Is Trying To Self Actualize In Complete Opposition To Psychology And Psychologists?

[LRyan]

I am in the midst of "therapy" which does nothing but continue to bring up the past and re hash things and make you re live any horror that you went through as a way of exposing you to it over and over so that you become immune or no longer fear what happened?  Their line of thinking is the same as curing any fear such as that of a fear of spiders...continuous and repeated exposure will cause you to no longer fear it?  

How can anyone who is trying to work on themselves and gain enlightenment and awareness participate in traditional Psychology?  This feels like a method of torture to me and has caused a definite back sliding of all of the hard work I have put into myself.  

What are your thoughts on the clash of these meeting head to head. Pardon the pun! 

[Leo Gura]

Hehe, depends on which school of psychology you and your therapist subscribe to.

Some schools are great, but of course most Western psychology is terrible because it fails to understand or address the root existential issues. It fails to talk about all the spiritual truths without which true healing is virtually impossible.

And don't get me started on the therapists who issue pills for things like depression, ADD, and anxiety.

But "self-actualization" is a Western psychology term. If you're gonna use a therapist, find one who's into Humanistic Psychology, Transpersonal Psychology, Positive Psychology, CBT, Gestalt Psychology, Reichian Therapy, etc.

If your therapist is "new-agey", that's a great sign. If he's like a doctor, that's a terrible sign.

Psycho-analyzing your past can have some value, but it's generally not a good technique for growth. You're much better off spending that 1 hour meditating, journaling, contemplating, or self-inquiring.

[LRyan]

Thanks for the reply.

My Psychologist is more like a doctor.  He is the opposite of new-agey....I'm not judging him but making an observation that he is obese and eats pastries and snacks during my session.  When I tried to bring up the spiritual truths that I believe in he told me to forget about that and that all "those people" that I mentioned like Deepak Chopra and Dr. Wayne Dyer and Eckhart Tolle are all full of BS.  This pissed me off and actually made my self study intensify.  I'v tried to be open minded but he is very closed minded and very arrogant  saying he is the best in North America at treating PTSD.  He has told me he is very impressed with my progress.  I didn't tell him that it is because I had intently started once again on my path of self-actualization and have been watching videos and studying how to pull myself out of my suffering.  He believes it was his exposure method.  He told me it's like I am a different person than before.

I have also watched the video on Karma and now I am thinking that Karma will get me because I wasn't truthful with him about what caused the change in my behaviour.

After I wrote my question I watched the video about letting go of the past and it helped me decide that what I truly want is to let it go because it isn't real, it's a story that I don't need to be a part of my life and it's not important at all in the scope of what I need to focus on so I'm glad that it helped me decide what I need to do. 

I do believe meditation would serve me much better.  I just have to figure out how to deal with Karma.. that's tough...

[Echoes]

@LRyan Maybe change your psychologist? Doesn't seem like a good choice to stay with your current one. I don't know how hard it is to actually find a good Psychologist who is familiar with the deepest truths and spirituality though

[Nahm]

@LRyan you're kickin ass! Forget that dr. 

[Just Do Nothing]

I was in therapy once, but it was Leos advice that really started to mend me. Unfortunately, the real 'original' methods are frowned upon these days.  

[LRyan]

Thanks so much for the replies!  I can see the point of a new Psychologist but any new one will only be the same..I'm very sure that there are none that are what Leo suggested unfortunately.

I feel like once we know what we know, we can't go back and be tricked or fooled  by things that don't resonate with our true selves... I really don't think focusing on what you don't want brings peace or closure right?

I truly do feel like I'm "kickin ass" lol!!    ....BUT....I'm in a trap where my therapy is a requirement due to my being away from work to deal with my workplace issues so I'm in a tricky situation where I'm against a rock and a hard place     I'm really not sure what to do but for the last two sessions, it has caused me mental suffering to go there knowing that I am lying to myself and to him.  When I am done rehashing things I am taken to the ground meaning that I feel I am reduced to nothing but my story and just playing it out in my head again and again...then it's taking me days to get back on track again.  I can't do this too much longer.  I'm at a loss for what to do except tell him that I feel better and I would like to move on with my life and then try to phase out this unhelpful therapy.  Then I will really be able to focus on my real purpose which is peace, and to end my suffering.

I really value everyone's opinion in this forum.  I have been around here for a couple of weeks and I've seen nothing but good people trying to help each other to understand our true nature.  Thanks so much Leo for providing this forum, it is really valuable....... so if anyone has any ideas how I can approach this and put an end to my therapy, please feel free to chime in!

 

[SLICKHAWK]

@LRyan do you meditate daily? Truth we can all use therapy if it adapts to our self.

Be alone with yourself. Talk to others such as this forum.

Express all emotion and let go. Remember you are becoming/ waking up to the best of you.

Reflect on the past for grace only. Reflect on positive emotions. Take in the bad and release that.

Continue into the future thought if the greatest person you are and you really are amazing. Please love me as i love you.

Feel the vibration of love and grow strong seeping your roots, creating your balance and find one purpose.

This all sounds corny but in truth we find release/find ourself purpose/ find love.

[Loreena]

15 minutes ago, SLICKHAWK said:

@LRyan 

This all sounds corny but in truth we find release/find ourself purpose/ find love.

@LRyan this is so true. Truth reveals everything about life. Just ask yourself what is the truth in the here and now and all answers will flow out. Truth makes you free from everything. 

[JustinS]

I'd highly recommend the audiobook Loving What Is By Byron Katie! 

[Leo Gura]

@LRyan The best techniques that I know of for PTSD are neuro feedback training and psychedelics (specifically MDMA). I think doing Vipassana retreats or the like would also work wonders for PTSD. Don't expect it to be easy though. All of these methods lead to healing, but healing requires emotional labor.

[SLICKHAWK]

@Leo Gura vipassana retreat ive been looking at. Only my children i have. And finding the 10 days or weeks to attend intrigue my interset.

Ok so kids/real life juggle. I find it difficult to attend. Only my idea to attend is it practical to my meditation or moving on without trying new technique?

[mostly harmless]

Logotherapy developed by Viktor Frankl is worth a look. But it depends of course on what for you're seeking therapy. And of course not all psychologists are automatically great just because they have a legit degree from a University. You may have to look around a bit before you find a good one.

I would see it as a good sign if the psychologist is into buddhism or has also studied philosophy.

Psycho analysis is in my book a long process which may provide you with an alibi feeling of working on the problem while you're actually just spending many years with somebody who diligently and professionally takes stock of your problems, instead of actually changing anything. I would not do that.

[LRyan]

9 hours ago, SLICKHAWK said:

@LRyan do you meditate daily? Truth we can all use therapy if it adapts to our self.

Be alone with yourself. Talk to others such as this forum.

Express all emotion and let go. Remember you are becoming/ waking up to the best of you.

Reflect on the past for grace only. Reflect on positive emotions. Take in the bad and release that.

Continue into the future thought if the greatest person you are and you really are amazing. Please love me as i love you.

Feel the vibration of love and grow strong seeping your roots, creating your balance and find one purpose.

This all sounds corny but in truth we find release/find ourself purpose/ find love.

Yes I have been meditating for the last 2 weeks so I am a beginner but I have found benefits already.

I would rather be alone than anywhere else and I love this forum so much....

Your message is very uplifting and I appreciate it very much!!  It's not corny at all...

9 hours ago, Loreena said:

@LRyan this is so true. Truth reveals everything about life. Just ask yourself what is the truth in the here and now and all answers will flow out. Truth makes you free from everything. 

You are right.  We need to be truthful.  I believe that too, if we accept the truth of our life situation we should be free shouldn't we?  It's only the bit of fear that tries to sneak in that can disrupt things I think.  Maybe just noticing if we are resisting the truth might help us live truthfully?

9 hours ago, JustinS said:

I'd highly recommend the audiobook Loving What Is By Byron Katie! 

I will have a look at that for sure.  I have heard of Byron Katie!

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@LRyan The best techniques that I know of for PTSD are neuro feedback training and psychedelics (specifically MDMA). I think doing Vipassana retreats or the like would also work wonders for PTSD. Don't expect it to be easy though. All of these methods lead to healing, but healing requires emotional labor.

I did look into neuro feedback.  I had never heard of this before.  It's interesting and seems very new wave.  If I lived in a large city I think I would have access to different therapies but I'm in a relatively small city with limited resources.  You are so right, any emotional labor is difficult, so hard to do but really necessary.  My attention has been drawn to Vipassana and I have spent hours looking up which retreats I might be able to attend.  Of course I looked at India but I've never traveled alone and I have some reservations about that although I would love to book a flight and just go.  There is a huge website that offers Vipassana retreats all over the world but there are so many to choose from and I'm trying to figure out how to pick one.  I really think that would help me so much more than anything else at this moment....  If you are able to provide any guidelines for choosing a place I would truly appreciate that.  I live in Canada but I am open to almost any destination.  Thanks Leo

8 hours ago, mostly harmless said:

Logotherapy developed by Viktor Frankl is worth a look. But it depends of course on what for you're seeking therapy. And of course not all psychologists are automatically great just because they have a legit degree from a University. You may have to look around a bit before you find a good one.

I would see it as a good sign if the psychologist is into buddhism or has also studied philosophy.

Psycho analysis is in my book a long process which may provide you with an alibi feeling of working on the problem while you're actually just spending many years with somebody who diligently and professionally takes stock of your problems, instead of actually changing anything. I would not do that.

Believe me, there are not many psychologists where I live that provide anything other than the standard type of therapy.  I am not in a progressive area by any means.  I understand your point about the process of taking stock of problems and just plain old talk therapy which does nothing but bring up old wounds and pain without really offering any way out of the suffering.  I think that the standard model of Psychology doesn't address the main problem which in my "unprofessional" opinion..hehehe...is spiritual.  I'm starting to see in myself that understanding what is truly at my core and what disturbs me the most is that I thought I was flawed because of bad things that happened to me but if I realize that I come from a perfect source straight from the universe than am I not whole and perfect as I am?  Are we all not perfect and whole but we just don't realize it?

I don't think a therapist can fix any of this......at least after a long time in therapy with no results, I've discovered once again that what I need, I already have.  I just have to figure out a practical way to deal with my situation because every time I go to a session it makes me feel awful and sick and I suffer..  

 

[eskwire]

@LRyan Hey, buddy!  Therapy is a trip.  It's amazing how stupid and how wonderful it can be.

To start, I live in rural Arkansas in the US.  That's very backwoods - very anti-new-agey.  My therapist here is the one who told me about Leo.  One therapist I had in San Diego tried to get me to read The Secret and another one there put me on pills soooooo...don't limit yourself by saying, "There is no better therapist in my area."  You really have no way of knowing until you walk in the door.  Location is meaningless.  Keep shopping.  If nothing else, you might find one who believes in the same kind of technique but doesn't believe in shoving it down your throat. 

Second, please tell your therapist he's hurting you and that you firmly believe your improvements have been in spite of him, not because of him.

There is zero reason to try to make your therapist like you or feel comfortable.  They are supposed to be objective and you are supposed to tell them the truth - the whole truth - and nothing but the truth.   If you offend his sensibilities, so what?

Now, I have read that exposure therapy is helpful for PTSD and not for issues like childhood slights.  What I've read could just be wrong, though, and your shrink might be wrong.  I don't know what your PTSD is from, but taking warfare as an example - warriors in other eras didn't take Prozac and repeat the events dozens of times.  This is the accepted clinical methodology of our time.  That means nothing.  

Also, you don't need to worry about Karma in the future because the fallout from not telling him the truth is already happening to you.  You subconsciously know that you aren't being true to yourself by lying to him.  That hurts your self-esteem.  Also, it sounds like you're still being subjected to something you don't want because you're lying.  Boom.  Karma.

Just because you're on the receiving end of therapy doesn't mean you're crazy.  To quote Kramer, you may be so sane, you blow his mind.  

Good luck to you!  Don't give up and don't limit yourself.  You can turn this into a learning experience for everyone. <3

Edited March 22, 2017 by eskwire

[LRyan]

Thanks for all the insight!  I agree with you but, I have a catch 22.  I can't just start over with another therapist because I would have to go back to ground zero and I'm not sure I can do that after doing all this work on myself.

I really believe that I don't need therapy that what heals me is the self actualization material.  My problem is that I'm tied to this Dr. until I can escape by means of my "recovery".  Without getting into all the details, I'm not free to just get another Psychologist, they have to be certified under a certain board in order for their services to be covered under my plan.  There might be some newer age forward thinking "therapists" in town but they don't qualify so in order to complete my "rehabilitation" I am restricted by who I can use.  At first it was ok because I was asleep/unconscious but in the last few months I have picked up my books and started reading again and it woke me up from my sleep.  Now I'm in a position where it would not be in my best interests in some respects to just turn the table on this therapy so I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without having to tell him that I believe that is was my own realization that is making me feel better.

I don't know really what I am asking here.  Actually I do.......if I tell the truth I really know that I am lying and I'm trying to find out  how to lie and still feel good about myself which is obviously impossible....or how do I stretch this out far enough so that he will end the therapy so I can move on and he can file his reports  OR do I just tell him the truth and possibly cause myself financial problems/future job insecurity and a host of headaches.  

Am I just acting out of fear of what might happen if I let on that I have worked on myself?  He has already claimed that his methods were so successful on me and I didn't disagree.  I feel like I have really messed up here.

I truly find myself in this situation innocently.  I can't help that I "woke up" and if I tell him about this he will think I am crazy and he may not be supportive and it may hinder my efforts to move on with my life...  He already told me he doesn't believe in spiritual enlightenment saying it's all BS.

Sorry folks, I didn't mean this to turn into a saga I was hoping there was a quick fix for the pain and suffering but I guess I have to decide do I want peace and to be authentic to my self  or do I want my finances in order and my future employment in a safe space...... I am very torn up about what to do and my next appointment is Monday which is coming up too fast.  I was considering saying I was too sick to go in......see where this is going.....Karma

Edited March 22, 2017 by LRyan

[JustinS]

@LRyan Here is a video of her doing the work on prison inmates. Great stuff but the truth can be a tough pill to swallow. Enjoy my friend!  

 http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/8813/Prison-of-the-Mind

[mostly harmless]

On 22. März 2017 at 3:45 PM, LRyan said:

what disturbs me the most is that I thought I was flawed because of bad things that happened to me but if I realize that I come from a perfect source straight from the universe than am I not whole and perfect as I am?  Are we all not perfect and whole but we just don't realize it?

You should watch Ajahn Brahm on self compassion

 

If you live in a country where you have to pay for psychotherapy, then a buddhist society could be an alternative. Seriously. Some of the best psychologist borrow buddhist perspectives, knowledge and techniques.

[LRyan]

I like the videos, he has a good sense of humour as well!  Thanks!    I like the buddhist perspective for sure...

[Charl]

On 23.3.2017 at 6:32 AM, JustinS said:

@LRyan Here is a video of her doing the work on prison inmates. Great stuff but the truth can be a tough pill to swallow. Enjoy my friend!  

 http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/8813/Prison-of-the-Mind

So touching! Especially the openness of the inmates