But Leo... How is it possible that no other teachers are AWAKE?

[Yimpa]

Aww shit!

https://www.actualized.org/insights/actualized-quotes-048

 

No teachers either…?!

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

@Artem

14 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

If you make a claim like you can do 1200 ug of lsd with no effect, or high doses of 5meo with no effect, you have to prove it. Witnesses, video, brain scan, whatever. it is as if I say: since I reached enlightenment I can walk on the waters. if you don't show it, you're automatically a phony.

[gettoefl]

27 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Artem

If you make a claim like you can do 1200 ug of lsd with no effect, or high doses of 5meo with no effect, you have to prove it. Witnesses, video, brain scan, whatever. it is as if I say: since I reached enlightenment I can walk on the waters. if you don't show it, you're automatically a phony.

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/21543740

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you make a claim like you can do 1200 ug of lsd with no effect, or high doses of 5meo with no effect

This is not something to be proud of. The more conscious you get the smaller doses you need to feel its effects.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not something to be proud of. The more conscious you get the smaller doses you need.

until the point that you don't need any at all,

is his claim

because you have arrived

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Leo Gura When you say the word 'understanding' for you that means intellectual understanding? Like, with words? Or is more like a certain perception/subtle Intelligence about what is going on?

Because it seems to me that people might be rejecting this whole thing about understanding, because they think it can be put into words/language.

And it clearly isn't, if not we should be able to 'understand' all of what you understand if you could just tell us with words ?

What understanding is, is such a profound thing, that no one here understands it.

Understanding is a trans-human, trans-intellectual, trans-linguistic, trans-logical function of Universal Mind itself.

There is absolutely no substitute for pure understanding.

When I say understanding, I mean INFINITE MIND comprehending itself. This both includes words and mental images but also transcends them.

You will never understand what I understand no matter how many words I say.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

until the point that you don't need any at all,

is his claim

BS. You can always be more conscious than you are.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[gettoefl]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

BS. You can always be more conscious than you are.

isn't the highest consciousness that you are not unduly bothered by what happens to the limited separate self?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

isn't the highest consciousness that you are not unduly bothered by what happens to the limited separate self?

No. You can achieve that with relatively low levels and lots of training and discipline.

Most of what people call high consciousness is just a ton of training and discipline. But no amount of training and discipline will get you to the highest stages of consciousness because it's not really about you.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But no amount of training and discipline will get you to the highest stages of consciousness because it's not really about you.

I can already hear the nondualists saying, “But wait, that’s what solipsism is claiming! You hypocrite!”

[Javfly33]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When I say understanding, I mean INFINITE MIND comprehending itself. This both includes words and mental images but also transcends them.

You will never understand what I understand no matter how many words I say.

Got it, that's what I suspected...

[Leo Gura]

You cannot effort your way into the highest levels of consciousness.

Just like you cannot effort your way to walk to Mars.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Got it, that's what I suspected...

But you can build your own understanding that is unique from mine.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not something to be proud of. The more conscious you get the smaller doses you need to feel its effects.

He said that each time he needed smaller doses, that he even had a complete trip with 2 puffs of weed, but that one day the event that he calls enlightenment occurred, and that from that moment on he is completely immune to any psychedelic. He talks about this coherently, it might be interesting to see to what extent what he says is true or if he is an intentional fraud looking for profit.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/21543740

Seems total 100% bullshit. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Artem]

On 7/13/2023 at 0:12 PM, RedLine said:

He is right.

Arahats are not affected by pschycodelics, confirmed by arahats:  Daniel Ingram, Frank Yang, Michael Taft, Shinzen Young, Erhart Tolle and the Ram Dass histroy about Neem Karoli Baba.

I would like to issue a correction.

Arhats would still be affected by psychedelics, only Buddhas aren't. The story of Ram Dass is true, but I have personally spoken to most people on your list, and I would be literally shocked if they weren't affected by 1,200ug of LSD.

Daniel Ingram is an Arhat, yes, it was obvious to me when we spoke, but he is not a Buddha. We spoke two times on video, and he told me that if he's ever in Bay Area and has the time, he will give me a holler. I would love to spend some time with him in person. I am surprised to hear that you say he "confirmed" that LSD doesn't affect him. To the best of my knowledge, he never made such claim. Quite the opposite, he found my state very unusual, and he was very surprised that I am not affected even by such a massive dose. My understanding is that he is still experiencing cessations. I have experienced thousands of cessations, cessations are no longer possible to experience in complete enlightenment. But he has good insight, and he is wonderful.

Frank Young and I are good friends. Actually, I was quite influential to Frank Young, I just asked him to keep it a secret. He read my stuff himself. He shares my stuff on his Instagram, for which I am very grateful to him, because it helps me grow my audience. He considers me to be "the clearest/purest teacher out there", and he is correct.

I also met Michael Taft, spoke to him and visited his meditation session. Among these three, I would say Michael's insight is the shallowest. There's no chance in hell 1,200ug would not basically floor him. He certainly still has a lot of ego, without a doubt. He even failed to recognize me, his compassion isn't entirely authentic, it is contrived, he likes to create experiences in meditation (which is a bad form of practice) and claims that he "feels" energy from other people. None of that is possible in enlightenment. Not a single person cried in a one hour long meditation session I visited. This is nonsense - people cry in my meditation classes all the time. I also witnessed a student asking him a question and his response was dismissive and inadequate.

I have never met nor spoken to Shinzen Young.

Erhart Tolle, to the best of my knowledge, never made such claims.

Adyashanti once told a story of taking 5 grams of mushrooms (roughly 200ug of LSD), and said something along the lines "nothing changed much". Adyashanti is very deeply realized, without a doubt, but 200ug is still not 1,200ug, and I would be surprised if such a dose would not affect Adya at all. I certainly see some traces of ignorance in Adya, but he is a very, very deeply realized teacher, and his teachings are one of the best out there. I wouldn't put him on par with Osho, no, Osho (just like myself, Mahariji etc) is in its own category, but he is pretty damn close. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Artem]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:02 PM, Salvijus said:

@Artem 

@Leo Gura

Hahaha, I wish it would happen, too, my friend, I'd love for it to happen!

Unfortunately, people like @Leo Guraavoid engaging with an authentic master at all costs, the last thing his ego wants is to speak to me. I would love to speak with him on video, I'd love to speak him at any time! He will back out, not me.

[Artem]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:14 PM, RedLine said:

Yeah, I feel it is all about fully acepting that after death I will dissapear forever which is the idea that I am respressing so hard because it is too terryfing (sometimes it arise during deep sleep and I wake up screaming like crazy), and all that repressing is my ego construction. I am doing hours of that buddhist exhausting meditations everyday and I feel like I am just playing games and it doesnt´do anything. I wanted to do it the "soft way", but it is not working at all...

Yes, it quite often goes like this.

[Artem]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:48 PM, Breakingthewall said:

I haven't read ram Dass, just fragments. I guess he's interesting. but something tells me that his opening is limited.

Correct, Ram Dass was never enlightened. He only got to Sat-Chit-Ananda stage of becoming loving awareness after his stroke, not long before his death. It is not the final stage. But he was a tremendously successful and articulate messenger of enlightenment, and he was not without insight.

[Artem]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:57 PM, Adrian colby said:

I’m not so sure… having watched many people come and go from ceremonies dealing with trauma and ego related issues over and over without resolving anything, I’ve noticed that some people use a substance with the expectation that it is going to fix or heal them (thinking it’s showing them the truth when all they are seeing is a reflection of their own subconscious). They never go away and do the hard work of actually changing their thought process or behaviors. They never bother to stop and observe their own minds or free themselves up from this perpetual victim, self indulged mindset. It’s an endless loop and they never move on. 
 

 Other people who approach substance use as a tool to help observe themselves and how their mind constructs the reality they experience or who are actively ‘seeking’ and discovering the nature of reality, deconstructing reality and getting to know how consciousness works prior to ever taking a substance… of course their ‘traumas’ do arise and they have to deal with them but they seem to get over that phase much quicker and go on to more coherent consciousness exploration ( more possibility opens up including deeper insights and I’m aware you know all of this as you approached it in the same way as part of a toolset for an already existing search for absolute truth). People like this often don’t have bad trips or extremely few( difficult or intense as opposed to terrifying). They are often fairly good at silencing their minds, they often don’t get visuals rather get formless impressions that fuel their insights and spend a lot of time contemplating and integrating and observing daily activities in the same manner.

I don’t think @artems disposition is related to genetics as he’s previously said he’s had psychedelic experiences that are just the same as everyone else’s in the beginning but that there has been a point at which it has changed. I would have been the same so it’s not genetic.

Tolerance? I would have thought that to build up a tolerance to substances, I would have had to use them either fairly regularly or over a long period of time. I’ve had the usual ‘trip’ that anyone else would have in the beginning but there was a point that it changed for me too. The dose doesn’t seem to matter whether it is high or low. And the type of substance no longer matters either. They all can be used to induce the same experiences. As time has gone on I’ve become more sensitive with smaller doses not less sensitive. I’ve also started having those experiences without substances and during a long period of time where I haven’t taken anything in over a year so it’s unlikely it’s a reactivation. I can be in an intense immersive experience surrounded by chaos and colour/ fractals or I can focus my mind and bring myself back into the room as if sober just like @artem described. It doesn’t mean we are more conscious than psychedelics. It means that consciousness has the ability to do that when it is not so rigidly bound within its mind ( or beliefs) and has a better command over itself( more focused).  Eventually reality begins to resemble the trip and insights come directly from observing it. it is, after all consciousness communicating with itself. Everything becomes a metaphor for its own understanding within its own hall of mirrors.

dissolving reality ( the relative) and exploring other realities ( albeit less finite) is something I’ve taken interest in recently. It’s not something that I would have perused because I didn’t believe in it. However, after coming face to face with what consciousness was and was capable of (with the help of psychedelics) I decided not to dismiss it until I had experimented with the possibility and it eventually happened. It wasn’t what people had described it to be but I had finally experienced it from start to finish without loosing consciousness and understood it from direct experience. Doing it without a substance is not easy at all and often very frustrating but it’s something I want to pursue now that I know it is possible.

I maybe mistaken in what @ Artem is saying or even what you’re saying but from what I’m reading of his experiences, I’m finding similarity with my own. I wouldn’t dismiss it, I’d explore it further.

It's not tolerance, I experimented with tolerance, tolerance build up with LSD is massive, yes, but if you wait a couple of weeks, the tolerance is pretty much nil. I once spend the whole week eating 250ug in the morning, 250ug in the afternoon, and 250ug in the evening, and it was just an ordinary week. So I stopped doing it. Nevertheless, when I waited a couple of weeks, it started affecting me again. It was a few years ago. Only now it pretty much stopped affecting me permanently, even in very high doses.