But Leo... How is it possible that no other teachers are AWAKE?

[Blackhawk]

On 2023-07-16 at 6:14 PM, Moksha said:

Ultimately the end of suffering is the direct realization of truth.

And why should anyone believe that?

Because a random anonymous person in a forum called "Moksha" says so? Or because some popular guru called "Eckhart" says so?

[Inliytened1]

28 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

There are even mods who think they have become "enlightened" by staring at their hands...

So meditation doesn't work?  Guess you need thousands of psychedelic trips like @Artem

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

.He probably DOES wear sandals too. Lmfao... What a fucking chumpmade bitch.

Damn, Sandals? 
 

Life’s a beach ain’t it?

[OldManCorcoran]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

So meditation doesn't work?  Guess you need thousands of psychedelic trips like @Artem

There is a VERY GOOD reason that even many people who engage in intense meditation practice for years, pay thousands of dollars to fly out to South America to smoke toad in a safe environment.

If you could stare at your hands and have a genuine mystical encounter, nobody would bother to go on these trips. They could just sit in the comfort of their homes.

It is 99.9% chance that you are deluding yourself. You almost definitely don't just have "amazing genes" that mean you can look at your hands and enter the state produced by inhaling toad vapor. You should at least do the latter so as to be able to compare. And not the babby "handshake" but a full release dose. Then you will see if you really had been encountering such things.

Don't underestimate just how important skepticism is. Truth and fact conquers all. Truth always wins over skepticism, because it is rigorous and unmoving, truth can never be toppled because it IS TRUE. Skepticism filters out everything that isn't true... Mystics should be more skeptical than anyone else in existence because they are on a mission to find ultimate truth.

[Thought Art]

Imagine trying to eat food while you drink water. 
 

That’s mediation vs psychedelics. 
 

Not in the sense that psychedelics are food, and meditation is water. The roles could be reversed. What matters is, is that you awaken, if you want that. If you don’t want that and you want to enjoy a particular method or practice or vibe, enjoy that too. But, don’t take it as awakening. 
 

Without certain chemicals in the brain, you can’t know things. All of your humanity is a construct. So, adding a chemical into the construct that is already relatively arbitrary, you realize that all techniques and technology if they work are useful in this pursuit of awakening, becoming conscious and pursuing a good life.

Mediation, yoga, contemplation, Qigong, etc etc… enjoy them, as they are part of the tapestry of human spiritual living. It’s in the doing, the pursuing and the enjoying of being… that life is beautiful.
 

Focus more on waking up and being conscious than a particular attachment to a method, technique, school of thought, etc. 

Spirituality is a tapestry. Enjoy being alive. 
 

Wake up, if you want. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Thought Art

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

There is a VERY GOOD reason that even many people who engage in intense meditation practice for years, pay thousands of dollars to fly out to South America to smoke toad in a safe environment.

If you could stare at your hands and have a genuine mystical encounter, nobody would bother to go on these trips. They could just sit in the comfort of their homes.

It is 99.9% chance that you are deluding yourself. You almost definitely don't just have "amazing genes" that mean you can look at your hands and enter the state produced by inhaling toad vapor. You should at least do the latter so as to be able to compare. And not the babby "handshake" but a full release dose. Then you will see if you really had been encountering such things.

Don't underestimate just how important skepticism is. Truth and fact conquers all. Truth always wins over skepticism, because it is rigorous and unmoving, truth can never be toppled because it IS TRUE. Skepticism filters out everything that isn't true... Mystics should be more skeptical than anyone else in existence because they are on a mission to find ultimate truth.

It isn't JUST genes.  How old are you?  You are definitely not the age of your picture.   I am.  I will be 53 in August and my enlightenment came at 48. That was after years of egoic selfishness, suffering, and mental illness.   What sealed it, though, was love.    Deep suffering for a person I lost.  Then and only then- did I stumble onto spirituality.  At that point everything had already fallen into place.   So yeah, all I did was stare at my hand.   Add a slice of self inquiry as well.  Quite vital.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Javfly33]

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Exactly. all that about avoiding suffering has nothing to do with opening up to infinity, with awakening. suffering is part of reality. Another thing is that since it is uncomfortable and annoying, we use our intelligence to minimize it, just as we minimize an invasion of insects at home, and awakening helps a lot  .but awakening = not suffer, bullshit. You can be the most awake guy in the world, or in the alien galaxy, that if they lock you in a box for a year, you will suffer.

 

I feel the forum is divided between people who value experiences/exploration/diverse states of knowledge, etc... Vs well being/not suffering/pleasure first.

One must be honest with what one really wants/seeks. 

[Thought Art]

22 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

 

I feel the forum is divided between people who value experiences/exploration/diverse states of knowledge, etc... Vs well being/not suffering/pleasure first.

One must be honest with what one really wants/seeks. 

I’ll take it all ?

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

I’ll take it all ?

 

2 hours ago, Vibes said:

Indeed. This 'choosing' thing is too limited. 

If you can...

[tuku747]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I feel the forum is divided between people who value experiences/exploration/diverse states of knowledge, etc... Vs well being/not suffering/pleasure first.

In the Law of One, this is discussed as the delicate balance between Love/Wisdom.

In the end, it is realized that Love is Wisdom.

So it is wise to ask oneself:

Edited July 18, 2023 by tuku747

[Water by the River]

Just now, tuku747 said:

In the Law of One, this is discussed as delicate balance between Love/Wisdom. In the end, it is realized that Love is Wisdom. So it is wise to ask oneself:

Yes. At the end of the day they are the same properties of ones True Core. Sat-Chit-Ananda. It is one and the same, and one can't be fully had without the other.

And for passing the Gateless Gate, and not the Awakening n+1: Reality tends to demands a huge amount of love/compassion also. Every spiritual tradition has practices for that at its core.

Water by the River

[UnbornTao]

Listen: focus on your own consciousness.

Study Ramana.

[tuku747]

1 minute ago, Water by the River said:

Yes. At the end of the day they are the same properties of ones True Core. Sat-Chit-Ananda. It is one and the same, and one can't be fully had without the other.

And for passing the Gateless Gate, and not the Awakening n+1: Reality tends to demands a huge amount of love/compassion also. Every spiritual tradition has practices for that at its core.

Water by the River

It could be said that many of the users on this forum are well practiced in jhana yoga, but for whatever reason have been avoiding bhakti yoga. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

I feel the forum is divided between people who value experiences/exploration/diverse states of knowledge, etc... Vs well being/not suffering/pleasure first.

One must be honest with what one really wants/seeks. 

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

there is only one awakening and there is only one truth. infinity, and you are. It is not "knowing" that you are infinite, it is being so now. infinity is flowing love, or a bottomless well of love. realizing this automatically brings that happiness most of those who are in spirituality seek. but what doesn't work is to start looking for love and well-being, detachment, silence, or whatever. you have to seek the truth, ruthlessly. I am, here, now. I want to get to the bottom of this, be it love, a piece of shit, infinite loneliness or the horror of existing without escape. Why? because I am. what more reason is needed? we are crazy? It's obvious, I am. away all the veils. If I have to do 5 meo thousand times, it's done. but people are content with warm cloth, a warm house, and a comfortable bed.  

And then, where is the contradiction between realizing the absolute and realizing more the absolute? why so much denial? how far is it possible? we will see. we are that, existence. opening up to it is what we do. but many prefer to think: no, this is the maximum possible. the scriptures say so. They say that there is something like 5meo? bad, that's bad, I don't want to try it. those who try it are bad. Buddha said it. do you know what this is called? Pharisee

Edited July 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

I think that deep down everyone is seeking the same, which is the truth, but some people just haven't realized it yet, confusing their thoughts, feelings and desires for truth. So I don't think it's really as much of a division as it's people being at different stages of their journey.

Exactly. My question had a trick... 

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

there is only one awakening and there is only one truth. infinity, and you are. It is not "knowing" that you are infinite, it is being so now. infinity is flowing love, or a bottomless well of love. realizing this automatically brings that happiness most of those who are in spirituality seek. but what doesn't work is to start looking for love and well-being, detachment, silence, or whatever. you have to seek the truth, ruthlessly. I am, here, now. I want to get to the bottom of this, be it love, a piece of shit, infinite loneliness or the horror of existing without escape. Why? because I am. what more reason is needed? we are crazy? It's obvious, I am. away all the veils. If I have to do 5 meo thousand times, it's done. but people are content with warm cloth, a warm house, and a comfortable bed.  

And then, where is the contradiction between realizing the absolute and realizing more the absolute? why so much denial? how far is it possible? we will see. we are that, existence. opening up to it is what we do. but many prefer to think: no, this is the maximum possible. the scriptures say so. They say that there is something like 5meo? bad, that's bad, I don't want to try it. those who try it are bad. Buddha said it. do you know what this is called? Pharisee

It depends when you draw the line. If you guys want infinity so much (the other "minor" limited pleasures are not of interest for you), then you guys should have gone to a cave or an ashram already. Yet, you guys are here, in the material game. 

Why? 

Having said that, is not even fair that you guys reduce everything to your infinity experiences and everything else.

Some of you guys think that you have seen it all with psychedelic peaks. And indeed I could say that if one could resign from material life, probably what a psychedelic or 5-meo peak offers is the best peak.

But if still playing in the material game, then there are states of consciousness to be really at ease and at peace *while playing the material game.

So my question is, why rejecting this. At the end of the day, 99% of humanity is seeking this states, just in unconscious ways: sex, smoking, speeding the bike at 200km/h, etc...

So unless you guys are special, or you guys are bullshitting in some way...

What is the biker seeking throttling to 250km/h? The same the monk is seeking! Total intensity, time collapses, dissolution of body.

There might not be a conscious recognition like in a 5-Meo trip, but the seeking of breaking the bondage is there. Everyone is going after it.

There is a WHOLE universe of states between sober lame anxious state of consciousness Vs Peak Infinity total liberation. If still playing the material game and not wanting to go to a cave yet, you might as well know how to bliss yourself while doing normal stuff. (But not speeding, that would be also an unconscious way)

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Javfly33

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Buddha said it. do you know what this is called? Pharisee

Are you interested in a "real" Pharisee story? Which I think is quite likely?

The historical Buddha probably never existed. Yes, right. His story (hagiography, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagiography), is pretty much the same as the founder of Jainism. I think that this version is very likely.

Crowley, Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana

"It is customary to assume that the Buddha was a historical character (even iconoclasts like Trevor Ling do not question his historicity) but parallels with non-Buddhist systems raise a suspicion that this may not be so. It is no longer believed that there was an ancient Greek poet called Homer who composed the Iliad and Odyssey. These “Homeric” epics are now understood to be compiled and refined from the compositions of many individual storytellers. Might not the teachings of “the Buddha” be analogous? Could the teachings also have been an age-old body of wisdom, analogously compiled, refined and imputed to a single, fictitious author? These teachings would have been transmitted orally but eventually, when writing systems arrived, transcribed as suttas. The earliest Buddhist art does not depict the Buddha as a person, but merely in symbolic form. In these so-called “aniconic” images, he may be shown as a parasol, an empty throne, pillar of fire or a pair of footprints. Could this be an acknowledgment that “the Buddha” was not a person in the normal meaning of the word?

There is a strange feature of the Buddha’s biography which rarely receives comment and that is its similarity to the life of Vardhaman. Also known as Mahāvira (literally, “great man”), Vardhaman was son of a king, born with the 32 major and minor signs of his body. His father, the king, consulted wise men who foretold that he was destined to become a world-ruling emperor or a great spiritual leader. The wise men advise the king that to prevent him becoming a great sage, he must keep his son distracted with amusements. This the king does until, as an adult, Vardhaman escapes from the palace, meditates in the forest and achieves enlightenment. He teaches a non-Vedic path which, he says, is called Jainism. Anyone who knows the life of the Buddha will recognize all this as the same story. Even so, I have left out a lot of parallels such as identical personal names of characters in the biographies. Buddhism and Jainism also share many of the same symbols (e.g. a pair of footprints, the parasol, the cow hoofprint or nandi-pada, and the “śrivatsa” symbol). Curiously, many of these symbols are also found on Indus Valley seals."

Interesting conincidence, hm? Like Christianity and Mithraism (For that, see Brian Muraresku or Carl Ruck)...

And for the Buddhists: Anyway, lets get the copycats with the icepicks.... ( :

And for Enligthenment vs. Awakening: It is not because the scriptures say so, but the Enlighened Ones across all traditions & times. The hallmark of Enlightenment, besides realizing Absolute Reality, is the Deep Realization of what the end of psychological suffering is: The end of the separate self. You become the Infinite All, not trace of separation left or not seen through. One can have all kinds of Awakenings... Until that distinct Realization it is Awakening n+1...  . Enlightenment is Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness understanding/realizing/being itself, not a subtle separate self awakening to Infinity. Impersonal, Silent, Absolute. Containing and being it all.

Anyway, I am not going to convince anybody by logic. And until the suffering stops, one will keep walking ones path, by definition. So just continue practicing in whatever way one resonates with (5 MeO, meditation, whatever), and stay open... Bon voyage!

How one gets to Enlightenment: I am very open to all paths. But I have never seen one psychedelic-afficionado who did this without further practices. Could be that there are, but I am not aware of one. If anybody knows someone, let me know. On the other side, I know quite some who are enlightened (not the n+1, the real thing).

So lets just continue watching the show evolving here, and lets see if its happy ever after, or continued however one wants to call it.

Water by the River 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

And for Enligthenment vs. Awakening: It is not because the scriptures say so, but the Enlighened Ones across all traditions & times. The hallmark of Enlightenment, besides realizing Absolute Reality, is the Deep Realization of what the end of psychological suffering is: The end of the separate self. You become the Infinite All, not trace of separation left or not seen through. One can have all kinds of Awakenings... Until that distinct Realization it is Awakening n+1...  . Enlightenment is Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness understanding/realizing/being itself, not a subtle separate self awakening to Infinity. Impersonal, Silent, Absolute. Containing and being it all.

In this very moment my suffering is zero. Am I enlightened? Right now I am truly aware that I am infinite, the separation between me and experience is zero. let's say there is no me, or everything is me, is the same. am i enlightened? to what point? completely? no, I am simply at a high level of consciousness, in which I realize that there is obviously no separation between anything, that this experience that is happening is completely direct, completely unlimited, that is, infinite, and therefore it is the total existence, the absolute, and everything is contained in it. since absolutely everything is infinite. But if tomorrow they tell me that my business is broken, they also have to amputate my penis and they deport me to North Korea, my level of consciousness will get down, to the survival point, and I will suffer. And?

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

depends when you draw the line

The line is: do you want to realize the truth, or not? 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

I think that deep down everyone is seeking the same, which is the truth, but some people just haven't realized it yet, confusing their thoughts, feelings and desires for truth. So I don't think it's really as much of a division as it's people being at different stages of their journey.

What is untruthful about thoughts, feelings, and desires?

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, itsadistraction said:

I posted this entire post in the immaturity examples mega thread check it out ? it's definitely a mindfuck

Oh wow, I was considering doing that a couple days ago. 

Thanks!

[SOUL]

In a world where one trusts it is truth that alien insanity is real and actual life isn't real, people will endlessly argue about things that that take place in their imagination. /movietrailervoice