My biggest obstacle in Psychedelics and Spirituality is Fear of Insanity

[Sempiternity]

To add to the list of comedy gold Leo quotes if taken out of context "In one of my mushroom trips I realized how I was a dinosaur"

[Federico del pueblo]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In one of my early mushroom trips I realized how I was a dinosaur and it really fucked me up for a few days.

Interesting. Was this kind of like an authentic identification as a dinosaur similar to a reexperience of a past incarnation or more like some random space robot dinosaur kind of thing that just wanted to show you how weird your consciousness can get?

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, Davino said:

I've been having awakening since I was 12. I remember very sweetly watching: What is Truth? from Leo in covid lockdown. I

Wait… how old are you? 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In one of my early mushroom trips I realized how I was a dinosaur and it really fucked me up for a few days.

Must explain why you love that 65 movie. 

Adam Driver is pretty hot af, so perhaps you’re also questioning and exploring your sexuality 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Adam Driver is pretty hot af, so perhaps you’re also questioning and exploring your sexuality

Ewww... no.

Who doesn't like dinosaurs??

Edited July 11, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jowblob]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What I said here doesn't contradict in any way my warnings to use psychedelics carefully.

But not so carefully that you are afraid of facing a little insanity. If you are doing psychedelics and pursuing AWAKENING and you think you can avoid the facing of insanity you are kidding yourself. In that case you better just stop.

Unlike most gurus I am being very direct with you about what it will take to AWAKEN. So you can decide ahead of time if it's something you really want to pursue. If you are not excited at least a bit by the prospect of experiencing insanity then you don't have the proper attitude for spiritual work. Your priorities are wrong. You have to want to step out of your mental comfort zone.

@Leo Gura Today i had a sleeping dream, and in the dream i was aware that i was dreaming and that i was the only one conscious and that the others were me. So anyway for some reason i found myself with 2 other guys in some building with ar15 guns to shoot these imaginary characters. I entered a room with my other guy and instead of shooting 30 people sitting we shot at the floor and jumped out the window. Then we ran and we dropped the guns in water, then we started pretending and walking like we were unconscious like others. But god knew and he send his unconscious agents after us, the agents were cats that jumped on me and scratched and bit me. Then i jumped in water and wake up.

 

this dream was insanity and hell itself, and it was like i created my reality myself as god because i was fighting god myself. Idk if this path is for me anymore. It's like i dont want to wake up anymore  , but do i even have a choice?

[Leo Gura]

@Jowblob Relax and enjoy the show.

[Davino]

8 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I'll probably need a handful more trips to awaken because when I trip unimaginable amounts of energy come up and I'm twitching, shaking and trembling like a fish on land deprived from oxygen and that seems to not leave room for awakening yet.

Makes sense you gotta work through all of that, it's like a pyramid. I'm very lucky to have had such a good life and loving parents. You have to fill in the gaps to get to the top, I have been guilty of bypassing so take your time to do a good job, it's worth it.

5 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Wait… how old are you? 

I'm in my early 20s. I'm pretty young but I consider myself mature, despite the lack of experience characterestic of this age. I'm always trying my best

[Sugarcoat]

23 hours ago, Dazgwny said:

This I think is a tricky one. Because I went completely insane on a trip for what I later realised was about 20 minutes or so once the episode had passed. The thing though is that it wasn’t a product of having lost grip on my mind, it was a product of having gained too much of a grip on my mind. There was nothing getting past me, there was nothing able to trick me, I had realised how my entire life was being created, and how other people were, and what they were etc. Knowing of this level drove me to levels of insanity that I had never experienced before. Mind working at a million miles per hour compared to its ordinary state. Seeing through absolutely everything. And the thing is, I did love it, I absolutely loved it. That was until a fear struck me out of nowhere of ‘oh my god, how can I ever go to work again, how can I ever look at these people again’ and so on. I thought oh no, this is me completely screwed now! I’ve done it now, but this is what I always wanted to know, become aware of, now I’ve completely fucked up my whole life. I have gone absolutely nuts here even though it is the complete truth. How could truth send me bonkers, it didn’t seem right, yet it was absolutely correct, and perfect. All this happening in not your straightforward linear style of thinking as you know it, but in a gymnastic type way with not one gymnast, more like a million gymnasts at once. 
It was actually that fear, that was the thing that brought me around to that more ordinary state of thinking, where things seemed to line up more as they do in my everyday state. But once that did happen, I was unable to completely see through everything in the moment, rather I was left with memory of how it was the case. Which was far far easier to deal with. 
I see this as just one of the genius points of gods creation, that you are able to dumb yourself down and not be able to see through everything in that manner, so ordinary life can be lived as you know it. So all in all I loved my bout of insanity, but I simultaneously feared it. And the strange thing was is that it was that fear that stabilised me back into this what is the so called ‘normal’ state. But believe you me, this normal state, is god being so fucking insane it has itself masterly tricked itself that it is normal. For a human it is, from gods point of view you would see it as nuts. Either way, just a part of the genius. 
So I guess I would say that it is fear, and of course the fear of insanity that is a, if not the major block on awakening 

Wow wow. I am amazed that you shared this. In a way I have so much I could say here. 
 

First of all.
What you describe as this state of too much grip on mind - you are essentially describing my default state of being throughout my entire life leading up to my awakening. Essentially this “grip” on my mind getting stronger and stronger, mind getting faster and faster as you describe,  to reach an absolutely insane climax. For me then suddenly out of nowhere being completely released from it all thanks to this permanent awakening/shift. And keep in mind, I have never used psychedelics. 

Feeling like I have zero grounding in actuality or physical reality (which I imagined the “normal state” was) all I know is just my own perception/mind. 

this normal forward thinking style you describe- let me tell you, it was never really common  to me, but rather a part of my own imagination that I’ve imaged other people to experience. Again part of my own mind that I had such a grip on. 

 

when you say “knowing what other people were” could you elaborate what you mean by that? I used to experience how I could exactly imagine others experiences or the way they operate or something idk. Once again part of my own imagination . And how in a way I couldn’t interact with anyone or experience anything real as it was all part of my own perception or something 

 

interesting that you say that fear is what stabilized you back to “normal”. That is something I used to wonder about - how a lot of people seem afraid to “go into” their mind too much. I never experienced that, only as a child when this was new to me, but the thing is - when something is your default state , which it was all the way back to my childhood, you have no other choice but to get comfortable with it or you’ll suffer endlessly.

So I used it to my advantage instead and stopped fearing it all together. As you did, I started to LOVE it! Which is what made this grip stronger and stronger! Becuase I engaged in it, more and more, went into it, more and more, so everything became my own mind in a way. And I was completely stuck yet loved it the most and knew nothing else!

 

but something was still off, something was not stable about it. Something wasn’t right . There was something dissatisfying about it.
 

 

Somewhere deep down I intuited, there must be something else; something that isn’t whatever this is. Some other way of experiencing life. This can’t be all there is. But I couldn’t possibly know what this was, as everything was in a way part of this mind thing. 
 

 Then boom one day I was standing in my kitchen and this indescribable shift happened, “awakening” one might say. Absolutely indescribable. Had me ugly crying for days,

 

And it was the end- the end of this madness. I was released from it permanently. It brings me to tears to think back to that exact moment in the kitchen. Permanent indescribable existential relief like nothing else. 

you response was in a way confirming what I’ve intuited/imagined “the other side” aka normal side to be. Lol thanks 

 

but I would say to you - question this assumption about it being “the truth”. That makes it sound like something else is false or something idk, as if it’s not just another way of experiencing reality of something. I don’t know tho!
 

For me, I don’t understand it fully looking back at it now that it’s over. I don’t understand what the permanent shift was too, it’s all still new to me as it happened two months ago. But understanding can grow over time perhaps. 
 

Interesting you say fear of this “insanity “ blocks awakening.
 

Perhaps. It was like - if you go into this mind thing and embraced it so fully, to the point everything becomes it in a way, so you know no way out of it - as any attempt to get out is still happening within it . 

 

 So the only way out  is for something else  to  release you from it - this “awakening”. Because you couldn’t do it yourself as you have fully given yourself up to this mind thing - which is what I would say it was for me ??‍♀️ But honestly no need to fear it. You can still be “functional “ while in it, in my experience. 

 

bless you!!

Edited July 11, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

20 hours ago, Davino said:

Insanity is the total surrendering of absolutely everything. All that you had learnt and done in your life to be able to understand and make sense of what is going on, to survive, to be a human, to prefer life and health over death pain and suffering, distinctions between real and unreal, all of this just flying out of the window. Forgetting I was ever a human, and then what..? This proces feels like becoming insane.

The paradox of what you described, is that you can’t fear it. It’s impossible. 
 

You can’t fear total surrender because then that is not total surrender.
 

You see the paradox? How your mind is tricking you? Anything you fear is something particular your mind is imagining- something specific. You can’t fear “the end of it all “ as you don’t know what that is, you can’t imagine it. 
 

“this process feels like going insane” I relate to you but once again that’s still traces of the same mind and knowing that’s left … so never the “end of it all” as that would include the end of that fearful mind …

[OBEler]

On 10.7.2023 at 11:54 AM, Dazgwny said:

There was nothing getting past me, there was nothing able to trick me, I had realised how my entire life was being created, and how other people were, and what they were etc. Knowing of this level drove me to levels of insanity that I had never experienced before. Mind working at a million miles per hour compared to its ordinary state. Seeing through absolutely everything. And the thing is, I did love it, I absolutely loved it. That was until a fear struck me out of nowhere of ‘oh my god, how can I ever go to work again, how can I ever look at these people again’ and so on. I thought oh no, this is me completely screwed now! I’ve done it now, but this is what I always wanted to know, become aware of, now I’ve completely fucked up my whole life. I have gone absolutely nuts here even though it is the complete truth. How could truth send me bonkers, it didn’t seem right, yet it was absolutely correct, and perfect. All this happening in not your straightforward linear style of thinking as you know it, but in a gymnastic type way with not one gymnast, more like a million gymnasts at once. 
It was actually that fear, that was the thing that brought me around to that more ordinary state of thinking, where things seemed to line up more as they do in my everyday state. But once that did happen, I was unable to completely see through everything in the moment, rather I was left with memory of how it was the case. 

Woah very interesting! Can you elaborate, what Do you mean with see through everything and what are other people /beings for you, do they have an experience going on? 

[Davino]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

You can’t fear total surrender because then that is not total surrender.

Yes, that's the absurdity of it. You have to take into account that it's not a switch on and off button, it's a progress and in the progress to total surrender of what is real and unreal, and all other distinctions, you can very much resist and have fear to that process. The point I'm working at is making the jump to the unkown.

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

You see the paradox? How your mind is tricking you? Anything you fear is something particular your mind is imagining- something specific. You can’t fear “the end of it all “ as you don’t know what that is, you can’t imagine it. 

Yes now I see. I have seen the trick. Letting go of insanity and sanity also then, of controlling and desiring while I'm awakening. I realized I have a problem with doing leaps of faith into the unkown when shit gets very real. Let's see if I can cultivate a more corageous and explorer mindset.

[Sugarcoat]

34 minutes ago, Davino said:

You have to take into account that it's not a switch on and off button, it's a progress and in the progress to total surrender of what is real and unreal, and all other distinctions, you can very much resist and have fear to that process.

Absolutely! I totally relate to this gradual unraveling

 

but you calling it “progress to total surrender” is lowkey an idea you have about it rather than what it is

 

what if the next step in this “process of total surrender” is the dying of the idea that you are on this process ? Not that you aren’t on any process at all but that this idea you have of it isn’t what it is…. It can be veeeeeery unpredictable how this unfolds this process to a shocking degree so just saying 

 

 

 

What’s more scary to you? facing “insanity” or missing out on what you imagine is the happiness and awakening that will come if you don’t continue on this “path” ? Maybe the main resistance you’re trying to dissolve isn’t mostly about what you imagine it to be about . It can be very unpredictable as I said 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[CARDOZZO]

@Davino I have the same fear.

I work as a knowledge worker using my brain all day.

Maybe one day I'll do psychedelics.

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Then boom one day I was standing in my kitchen and this indescribable shift happened, “awakening” one might say. Absolutely indescribable. Had me ugly crying for days,

Woah… I was also in my kitchen, except I was sitting when the shift happened!

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

For me, I don’t understand it fully looking back at it now that it’s over. I don’t understand what the permanent shift was too, it’s all still new to me as it happened two months ago. But understanding can grow over time perhaps. 
 

Are we the same?  

(Yes, I can’t make this up, this was two three months ago and also in my kitchen )

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Yimpa
Time Flies

[Sugarcoat]

7 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Woah… I was also in my kitchen, except I was sitting when the shift happened!

Are we the same?  

(Yes, I can’t make this up, this was two three months ago and also in my kitchen )

 

 

I saw your comment where you said you related to him so I guessed you’d respond to me to and I’m glad you did ?

 

Something about the kitchen ? for me there was an argument in my mind about wether to eat something unhealthy or not and then boom 

That’s a lovely post ! Caught the moment !

the thing is I’m unsure about the date for me  I think it was towards the end of April . But that’s cool as heck! We are similar for sure , it’s that resonance which is rare for me to experience outside this forum ?

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

the thing is I’m unsure about the date for me  I think it was towards the end of April . But that’s cool as heck! We are similar for sure , it’s that resonance which is rare for me to experience outside this forum ?

The best dates are those shared with and as CONSCIOUSNESS.

Beyond human dating! Beyond human love!

Yippee! I’m insane  

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The best dates are those shared with and as CONSCIOUSNESS.

Beyond human dating! Beyond human love!

Yippee! I’m insane  

Insanity doesn't recognize insanity. 

[Princess Arabia]

35 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Woah… I was also in my kitchen, except I was sitting when the shift happened!

Are we the same?  

(Yes, I can’t make this up, this was two three months ago and also in my kitchen )

 

 

Wow, I was also in my kitchen, doing the dishes and looking out the window. All of a sudden, I was seeing clearer and everything seemed clear. I started crying....no....bawling, and I couldn't stop, even if I wanted to. This lasted about 5mins. It's like something in me clicked. It felt weird. Then it happened again about 3days later while watching one of Leo's videos, I think it was the What is Reality one, not sure but it was metaphysical. Haven't happened since like that even though I still have moments when I start to think about God and start to weep, but very softly and I can feel him, it, whatever, it's love flowing inside of me, soothing me and then I whisper to it and say, 'I love you'. Until the point I wake up. Lol. It's miraculous. That happened to me about 4yrs ago.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Sugarcoat]

11 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Insanity doesn't recognize insanity. 

I’ve been questioning that lately actually. I feel like it might be the conventional way of looking at it…

becuase I’ve experienced things that perhaps would be considered insane but I have been fully aware of it and allowed it even im not sure tho,  still exploring this

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’ve been questioning that lately actually. I feel like it might be the conventional way of looking at it…

becuase I’ve experienced things that perhaps would be considered insane but I have been fully aware of it and allowed it even im not sure tho,  still exploring this

It might drive you to insane insanity??