But Leo... How is it possible that no other teachers are AWAKE?

[RedLine]

@Artem 

What is the quickest way to progress in the spiritual path towards enlightment?

 

Also, do you have some blog, youtube channel or something where you publish content?

Edited July 13, 2023 by RedLine

[Moksha]

11 hours ago, Water by the River said:

There are always new and never seen waves possible in the Ocean of Ones True Being. Forever. An Infinity of Infinities. Yet, the wetness of all waves can be realized (Infinite, "IN-finite", not finite, or totally empty, which is the same as infinite potential, since all dualities collapse "there")

Well said, I agree with you and @Bazooka Jesus. 

The waves of the ocean are god's imagination. The silent, seamless depth of the ocean is god's realization.

You can spend your life looking for waves that take you higher, but you are surfing imagination. It is thrilling, but it isn't real. It is unconscious dreaming, not conscious realization.

I guess it depends on your goal. If you are looking for ecstatic experiences, that's fine, just realize they are temporary, and will always be punctuated by periods of dullness and suffering. Ecstasy is the final obstacle to enlightenment.

The alternative, which I consider profoundly more meaningful, is the direct realization of god. It leads you to permanent peace, and freedom from suffering.

[VictorB02]

@Leo Gura if you could have spent less time on some things and more time on others, in regards to pursuing awakening, what would those be? I'm thinking stuff like meditation, breath work, retreats, psychedelics, etc..

Do you think your path had a pretty natural arch or do you wish you would've spent, let's say, way less time meditating? Just curious what your thoughts are now looking back and how you would do it differently if you had another try. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by VictorB02

[thenondualtankie]

19 minutes ago, 112233 said:

@Leo Gura How about you stop trying to explain it and instead delineate the specific protocols used to access such a level? The drug, the dosage, the route of administration, a word on harm reduction, etc.? I understand these variables will vary widely depending on the individual. Simply sharing what you have been doing yourself would be of great use to the community.

As you alluded, the specifics of how Leo did it is quite irrelevant. Leo's main point is that such a state is possible to achieve, and that this was done with years of work with psychedelics. That's the key takeaway.

[Artem]

3 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

If every memory of your existence past age 10 was wiped, you would be back precisely as you were at age 10 (exactly the same)... And you would feel "anger, fear, hatred, jealousy, envy, despair and alike" just as you did at age 10.

If you're immune just go eat a bunch of Datura seed pods and you will quickly see what happens...

No, you don't understand how it works. Please continue your spiritual practice.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

I guess it depends on your goal. If you are looking for ecstatic experiences, that's fine, just realize they are temporary, and will always be punctuated by periods of dullness and suffering. Ecstasy is the final obstacle to enlightenment.

The alternative, which I consider profoundly more meaningful, is the direct realization of god. It leads you to permanent peace, and freedom from suffering.

It's the difference between a visionary and a mystic. Ram Dass, when speaking about the difference between himself and Timothy Leary, said that Tim was the former while he was the latter. That always stuck with me.

[Artem]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All this means is that you have insanely high tolerance and psychdelics do not work with your genetics and metabolism.

No, it doesn't. I have already explained in one of my previous messages that it wasn't always this way, and psychedelics used to affect me tremendously, hugely, just like they are affecting you right now. You probably haven't read it, and jumped to this conclusion because it hasn't yet been your experience.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This does NOT mean that you are somehow more conscious than psychdelics.

Psychedelics cannot be neither conscious nor unconscious, they are a chemical substance. What they do is make your unconscious conscious, that's what they do. They uncover your lies, that's why they are difficult. Every trip is a trip into your unconsciousness, so you become conscious of things you weren't conscious of before. That's why they stop working in enlightenment. The whole spiritual journey is basically making all your unconscious conscious. That's why they used to work very intensely, and then after I made the realization, they slowly, over the course of many years, have stopped working. Meditation does the same.

You still have a lot of unconsciousness and you need serious guidance. I already offered you to speak to me, I am making myself available to you free of charge. If you don't want that, that's okay, it's your journey after all, not mine. But there's absolutely no reason for you to engage or argue with me over text, because a live conversation with me would be very, very different from how you imagine it. As I said in my previous message to you, all masters taught in person and people who have nothing to hide from themselves don't hide from each other either.

All unconsciousness is hiding things from oneself, all unconsciousness is self-deception.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Artem

[RedLine]

What is the best I can do right now in that direction of enlightenment?

Artem Boytsov

Spiritual teacher at True Freedom Teachings (2019–present)Updated 4y

Right now? Nothing. The best thing you can do right now in the direction of enlightenment is try to do literally nothing (beyond what your body needs to survive such as eating).

It will probably be very hard. You will feel restlessness, boredom, anxiety. You will start thinking that it’s all very silly, stupid, you are wasting your time or jeopardizing your chances in life to get ahead. How long will it take? What if I run out of money? Then you will start seeking excuses to do something to relieve yourself from the discomfort of simply being with yourself, with no goal, no agenda.

Observe.

 

 

Can someone reach the enlightenment while living a busy lifestyle inside the society?

Artem Boytsov

Spiritual teacher at True Freedom Teachings (2019–present)4y

No. Sorry, not possible. Enlightenment is focusing inwards, you can’t be both focused inwards and outwards at the same time. The busy lifestyle inside the society will invariably disintegrate, if only temporarily, and the period of isolation is pretty much universal. You have to be ready for it. Once it’s complete, you can return to society but the society will no longer be a part of you

 

 

 

That is not very helpful...

 

You are basically proposing going sucide (metaphorically) mode.  I always have the intuition that it is highly effective but I don´t want to ruin my life. It is a very hard decission. I still think I can follow a regular mediation routine towards elighment and keep goin with my life like Frank Yang or Daniel Ingram did.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by RedLine

[Artem]

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

@Artem you are bullshiting hard. Find some friends in a medical field, purify DMT a few times through recrystallization and ask for an injection by someone qualified. It will knock you out, no fucking way you are immune to that.

No, the only person who's bullshitting hard here is you. Relax, mate, you sound offended.

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

It is possible you have some rare mutation, it’s an interesting area to research.

No, psychedelics stop working gradually as the insight matures. I never had a "rare mutation", they worked well, they worked like fireworks! I already explained it in one of my previous messages, but it looks like you didn't care to read.

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

But if I am sure of one thing it is that there’s a dose and route of administration that will conquer anyone’s idea of enlightenment.

No, this is incorrect because enlightenment is not an idea. For as long as you have some idea about what enlightenment is or will be for you, you are not enlightened. It's quite possible that there's always a dose that will produce some experience (or simply put me to sleep, for example), but no, there is no dose that will change my daily experience of myself, "freak me out", "break me" in any way or something like that. No. All of that was before.

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

You would probably need to be ill, maybe seriously, for psychedelics not to work on you, that’s how crucial serotonin system is in evolution.

Nonsense. I am very physically healthy and completely sane. My life is peaceful and filled with pleasure.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Artem

[Artem]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have a friend who has such a unique metabolism that DMT makes him less conscious, not more.

YOU CANNOT ASSUME THAT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME METABOLISM. Remove that idea from your mind.

It doesn't make them less conscious, it just shows him more of his unconsciousness. If he believes he is fully conscious, he is deluded.

[Artem]

1 hour ago, Girzo said:

I am aware people are different. That’s why I recommend extreme solutions for extreme folks.

I say he is bullshitting if he thinks all other substances work in a similar manner. Also his advice and experiences of enlightenment are not generalizable to other people who have mediocre genetics, if he is indeed special.

All psychedelics work in similar manner. I am not special, there's nothing special about me. It's not about genetics.

[Artem]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Artem  

very interesting, I would like to know more about your spiritual journey 

he doesn't say that. He says that they worked on him when he had an ego, and now that he doesn't, they no longer affect him. nothing genetic 

although he has also said that now a little thc hits him like a full lsd trip. ??

Yes, nothing genetic. And with regards to THC, no, I didn't say "now", I said "there was a point in my spiritual journey when". So there was a point in the journey when all psychedelics became pretty much indistinguishable, and even a small dose of edible THC was like a full LSD trip.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Sincerity

[Water by the River]

10 hours ago, Davino said:

All psychedelics bind to serotonin 5-HT2A receptors however Salvia does not even touch that receptor. Salvia binds to the  κ-opioid (kappa-opioid) receptor agonist. Maybe psychedelics dont work for you, which is honestly quite sad, you have no idea what you are missing because as you have said you have had no experience, hence your disaproval. Anyway, one thing are psychedelics and another are entheogens. So almost all entheogens are psychedelics but you can find exceptions like Salvia or Ketamine which are not. Salvia triggers another whole mechanism, so if classic psychedelcis do not work for you because of who knows why, you can still try Salvia, ketamine and many others that produce mystical experiences and hit the brain from different angles.

If you think about it, they only reasing you hold your position is because you haven't been able to have any legit psychedelic experience. Which is a rare exeption among all human beings which try psychedelics, so don't extrapolate your case to the whole of humanity. Instead, search and search till you find some molecule that allows you to become more conscious instantly. I mean how could anyone disaprove a technology that makes you more conscious instantly? It blows my mind really. 

https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/

caused for example by

https://dmtquest.org/meditation-hypnosis/

or by Realization/Enlightenment/Constant Awakened Awareness.

"Dr. Rick Strassman hypothesized that there might be a correlation between bursts of endogenous DMT during deep meditative states which coincides with the “mystical” experiences. Based on studying the general projected mechanics for DMT synthesis and the physical aspects of meditative practice, the hypothesis doesn’t seem far fetched whatsoever."

Maybe because of that?

And for all the psychedelic receptors: Andrew Gallimore, "Reality Switch Technologies: Psychedelics as Tools for the Discovery and Exploration of New Worlds"

Where do you think mystical/awakend/nondual states based meditation/realization come from, and what their bodily correlates are? When the nondual/awakened state becomes constant, why shouldn't there be the corresponding bodily correlate?

How come psychedelics loose their effect when the natural endohuasca-system takes over? Nonduality is such a powerful Awakened State that it would be very strange if that wouldn't have chemical correlates in the body, and (Gamma-)brainwave patterns in the brain. Let alone Enligthenment...

And concerning "AWAKENINGS": Human beings have explored the various (alien) realms/dimensions ever since also through meditation and other altered states, with psychdelics or without. Going from exploring Astral/Psychic, Subtle and Causal realms, to full blown Out of body explorations. If anyone wants sources, I have more than enough descriptions in my library of experiences of all this stuff, spanning over the centuries and all cultures of the planet.

Selling Water by the River

DMT: Produced by Pineal Gland confirmed. Video below, 5 minute mark

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Water by the River

[Artem]

16 minutes ago, RedLine said:

What is the best I can do right now in that direction of enlightenment?

Artem Boytsov

Spiritual teacher at True Freedom Teachings (2019–present)Updated 4y

Right now? Nothing. The best thing you can do right now in the direction of enlightenment is try to do literally nothing (beyond what your body needs to survive such as eating).

It will probably be very hard. You will feel restlessness, boredom, anxiety. You will start thinking that it’s all very silly, stupid, you are wasting your time or jeopardizing your chances in life to get ahead. How long will it take? What if I run out of money? Then you will start seeking excuses to do something to relieve yourself from the discomfort of simply being with yourself, with no goal, no agenda.

Observe.

 

 

Can someone reach the enlightenment while living a busy lifestyle inside the society?

Artem Boytsov

Spiritual teacher at True Freedom Teachings (2019–present)4y

No. Sorry, not possible. Enlightenment is focusing inwards, you can’t be both focused inwards and outwards at the same time. The busy lifestyle inside the society will invariably disintegrate, if only temporarily, and the period of isolation is pretty much universal. You have to be ready for it. Once it’s complete, you can return to society but the society will no longer be a part of you

That is not very helpful...

You are basically proposing going sucide (metaphorically) mode.  I always have the intuition that it is highly effective but I don´t want to ruin my life. It is a very hard decission. I still think I can follow a regular mediation routine towards elighment and keep goin with my life like Frank Yang or Daniel Ingram did.

You can try to combine life and spiritual practice, yes. Most of my students do. It's going to be slower, and you probably won't extinguish all suffering without a period of solitude, but it's still possible, and can still bring tremendous results as far as your quality of life is concerned. One thing which is true though is that you will not avoid any emotional difficulty on the path, none whatsoever. So whatever is the scariest thing (emotionally and psychologically speaking, not physically speaking) you can imagine that can happen to you, will happen to you. The spiritual journey rips you completely naked. So it's just a matter of managing the emotional/psychological turmoil of the process whilst still maintaining your job and relationships, which isn't impossible, just much more difficult. But it's possible, yes.

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, Artem said:

And with regards to THC, no, I didn't say "now", I said "there was a point in my spiritual journey when". So there was a point in the journey when all psychedelics became pretty much indistinguishable, and even a small dose of edible THC was like a full LSD trip.

Great, I can understand this. I will watch with attention your content

[Javfly33]

On 12/07/2023 at 9:35 PM, Leo Gura said:

There's just more consciousness beyond what Spira and Ralston can access through sober self-inquiry and meditation.

It should not be so surprising that the sober human mind is very limited no matter how hard it tries. You just cannot overcome your chemical limits through hard work. No amount of hard work by a chimpanzee will make it understand reality as well as a human. This is very obvious if you think about it for a bit. And then all you have to realize is that a human being cannot be the pinnacle of consciousness in this Universe. That is such a silly assumption.

You are imagining the limits of the 'human mind'.

God/Consciousness 'creates' the 'mind. If you keep saying to yourself over and over, then of course it becomes your reality.

I don't see why you can't seem to open your mind to the possibility that God can definitely imagine humans with high levels of consciousness, or at least, with certain 'keys' to activate this high states. Of course nobody can functionally in a high peak for too long, but I don't see why they would not be able to 'tap into' that state temporarily, as a drug does. 

But yeah, of course no Guru is perfect or just because is popular that automatically means he reached certain consciousness peaks. 

[RedLine]

12 minutes ago, Artem said:

You can try to combine life and spiritual practice, yes. Most of my students do. It's going to be slower, and you probably won't extinguish all suffering without a period of solitude, but it's still possible, and can still bring tremendous results as far as your quality of life is concerned. One thing which is true though is that you will not avoid any emotional difficulty on the path, none whatsoever. So whatever is the scariest thing (emotionally and psychologically speaking, not physically speaking) you can imagine that can happen to you, will happen to you. The spiritual journey rips you completely naked. So it's just a matter of managing the emotional/psychological turmoil of the process whilst still maintaining your job and relationships, which isn't impossible, just much more difficult. But it's possible, yes.

Yeah, I feel it is all about fully acepting that after death I will dissapear forever which is the idea that I am respressing so hard because it is too terryfing (sometimes it arise during deep sleep and I wake up screaming like crazy), and all that repressing is my ego construction. I am doing hours of that buddhist exhausting meditations everyday and I feel like I am just playing games and it doesnt´do anything. I wanted to do it the "soft way", but it is not working at all...

Edited July 13, 2023 by RedLine

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, Artem said:

Hello, @Leo Gura!

I can take 1,200ug of LSD and remain perfectly conversational, walk and talk in a normal manner, and my awakening is completely ordinary to me. I will see no hallucinations, have no or very little insight, experience no fear, and even bodily I will feel pretty much the same. There might be some slight discomfort in the beginning, but not much, I will feel quite ordinary the whole time and in 2-3 hours or so the only side effect I will have is slightly dilated pupils. I cannot detect light and medium doses of 5-MeO-DMT at all, all I feel is the taste of it, and a heavy dose is a relaxation experience for me which lasts 2-3 minutes or so. It's the same thing with N,N-DMT - I barely experience anything, even on a relatively high dose, and the "trip", if we could even call it that, only lasts 2-3 minutes. I haven't tried Salvia, but I have no reason to believe that it will "terrify the shit out of me" - it's been a long time since I experienced fear with any psychedelics.

I admire what you're doing, launching yourself into the spiritual journey with abandon, but you need guidance, my friend. I am very sorry to say but you have been spreading a lot of misinformation by generalizing your personal psychedelic experiences to everyone, and continually claiming higher states of consciousness than anyone else. From my perspective, you are not awake at all, and you have no wisdom to share (yet), even though your psychedelic experiences unquestionably brought you some insight.

I see a lot of potential in you, most notably your determination. It is true that in order to become enlightened, one has to have a megalomaniacal level of determination, the desire to know Truth above all else, the willingness to leave it all behind. This is true, and you have it.

But you are at the very beginning of your spiritual transformation, and are making all sorts of mistakes. You have a very strong ego, you desire to be seen as "the most awake human (alien?) of all time". You misunderstand and devalue a lot of authentic teachers, thus doing a disservice to humanity, given the size of your audience.

Please shoot me a message and we'll talk. We can speak privately on video or you could even come visit me. Remember that all authentic masters taught in person, and people who have nothing to hide from themselves don't hide from each other either.

Fuck!! I hadn't read that. man... you are the man. At the end, someone serious here. Almost sure I'm not wrong, let's see

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Yeah, I feel it is all about fully acepting that after death I will dissapear forever which is the idea that I am respressing so hard because it is too terryfing (sometimes it arise during deep sleep and I wake up screaming like crazy), and all that repressing is my ego construction. I am doing hours of that buddhist exhausting meditations everyday and I feel like I am just playing games and it doesnt´do anything. I wanted to do it the "soft way", but it is not working at all...

On an Absolute Level, "You"/Infinite Consciousness will never disappear.

And not even on a relative level, small "you"/separate self/soul still continues to ripen from life to life, the Soul refining its Karma.... Check the works of Jürgen Ziewe for example:

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html

https://www.youtube.com/@jurgenziewe9125/videos

This gentleman sounds a bit "New Age", but has credible Enlightenment experience & description in his book the Ten Minute Moment, and has had Out of Body Experiences for decades.

His descriptions of subtle/archetypal realms (those beyond the Astral/Bardo-Levels) are spot on, and also his Enlightenment/Infinite Consciousness descriptions (Causal and Nondual level). It is a fascinating look behind the curtain of the separate-self-(illusion)-arisings (soul) going from life to life, refining its Karma until confirming to Reality/Enlightened Mind.

What can (and will) disappear is the illusion-arising of the separate self, which is "protected" by fear.

But even after Enlightenment, the soul continues its journey on a relative/arising level:

"We can join communities of kindred spirit, cooperate on unimaginable creative projects and can visit any part of Infinity we wish for or are called to. We are the working army of absolute consciousness, the co-workers of God. If you’ve ever wondered where Angels come from, we are the potential Angels. This is how Angels are borne. Emanuel Swedenborg was adamant about it: Angels are no supernatural beings, they were once humans like us."

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Our_Ultimate_Journey_Home.html

Emanuel Swedenborg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg. AWAKENINGS anybody?

And after all the scary stuff has happened, YOU will still remain... Which is great news! And even small/relative you/soul continues to ripen, although as an appearance arising within YOU, Infinite Reality....

Bon voyage!

Selling Water by the River

[RedLine]

16 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

On an Absolute Level, "You"/Infinite Consciousness will never disappear.

And not even on a relative level, small "you"/separate self/soul still continues to ripen from life to life, the Soul refining its Karma.... Check the works of Jürgen Ziewe for example:

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html

https://www.youtube.com/@jurgenziewe9125/videos

This gentleman sounds a bit "New Age", but has credible Enlightenment experience & description in his book the Ten Minute Moment, and has had Out of Body Experiences for decades.

His descriptions of subtle/archetypal realms (those beyond the Astral/Bardo-Levels) are spot on, and also his Enlightenment/Infinite Consciousness descriptions (Causal and Nondual level). It is a fascinating look behind the curtain of the separate-self-(illusion)-arisings (soul) going from life to life, refining its Karma until confirming to Reality/Enlightened Mind.

What can (and will) disappear is the illusion-arising of the separate self, which is "protected" by fear.

But even after Enlightenment, the soul continues its journey on a relative/arising level:

"We can join communities of kindred spirit, cooperate on unimaginable creative projects and can visit any part of Infinity we wish for or are called to. We are the working army of absolute consciousness, the co-workers of God. If you’ve ever wondered where Angels come from, we are the potential Angels. This is how Angels are borne. Emanuel Swedenborg was adamant about it: Angels are no supernatural beings, they were once humans like us."

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Our_Ultimate_Journey_Home.html

Emanuel Swedenborg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg. AWAKENINGS anybody?

And after all the scary stuff has happened, YOU will still remain... Which is great news! And even small/relative you/soul continues to ripen, although as an appearance arising within YOU, Infinite Reality....

Bon voyage!

Selling Water by the River

It is not something that I rationally believe. It is something it is deep in my susconscious and involuntarily arise in deep sleep every 6 months or mayby 2 or 3 years. That´s also the source of my pessimism towards life that I carry since I have memory and the source of my maniac impulse to get achievements (including spirituallity) to ran away from death. I also feel that the idea of dissapear after death is the same that the idea of I don´t really exist right now, I am holding my fake self alive trough the creation of mental content all the time , it is hard to expalin. 

Here I explained the night death experience:

btw that night experience was the last I had. I did not have any again. I attribute it to my mind is less clear and entertained with regular life goals and deep existencial material is even  deeper repressed than ever 

Edited July 13, 2023 by RedLine