled the careers of Mike Tyson, Floyd Patterson, and José Torres, all of whom went on to be inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

 

[Spiral]

I noticed a pattern in uni. A lot people who struggle with mental health study physiology.

I also had a friend of sorts who was definitely on the spectrum so to speak, studying Human Resources.

As for the question regarding judgment, I don’t know. I reckon having a considerate perspective is the best option.

[Ulax]

2 hours ago, Ulax said:

@StarStruck Yeah I like the idea of only taking advice from people who you want to be like. Thanks for reminding me of that, I'd sort of forgot that nugget of wisdom.

And re psychotherapists, day by day my irritation and despair at the state of many of the practioners grows. Imo, its so irresponsible to be taking on clients when you haven't dealt with your own shit. Just the other day I was hearing a story of people becoming psychotherapists whilst they still met the diagnosis for CPTSD. It just baffles me how irresponsible and misguided that decision is. 

Actually having read @Swarnim's comment, I sort of disagree with my view expressed in my above comment.

I think someone can have really good theory but struggle with implementation in their life.

For example, they might understand the importance of changing their attachment style to secure, but struggle with how to go and about making sure it happens.

So, I think there is something lost by only taking advice from people who you want to be like. 

[Nemra]

@StarStruck 

I sense that you are a perfectionist.

Am I right?

Edited July 14, 2023 by Understander

[StarStruck]

17 minutes ago, Understander said:

@StarStruck 

I sense that you are a perfectionist.

Am I right?

Yea

[StarStruck]

@Ulax what I said was a rule of thumb. Not an absolute.  For example I take advice from Leo although I don’t want to become like him. But if I did everything that Leo did like doing 30 day 5 MeO DMT challenge I would become like him. 

[Nemra]

@StarStruck

Has it always served you the way you expected or wanted?