But Leo... How is it possible that no other teachers are AWAKE?

[OldManCorcoran]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Exactly. My question had a trick... 

It depends when you draw the line. If you guys want infinity so much (the other "minor" limited pleasures are not of interest for you), then you guys should have gone to a cave or an ashram already. Yet, you guys are here, in the material game. 

Why? 

Having said that, is not even fair that you guys reduce everything to your infinity experiences and everything else.

Some of you guys think that you have seen it all with psychedelic peaks. And indeed I could say that if one could resign from material life, probably what a psychedelic or 5-meo peak offers is the best peak.

But if still playing in the material game, then there are states of consciousness to be really at ease and at peace *while playing the material game.

So my question is, why rejecting this. At the end of the day, 99% of humanity is seeking this states, just in unconscious ways: sex, smoking, speeding the bike at 200km/h, etc...

So unless you guys are special, or you guys are bullshitting in some way...

What is the biker seeking throttling to 250km/h? The same the monk is seeking! Total intensity, time collapses, dissolution of body.

There might not be a conscious recognition like in a 5-Meo trip, but the seeking of breaking the bondage is there. Everyone is going after it.

There is a WHOLE universe of states between sober lame anxious state of consciousness Vs Peak Infinity total liberation. If still playing the material game and not wanting to go to a cave yet, you might as well know how to bliss yourself while doing normal stuff. (But not speeding, that would be also an unconscious way)

 

As you pointed out earlier... I can't help but notice the amount of "muh feels" in posts by people seeking enlightenment. Seems so much focus is on being "blissful" or "escaping suffering" for people who turn to weird spiritual paths out of desperation to get away from extreme pain and mental illness.

There are some people who have top tier lives here. There's an intellectual drive to discover what reality is, too. That approach is going to be very different because those people simply do not care at all about emotions or suffering. They are content as they are.

I experimented with psychedelic drugs through curiosity alone, and out of the many experiments encountered something real and genuine which I was not expecting (in total ego death). All this following is trying to understand or verify what happened to me.

[Javfly33]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

The line is: do you want to realize the truth, or not? 

I don't know what is Truth. So I can't say if I want to realize it or not, since I don't even know what it is.

After some time I completely changed my focus in spirituality, I stopped trying to achieve any object of knowing, that being the so called "enlightment" or "spirituality". Maybe I was not spirituality gifted, and this Truth is possible for other beings, but I'm not interested.

Something as enlightement or truth I have never seen or met, except the ego or mind, trying to say that "THAT" is truth or enlightment. But that is a trick I have seen too much times and I don't fall anymore. Careful with the mind and is obsession to try to "grasp" reality.

I just know states of being. 

There are better states of being and worse. As a human, I seek higher and higher states of being. I don't feel guilty for this, just really smart for having realized this lol. All humans are doing this, the question is are you using the right tools or not, are you doing in conscious ways (directly activating consciousness-intelligence) or compulsively (sex, drugs, experiences). Etc.

 

6 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

 

There are some people who have top tier lives here. There's an intellectual drive to discover what reality is, too. That approach is going to be very different because those people simply do not care at all about emotions or suffering. They are content as they are.

 

The thing is, top material life does not necessarily mean ACTUAL Exuberance/Joyful experience of life.

A homeless in L.A. that just injected Heroin is having a more Top experience of life during the next 30minutes than most TOP CEO's in the world.

This is not to tell go become homeless and drug addict. This is just to say, that you telling me they have great material achievements doesn't tell me a lot.

Well, it tells me that they are at a certain baseline, and I applaud that. But chances are, they haven't touched certain intense blissful and relaxation states, then they would not be typing in a forum with such complacency about their state of consciousness. Once you touch Gold you won't ever say "I'm Ok with Bronze!". Impossible. 

You guys can't just talk about Blissfulness if you haven't had a true experience of feeling a King within your own skin and mind. And, psychedelics are not the usual chemicals that can give you a peak into this "Feeling Like a King" states of consciousness, unfortunately (but they can definitely provide Euphoria and is certain Loving/Release states that also are very good of course) And no, this is not exclusive to drugs. I have verified and lived this states with and without drugs. In fact I encourage always people to have faith that sober methods are more powerful than people think.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Javfly33

[Anon212]

@Leo Gura  Rupert Spira calls it ordinary but other teachers don't, I remember watching a video on Sadhguru exclusive and he said that he could instantly raise someones consciousness by extreme amounts but they would be terrified, their pants would be full of piss and shit and there would be vomit all over the floor. He made it clear that it is no joke.

[OldManCorcoran]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

The thing is, top material life does not necessarily mean ACTUAL Exuberance/Joyful experience of life.

A homeless in L.A. that just injected Heroin is having a more Top experience of life during the next 30minutes than most TOP CEO's in the world.

This is not to tell go become homeless and drug addict. This is just to say, that you telling me they have great material achievements doesn't tell me a lot.

Well, it tells me that they are at a certain baseline, and I applaud that. But chances are, they haven't touched certain intense blissful and relaxation states, then they would not be typing in a forum with such complacency about their state of consciousness. Once you touch Gold you won't ever say "I'm Ok with Bronze!". Impossible. 

You guys can't just talk about Blissfulness if you haven't had a true experience of feeling a King within your own skin and mind. And, psychedelics are not the usual chemicals that can give you a peak into this "Feeling Like a King" states of consciousness, unfortunately (but they can definitely provide Euphoria and is certain Loving/Release states that also are very good of course) And no, this is not exclusive to drugs. I have verified and lived this states with and without drugs. In fact I encourage always people to have faith that sober methods are more powerful than people think.

Exactly as I am right now, I don't want for anything.

I actually think neutral contentment is the most pleasant feeling. When I was 14 there was a point I recall where I was in the car with my mom driving and I was just overcome with a total, absolute, contentment for some reason, and blurted out "I'm so happy". It didn't feel euphoric or necessarily joyous, I just felt perfect. I recall that specific random event all these years later.

Right now I feel completely content. I am not worried about anything, I have everything I need, I am comfortable. I am absolutely content exactly as I am. I don't care about gold or platinum or whatever else, I don't want anything different than what is happening right now.

[VoidJumper]

Been rereading Jed McKenna. Here is a quote from Damndest. Do with it whatever you will:

 

Chris has his hand firmly on the tiller of his life. He's in control. He's making the decisions and he's determining his own fate. Captain of his own destiny may be how he thinks of it—his own man. If I were some revered master in Japan, Chris is one of those guys who would slave in the kitchen for ten years without ever speaking with me. If I taught with results in mind, Chris would never even be allowed to open a book or converse on spiritual matters until we pried his hands off the tiller. Rigid ego can scuttle the ship before it gets clear of the harbor. I've watched much smarter people than myself, much braver people than myself, break their ships fatally on the rocks because they were too full of themselves to release control. This stuff isn't about brains and balls, it's about desire and flow and purity of intent.

 

[Breakingthewall]

41 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

This stuff isn't about brains and balls, it's about desire and flow and purity of intent.

 

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

Without brain and balls, nothing to do in spirituality. Desire, flow and purity, surrender , of course it's essential 

[PurpleTree]

9 hours ago, Anon212 said:

@Leo Gura  Rupert Spira calls it ordinary but other teachers don't, I remember watching a video on Sadhguru exclusive and he said that he could instantly raise someones consciousness by extreme amounts but they would be terrified, their pants would be full of piss and shit and there would be vomit all over the floor. He made it clear that it is no joke.

And why do you believe that? Where is the proof

[Yimpa]

10 hours ago, Anon212 said:

@Leo Gura  Rupert Spira calls it ordinary but other teachers don't, I remember watching a video on Sadhguru exclusive and he said that he could instantly raise someones consciousness by extreme amounts but they would be terrified, their pants would be full of piss and shit and there would be vomit all over the floor. He made it clear that it is no joke.

49 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

And why do you believe that? Where is the proof

It’s in the pudding. 

[Javfly33]

9 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

Exactly as I am right now, I don't want for anything.

I actually think neutral contentment is the most pleasant feeling. When I was 14 there was a point I recall where I was in the car with my mom driving and I was just overcome with a total, absolute, contentment for some reason, and blurted out "I'm so happy". It didn't feel euphoric or necessarily joyous, I just felt perfect. I recall that specific random event all these years later.

Right now I feel completely content. I am not worried about anything, I have everything I need, I am comfortable. I am absolutely content exactly as I am. I don't care about gold or platinum or whatever else, I don't want anything different than what is happening right now.

Then I won't be the one to spoil your contentment of course.

I can't relate, because in my experience EVERYTHING has been a state of consciousness/state of being, so that which is Unlimited always seeks the most pure unbounded state of Being/Consciousness. 

Unlimited Being does not like bounds. 

In spirituality we start by letting go of mental and psychological bounds, but there is a still a big bound: Physicality (or the belief of it). 

Is great that you are content and very comfortable where you are.

However my theory is, every move your fingers made today to type your reply, was with the same motive all beings are doing every act: To move closer and closer to that state of no Limits, of No Bounds. 

And I would bet also, all those words (I am comfortable, I am content) is something that the mind and ego says, not YOU.

YOU will always want the Platinum. Because Platinum wants Platinum, not Bronce. Truth wants Truth, not half Truth.

But that is my opinion, I definetely don't want to downplay any type of comfortable life you have worked or stabilise yourself into it. That's good. But I bet, you won't be stopping there. Is just a bet, I could be wrong  

Edited July 19, 2023 by Javfly33

[Christoph Werner]

@Leo Gura Is the intelligence of alien consciousness higher that the intelligence of formless consciousness?

Will there be any free content on alien consciousness?

Is alien consciousness a higher teaching than love?

How much love do you experience in your day to day life as a human? 

How important is it to awaken to a point where love becomes your baseline experience of life and did you achieve that, and if not, why not?

 

[112233]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:51 AM, Leo Gura said:

No. Sometime this year is my plan.

What happened to this? It seems you are releasing a different course soon on work w/ the subconscious mind.... will this include protocols w/ psychedelics as discussed prior? Or is this course something completely different?

 

I've been waiting for a more comprehensive explanation about your personal use w/ psychedelics (drug, dosage, ROA, harm reduction, set & setting, etc.)... I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed that this hasn't come out yet and would be even more disappointed if this new course did not cover these things. 

 

Any info about what's going on here would be greatly appreciated. I am a psychotherapist currently training for psychedelic assisted therapy and taking a closer look at your personal experience would be of great use to me and my clients. I think sharing what you have done / are doing with psychedelic work specifically would be a useful anecdote to add to our collective understanding of how folk are using these drugs and getting results....

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, 112233 said:

I am a psychotherapist currently training for psychedelic assisted therapy

Interesting! In my opinion, you should first become a psychonaut with enough experience. The best tools imo for therapy are 5meo and mushrooms. mdma can also be helpful

[112233]

On 8/9/2024 at 1:11 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Interesting! In my opinion, you should first become a psychonaut with enough experience. The best tools imo for therapy are 5meo and mushrooms. mdma can also be helpful

100% agree, this is why I was looking forward to hearing anecdotally how Leo specifically goes about his use to help contextualize how we are using and where there may be better ways to go about this. One can argue that therapy and spirituality would have different approaches, which may have some merit, however there is much more overlap than some folk realize. There is good data on the quality of the experience itself and the therapeutic benefit (see research on the Mystical Experience Questionnaire). That is, usually the higher someone scores on the MEQ, the better the therapeutic effect.

 

Very curious to observe Leo over the years continually emphasize that things cannot be understood w/ intellect and must be experienced directly, yet has been pretty lackluster when it comes to comprehensive protocols for use. I am aware of his Psychedelics playlist on YT as well as various relevant posts on the blog. I was hoping he would put out material with more specificity instead of talking about "psychedelics" generally. I was also hoping that this material would focus on himself specifically, instead of trying to generalize to a larger population. That is, simply share what he has been doing and what works for him. No need to try and make it about other people, that aim would be impossible anyway as people are so different...

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, 112233 said:

One can argue that therapy and spirituality would have different approaches, which may have some merit, however there is much more overlap than some folk realize

There are one class of people who want patches, and another class of people who want to really dig deep. For the latter, psychedelics are a huge tool.

1 hour ago, 112233 said:

Very curious to observe Leo over the years continually emphasize that things cannot be understood w/ intellect and must be experienced directly, yet has been pretty lackluster when it comes to comprehensive protocols for use

Leo is absolutely focused in mysticism in a way that in my opinion, in a way denies the human, he's totally focused in understanding, and most of people are interested in liberation. so I don't think that for your purpose you will find anything useful in it. You want patients who delve deeper into themselves without a fixed destination. They do not have to enter into themselves looking for God, that's alienating . they have to enter into themselves to the core, open their minds and hearts completely, without reservation and expectation. the mind must be empty to do that. Any knowledge must be left behind, and then you will be able to see yourself without barriers, without a filter, as deep as you can, maybe you don't get enlightenment, or god or anything, but you will know yourself and be one with yourself, integrity, and that's is a lot. Even if you still are suffering, you will be much more conscious of yourself. Then, who knows where you could arrive, hopefully to the clean emptiness, the pure opening with stain, the absolute acceptation of yourself as a whole, as reality, and be free. Hallelujah. But that's difficult, The psyche sucks you in like a monstrous squid, and thrusts its tentacles into you. It's just an energy, nothing really, an energy that I feed, but its so difficult stopping doing it. Without that, you are absolutely open, you are an openenss. That shit is a door very difficult to remove, at first without big dose of psychedelic many times, for most of the people it's impossible. 

 

[Dodo]

On 12/07/2023 at 8:35 PM, Leo Gura said:

There's just more consciousness beyond what Spira and Ralston can access through sober self-inquiry and meditation.

It should not be so surprising that the sober human mind is very limited no matter how hard it tries. You just cannot overcome your chemical limits through hard work. No amount of hard work by a chimpanzee will make it understand reality as well as a human. This is very obvious if you think about it for a bit. And then all you have to realize is that a human being cannot be the pinnacle of consciousness in this Universe. That is such a silly assumption.

But Leo, you are human! You do pickup and stuff, right, you like women? Human takes the drugs. Human write on forum. Human did all those things. With your magic hands ✋️ 

 

 Also, cant know what another's experience is. Maybe there is a fully enlightened chimpanzee out there, beyond even your level.

But anyway, if you havent chosen the sober path,  how can you know what fruits it might bring 

 

Edited August 13 by Dodo

[Applegarden8]

@Leo Gura but Leo, if other teachers are not awake because they are sober, how can they express some degree of siddhis and they can consecrate spaces where that effect will stay for at least thousands of years. While you might have some part that you have explored of consciousness, they might aswell have something you or me don't.

Edited August 17 by Applegarden8

[BlueOak]

I am not a human mind, I (we) are the universe focusing things into this human experience in an order I (we) can relay it in communication. It doesn't mean I am sitting here thinking through exactly what to say or completely winging it either (I do allow my ego to correct), I mean this all started unfolding years ago into place now from all the previous experiences we've had and all the things occurring right now around us. Its the same for you, us as a collective; if I call it a pattern I would draw a long curling line going through your/our life, that's the best way I can give you infinity right now in words. It's the connections in your mind from one subject to the next, from one distinction or experience you've had to the other. Changed exactly as intended by everyone else talking to you.

A way to prepare someone for alien consciousness would be to continually put them in situations for which they had no or a limited frame of reference for. This is why drugs work, but so does meditation with allowance for whatever to happen, or just living life if you are not scared to go do things you've never done before. Free-flowing creation and art also works in this way, allowance for whatever happens to happen.

Edited August 17 by BlueOak