Aren't drugs just escapism?

[BojackHorseman]

Clearly, I'm in the wrong place to ask that.

But I trust you, knowing that the general spirit here should try to approach non-duality, not to just be like everyone else out there just defending their team in bad ways.

 

So, yeah. Why use drugs? Why wouldn't you rather learn to use your brain and mind the best you can and transcend things from here?

To be totally honest, I am somebody that's very anxious (including medical andxiety, and anything that affects me and that I can't control) and afraid to take drugs since I had the most gigantic, hours long bad trip just smoking pot (I am also undiagnosed but probably something like either and/or bipolar, ADHD, autism, and drugs might affect me in the wrong way even tho cannabis used to be pretty good for me most of the time before that one bad trip.

But on the other hand, even without those personal problems, I still believe that drugs should be kind of useless if everything else was done right?

Also, how would you know if drugs made you belive things that are actually not "true"? What's the difference with any other drug where people are feeling good and think they see things clearly when thy don't?

[Leo Gura]

Maybe "real life" is just escapism from drugs

Edited July 12, 2023 by Leo Gura

[BojackHorseman]

Funny

But if that is actually something you believe in, wouldn't it be more fair to say that real life is an escapism from other/higher states of consciousness (the ones you use drugs to access)?

That being said...I just thought you could pretty much say drugs are just a tool like any other to go through life (maybe not just the right one for me). As long as, with any other means or tools, people do not get addicted, stuck, or extreme with it.

[Leo Gura]

Psychedelics are a powerful tool which could easily be abused.

If you use them intelligently they will revolutionize your life.

That's really all there is so say on this topic. Do what you will.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe "real life" is just escapism from drugs

I'm starting to look at life backwards myself. This Universal mirror plays a lot of tricks and I'm starting to catch on to its trickery. That's probably another trick its playing on me. But I'm game. 

[BojackHorseman]

Certainly, "do what you will" is the one answer that solves everything in the end.

I guess I also can't imagine the effects of psychedelic unless I try them. I guess too bad cause clearly I know how it will end for me if I do

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, BojackHorseman said:

Clearly, I'm in the wrong place to ask that.

But I trust you, knowing that the general spirit here should try to approach non-duality, not to just be like everyone else out there just defending their team in bad ways.

 

So, yeah. Why use drugs? Why wouldn't you rather learn to use your brain and mind the best you can and transcend things from here?

To be totally honest, I am somebody that's very anxious (including medical andxiety, and anything that affects me and that I can't control) and afraid to take drugs since I had the most gigantic, hours long bad trip just smoking pot (I am also undiagnosed but probably something like either and/or bipolar, ADHD, autism, and drugs might affect me in the wrong way even tho cannabis used to be pretty good for me most of the time before that one bad trip.

But on the other hand, even without those personal problems, I still believe that drugs should be kind of useless if everything else was done right?

Also, how would you know if drugs made you belive things that are actually not "true"? What's the difference with any other drug where people are feeling good and think they see things clearly when thy don't?

What's seeing things clearly? Do you think you're seeing things clearly in a sober state. Thats probably the most "unclear" state there is. Things are always vibrating can you see that with the naked eye? There are substances and things presently around you that you cannot see. Maybe every other state except for being sober is showing Reality closer to the Truth. Never underestimate the trickery of this thing called life. Take nothing for granted. 

[BojackHorseman]

Good point.

But there is also no way to tell if the states you end up with whatever psychedelics are not some kind of foolery of your brain, as much or more than how most people perceive reality is (and it certainly is, I agree).
If there are so many things that can affect our brain and body in a negative way, there are chances that psychedelics might do too and gave a wrong vision of things instead of one that's closer to whatever truth.
But nobody can prove that one way or the other, so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Rigel]

1 hour ago, BojackHorseman said:

Good point.

But there is also no way to tell if the states you end up with whatever psychedelics are not some kind of foolery of your brain, as much or more than how most people perceive reality is (and it certainly is, I agree).
If there are so many things that can affect our brain and body in a negative way, there are chances that psychedelics might do too and gave a wrong vision of things instead of one that's closer to whatever truth.
But nobody can prove that one way or the other, so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tell me you haven’t done psychedelics without telling me you haven’t done psychedelics.?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, BojackHorseman said:

clearly I know how it will end for me if I do

You don't know. You are being ignorant and closedminded.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Rigel]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't know. You are being ignorant and closedminded.

You fear psychs for the same reason you fear jazz: the lack of boundaries!

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, BojackHorseman said:

Good point.

But there is also no way to tell if the states you end up with whatever psychedelics are not some kind of foolery of your brain, as much or more than how most people perceive reality is (and it certainly is, I agree).
If there are so many things that can affect our brain and body in a negative way, there are chances that psychedelics might do too and gave a wrong vision of things instead of one that's closer to whatever truth.
But nobody can prove that one way or the other, so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Do you require proof for everything. What if certain things just aren't provable, doesn't mean it's not true.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Rigel said:

You fear psychs for the same reason you fear jazz: the lack of boundaries!

You fear psychedelics for the same reason you fear a bear: it will rip your face off.

[BojackHorseman]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't know. You are being ignorant and closedminded.

I don't know but I can draw conclusions considering my experience.

As I was saying, simply smoking pot gave me the absolute worst, hours long panic attack, I thought I was gonna die. And I learned nothing from it. I was already anxious before but I think my panic attacks I had since came after that experience.
 

I think I've read somewhere that it can't be too good for some mental disorders like the ones I self-diagnose, but maybe I'm wrong, browsing for infos now.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, BojackHorseman said:

smoking pot gave me the absolute worst, hours long panic attack

You're not gonna reach GOD without a panic attack. What do you think this is, kindergarten? We are talking about life, death, and insanity here, and beyond.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hojo]

@BojackHorseman  its because you still listen to the voice in your head. When I first had pot the first 3 months were just my brain going, you are going to die you are going to die your brain is glitching out you are dying. But if you ignore what is happening it just goes away, you are creating the panic not the weed, weed is not giving you a panic attack your thoughts are tricking you into panicking. Its literally killing the part of you that causes panic and that part is panicking and you are giving into it.

I only started smoking pot cause I fucked my back up at work and couldnt move and weed nulled the pain even tho it was freaking me out I just kept doing it cause nothing else worked. And it taught me something very important about how my mind functions. You wont ever learn anything about yourself without killing a part of yourself, but dont worry you literally cant die you have infinite parts.

Why you think stoners are so zen, they cant panic !

Edited July 13, 2023 by Hojo

[BuddhistLover]

In that situation the best thing to do is to take deep breathes to try and calm your nervous system down. After about two hours the weed high goes away, It's a substance after all which can cause your perception of reality to change. The best thing to think about in that situation is that it will not be or isn't going to last forever, and that it's a high. I think that the reason that it probably reached that point is because you might have smoked too much. If you smoke a little bit it probably won't be a big shift in perception, but if you smoke a big dose out of a bong or something then that definitely is going to happen. For people who smoke weed for years they get used to it, then know in their mind what is going to happen. For people when it's their first few times smoking weed, things like that can happen. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by BuddhistLover

[Rigel]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You fear psychedelics for the same reason you fear a bear: it will rip your face off.

Accurate enough?

[Javfly33]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You're not gonna reach GOD without a panic attack. What do you think this is, kindergarten? We are talking about life, death, and insanity here, and beyond.

Wise words there ??

[BojackHorseman]

16 hours ago, BuddhistLover said:

I think that the reason that it probably reached that point is because you might have smoked too much. 

Not even to be honest. It was just a tiny bit. It all came from my mind/anxiety for some reason. I was ready to relax, idk what happened.

 

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You're not gonna reach GOD without a panic attack. What do you think this is, kindergarten? We are talking about life, death, and insanity here, and beyond.

I must admit I'm a bit disapointed (not at you or other people) that it would be required to do psychedelics to reach higher states of consciousness.

It's petty because I can't do them myself, probably, so maybe this turned to fear and rationalizing how it's bad.

Still, as for everything,I do think it's good to keep an open mind and keep a small share or belief that taking them might not be the best solution/a mistake, but it certainly depends on the individual.

I'm also pretty sure some well respected spiritual teachers probably don't do them and they're still probably on a high "level" (whatever that means). You might consider them at a lower level or whatnot, but people like Eckhart, Sadhghuru or Teal Swan probably don't take/advocate them?
Please note that I dislike some of their opinion and whatnot (I've actually unsubscribed one and am considering unsubscribing the other, for different reasons tho) I just think they're clearly way higher level than the average human, and if, like I believe (correct me if wrong, they're not using psychs, it shows that you can go quite high without them. Probably higher with. But I wouldn't know that.)

Hopefully I don't come off as annoying, I sincerely wish you the best of luck with psychedelics. I was just asking myself all of those questions, not as a way to say y'all wrong. Just out of curiosity.

Edited July 13, 2023 by BojackHorseman