But Leo... How is it possible that no other teachers are AWAKE?

[Artem]

On 7/13/2023 at 4:33 PM, Leo Gura said:

Sorry, I don't buy this is at all. That's not how psychedelics work.

You do not yet understand how psychedelics work.

On 7/13/2023 at 4:33 PM, Leo Gura said:

And NOBODY here is walking around in a default state of 5-MeO-DMT consciousness. NOBODY! Don't bullshit yourselves.

I am.

I am not able to detect low and medium doses of 5-MeO-DMT at all, and a heavy dose is a 1-2 minute relaxation experience for me. Needless to say, it wasn't always the case.

On 7/13/2023 at 4:33 PM, Leo Gura said:

I wasted an enormous about of time on self-inquiry and taking various enlightenment teachers too seriously. Wasted a lot of time doubting myself too much.

You should doubt yourself, you are not yet awake. Why are you hiding from me, my boy?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Artem

[Artem]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:09 PM, Leo Gura said:

I am not walking around in anything like a permanent 5-MeO-DMT state. That is impossible. I would be dead if I was that conscious by default. And anyone who claims that that is possible is lying. And anyone who claims their enlightenment reaches that level of consciousness is lying.

It is possible and I am. You wouldn't be dead, only your ego would be dead. You are your ego. I am not lying, I can prove it to you. My enlightenment does reach this level of consciousness. If you call me a liar, why won't you do it to my face?

[Artem]

20 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

On second thought, I would say that psychedelics don't have an effect on you because you don't have an ego is completely bullshit. 5meo dmt minimizes neuronal symapsis in the frontal lobe. With a high dose, you will not see anything with your eyes open, nor will you have physical coordination. It doesn't matter how awake you are. It's like saying that if you're enlightened, propofol doesn't take effect, or a shot to the head.

It's possible that it's simply a matter of dosage. I can certainly casually smoke 5-MeO DMT and even smoke it deeply while having a completely ordinary conversation with you, the same dose that would bring terror or complete incapacitation in most people, just like it would for me at the beginning of my spiritual journey.

[Artem]

19 hours ago, Water by the River said:

He wrote:

He referred to light and medium 5-MeO-DMT doses. Not high doses of 5-MeO.

Typical effects of psychedelics are (among other effects)

• Nonduality,
• Ego-dissolution (to a pretty high degree, although not the complete dissolving of any form of separate-self/individuality/transparent nondual witness merged in Unity with the Totality), and
• the visual field becoming an infinite centerless mere apperance-like "hovering" in Infinite Consciousness..

So when the separate-self is dissolved anyway/already, and Enlightenment has happened, the effects of psychedelics will change and be different. And less. The impact pf psychedelics is not as dramatic, because the things described above are already in place.

These three points/states above are in Zen already Enlightenments/Satoris/Kenshos/Awakenings. But not Great/Full Enlightenment, where the separate-self is fully transcended, and Reality/Impersonal Infinite Consciousness fully realized.

I have yet to see somebody who crossed over to Full Enlightenment only/mainly with psychedelics, with the full Deep Identity Level Shift towards Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Totality, and no separate-self left anywhere (however subtle). The subtle remaining separate-self of Individuality is still clouding the mindstream, blocking the Full Realization of Impersonal Infinite Awareness, well and alive causing suffering.

One gets 95% of the benefits of Nonduality and Infinite Consciousness already with psychedelics (the points above, energetic awakened states), but not the full impersonal thing... And that is quantum, like night and day. It is the death of the caterpillar, and the birth of the butterfly. The return home. The end of suffering. 

Main problem: Before it actually happens, one can't imagine or understand it. Because if one could, one would already be fully enlightened. 

Although that remaining Individuality/separate-self can be almost totally empty, very subtle, a transparent nondual witness... The cloud/lense/center is still there, even during all the trips... and sometimes mumbling about rodents and other parts of its experience field in less than loving way.

Breakingthewall, just an idea: Why not visit him at some time in the future, and see for yourself? Maybe even do some trips together? If he is the real deal and enlightened, you will be able verify that quite fast for yourself from the states he radiates, and what states he induces in you.

Selling Water by the River

 

 

It wasn't only psychedelics, of course. Psychedelics is basically meditation on steroids. I have spend thousands of hours in meditation, with and without psychedelics.

[Artem]

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I read his site, and I said that his "enlightenment" is  A kind of limitation. reality is not "nothing", reality is limitless. Everything. 

He emphasizes the emptiness of the mind, the absence of the ego, the control of emotions. He says that children are born enlightened but education corrupts them. all that is superficial imo. 

It appears superficial to you, because you are superficial.

[Artem]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Artem

If you make a claim like you can do 1200 ug of lsd with no effect, or high doses of 5meo with no effect, you have to prove it. Witnesses, video, brain scan, whatever. it is as if I say: since I reached enlightenment I can walk on the waters. if you don't show it, you're automatically a phony.

I have many witnesses. Come see me.

[Artem]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not something to be proud of. The more conscious you get the smaller doses you need to feel its effects.

False.

[Artem]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

BS. You can always be more conscious than you are.

No, it is not possible to be more conscious for a Buddha. It also becomes an impossibility to meditate. Meditating for me is just sitting there, doing nothing and it's not any less pleasurable or difficult than doing something. You, my friend, have no idea what you're talking about. You are dangerous to authentic seekers of Truth.

[Artem]

3 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I can already hear the nondualists saying, “But wait, that’s what solipsism is claiming! You hypocrite!”

@Leo Gurais a hypocrite, you are correct.

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Artem said:

It appears superficial to you, because you are superficial.

Ouch, you hurt me ?. 

I'll explain it to you: on your site you present things schematically, you make a clear distinction between awakening and enlightenment, two completely different stages. according to you, enlightenment is the pinnacle of spiritual realization, it is when the ego disappears, there is no more dream, there is no more possible evolution of consciousness. look, reality is infinite. can not it be a different way. you, now, are the infinite being. there is no end or pinnacle in infinity. It is not, as you say, something "normal". It is infinite, it is unimaginable, it is total, it is magic, and it is you. there is no cut between awakening and enlightenment, there are levels of opening, levels of limitation. if your limitation is zero, you are not a human, you are a hole through which infinity sprouts, you cannot walk down the street or eat. you can't live To be a human you need limitation. your definition of enlightenment is, as I said, superficial, not because I am, but because I see much deeper than you

 

[Artem]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Ouch, you hurt me ?. 

I'll explain it to you: on your site you present things schematically, you make a clear distinction between awakening and enlightenment, two completely different stages. according to you, enlightenment is the pinnacle of spiritual realization, it is when the ego disappears, there is no more dream, there is no more possible evolution of consciousness. look, reality is infinite. can not it be a different way. you, now, are the infinite being. there is no end or pinnacle in infinity. It is not, as you say, something "normal". It is infinite, it is unimaginable, it is total, it is magic, and it is you. there is no cut between awakening and enlightenment, there are levels of opening, levels of limitation. if your limitation is zero, you are not a human, you are a hole through which infinity sprouts, you cannot walk down the street or eat. you can't live To be a human you need limitation. your definition of enlightenment is, as I said, superficial, not because I am, but because I see much deeper than you

You don't see deeper than me. If you did, it would be very easy for you to speak to me. But it would be the opposite - it would be extraordinarily easy for me to speak to you, and you would find it difficult to speak to me, and humbling. If you don't believe me, try it. I am available. Speak to me.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Artem said:

You don't see deeper than me. If you did, it would be very easy for you to speak to me. But it would be the opposite - it would be extraordinarily easy for me to speak to you, and you would find it difficult to speak to me, and humbling. If you don't believe me, try it. I am available. Speak to me.

I'm speaking to you here. I can't to speak with you face to face because my English is too weak . But writing is a very good way, because you can think carefully what you want to say . I don't care about energy, charisma y those things, I care about clarity, deep understanding. It's easy to perceive when it's true. 

[Artem]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'm speaking to you here. I can't to speak with you face to face because my English is too weak . But writing is a very good way, because you can think carefully what you want to say . I don't care about energy, charisma y those things, I care about clarity, deep understanding. It's easy to perceive when it's true. 

You don't yet know what is true. Don't worry, I will wait for you to form your thoughts. Right now you are not speaking to me, you are speaking to a computer. You have forgotten what a real life interaction is? It's very different from how you imagine. I do not care about engaging your intellect, your intellect is a hindrance. You only imagine you have or are capable to perceive clarity, because you have none. When you speak to me, it will become obvious to you. Whilst you are hiding, crafting your responses, you are playing a mind game. You need a reality check.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Artem

[Salvijus]

Lol. I need to buy some more popcorns

[Artem]

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

Lol. I need to buy some more popcorns

Lol. They never speak this way to me in person, only over text. Hahaha.

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Artem said:

Lol. They never speak this way to me in person, only over text. Hahaha.

i think i saw a conversation like this on this forum 100s times already. And it never goes well lol

Edited July 15, 2023 by Salvijus

[Artem]

Just now, Salvijus said:

i think i saw a conversation like this on this forum 100s times already. And it never goes well lol

Egos are cowards, what can I say.

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Artem said:

Egos are cowards, what can I say.

You're quite provocative ?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Salvijus

[josemar]

33 minutes ago, Artem said:

You are dangerous to authentic seekers of Truth.

You won't find many of those on this forum anymore, only teenagers and imature ego driven God wanabees ??

[Artem]

Just now, Salvijus said:

You're quite provocative ?

Truth is provocative. ❤️ And @Leo Gurais the biggest coward here.