My gf got taken advantage of by her bff's brother

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Raze I think the groping could come under sexual assault. Would depend on the jurisdictional law though.

But the need for proof would likely render that avenue unusable.

That was years ago, it is far too long ago to prosecute and won’t have any evidence. Also no way cops will take it seriously when she says she gave him oral right after.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Raze

[Ampresus]

4 hours ago, integral said:

She needs to learn to speak her mind. Her level of immaturity is equal to that man, can you see it? Stuck in people pleasing, avoid conflict mode.

Its just that masculine immaturity is easy for you to hate, but feminine immaturity is easy for you to over look.

@integral I get what you're saying and I told her this as well. The only complaint I have ever made about here is that I wished she'd just grow a backbone. I don't know how I can possibly make this change come to fruition with her though. Usually, Dutch girls are already pretty wild and agressive even if you did nothing wrong. Picking fights with dudes trying to harrass you or pepperspray them or ganging up on him with your friends is normal here. She comes from a different world and I don't know how to make her stand up for herself more. I know I can influence her, but changing a whole human being's beliefs and values is really difficult. This is why I requested advice on this forum. I know there are people here who can see this clearer than me right now.

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

My thing is this tho, wasn't she like 12-13 when this happened? Maybe I'm missing something here.

Yes. I was mainly referring to this overall pushover/low self esteem tendency that he describes about her, which is something that might last long after the incident if one doesn’t change fundamentally. I was also around that age when I sought attention from guys btw , so it’s still valid point for me

[integral]

Ive deeply thought through this and am not sitting here pointing blame to rape victims. She couldnt tell the character of the man he was when sending nudes to him because she had 0 idea what is going on in this world. Thats her level of immaturity that she has to learn to grow out of. 

I see all immaturity equally. Feminine immaturity will rip your life and heart out, it just gets a pass from naïve masculine men.

Im not blaming rape victims, im pointing to immaturity on all sides.

[Ampresus]

4 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Ampresus Firstly, I suppose you could email the university he ends up going to stating you know/ have heard of multiple young girls who this person has sexually assaulted over the course of various years. And that you are greatly concerned he will perpetrate further acts of sexual assault at the university, and that you are writing this email to alert the university to be very responsive to any harassment/ criminal complaints made against the individual.

I'd just email someone at the university, i.e. get an email from its website. Then ask for the email of whoever deals with sexual harassment complaints at the university. 

I'm from the UK, and I'm confident the university would keep a log of what you said. And, if anything does happen it could mean that they respond more urgently to any reports against him on campus too.

I think university departments are quite fearful of being seen to have negative press surrounding things like sexual assault. So i think an email to them could make a difference. Particularly if you note that you urge them to be responsive if a report is made against that individual. Because if he did commit sexual assaults and the press found out you sent that email, then the uni could be heavily criticized by the press.

Also, I think you would still have the same effect with the email too if you sent this email anonymously, too. As well, as if you make the description of 

Secondly, On a personal note, I really feel for your and your girlfriends situation. I'm very sorry to hear that there is such injustice there.

Thirdly, Some IFS therapy could be useful on an emotional level, particularly for your girlfriend i feel. If you need funding you could use 'youarerad.org' too. Said therapy can be done online, and can process/ integrate traumas at the deepest level.

Fourthly, alternatively or perhaps, in addition, some centering prayer practice (its a letting go meditation that originates from a christian teacher), and some mindfulness meditation could help too. Link 1: https://www.contemplative.org/contemplative-practice/centering-prayer/. Link 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W30oR1UDBI&t=12s&pp=ygUZYmFzaWMgbm90aW5nIGtlbm5ldGggZm9saw%3D%3D

I reckon the centering prayer practice could help process the trauma for both of you. I think mindfulness meditation could help you both manage difficult emotions that are coming up now, and would come up in the process of processing too. 

Lastly, I'd recommend your gf stop hanging out with her current bff. My thinking is the brother likely suffers from some deep toxicity. And, that originates because of a toxic family structure. Hence, the bff will also have some sort of deep toxicity too i reckon. I say this particularly if your gf finds strong signs that the bff values loyalty > integrity, which i reason from her favoring her brother absolutely. Hence, i think it would be unhealthy to your gf to keep friends with said bff. Perhaps, making up some excuse for ending the friendship that doesn't trigger the bff into a toxic reaction could be useful. That said, i understand that ending said relationship could be too emotionally difficult thing to do for your gf. Or, if you would feel too uncomfortable making that recommendation.

Hope this can be of value mate.

@Ulax THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. This will be of much value thank you. This was the answer I was looking for. Having been in this community for a while and also having had my fair share of spiritual experiences, I know that whatever revenge I plan will not be enough. I knew there were ways to resolve this with meditation or therapy, I just didn't know how. Thanks a lot man.

[Ampresus]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Good job feeding your little grandiose ego about yourself being some hero guy who’s going to save your poor little girlfriend.
 

That is honestly all you’re doing here with this, feeding your own ego but believing it’s coming from some deep compassion. 
 

You’re not really helping her at all with this. She has deep problems within herself that she needs to get her shit together and solve herself. By playing into this role of this savior guy you are simply confirming her weaknesses once again rather than helping her. 
 

and this is coming from a woman who herself has a history of people pleasing and seeking validation from guys in my teens. No body but herself can bring her out from this, sure you can support her in the process but the way you want to do it is just feeding into the same pattern sorry to break it to you.

 

@integral was onto something here with those replies.  It’s not about blame, it’s about seeing the role she has in this and how it’s up to her to change it fundamentally 

 

@Sugarcoat The reason I came to this forum is because I know it's my ego that wants this. I don't see myself as a hero or a savior. Instead of assuming I am a macho man trying to square up for my princess, listen to what I am saying. I have been here long enough to know that any form of revenge will not make up for what she experienced. That's why I came here, to ask for alternative solutions. If I cared that much about my image, I would've just gone through with it in the first place. I don't want to lie, hence why I say I have these feelings I feel like expressing violently, but that doesn't mean I think it's the right thing to do. I am conflicted about what the best solution is, not about showing her how much of a man I am.

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

My thing is this tho, wasn't she like 12-13 when this happened? Maybe I'm missing something here.

Yes that’s what I understood. I was confused tho about what age they are now , so how long ago it was and I was mainly referring to this overall pushover/low self esteem tendency that he describes about her, which is something that might last long after the incident if one doesn’t change fundamentally. I was also around that age when I sought attention from guys btw , so it’s still valid point for me

[Ulax]

29 minutes ago, Ampresus said:

@Ulax THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. This will be of much value thank you. This was the answer I was looking for. Having been in this community for a while and also having had my fair share of spiritual experiences, I know that whatever revenge I plan will not be enough. I knew there were ways to resolve this with meditation or therapy, I just didn't know how. Thanks a lot man.

@Ampresus You're welcome mate.

Also, If those meditation techniques don't work out for you, feel free to message or tag me. If so, I'll send you some other meditation options as well.

 

[Bando]

4 hours ago, Ulax said:

Firstly, I suppose you could email the university he ends up going to stating you know/ have heard of multiple young girls who this person has sexually assaulted over the course of various years. And that you are greatly concerned he will perpetrate further acts of sexual assault at the university, and that you are writing this email to alert the university to be very responsive to any harassment/ criminal complaints made against the individual.

I'd just email someone at the university, i.e. get an email from its website. Then ask for the email of whoever deals with sexual harassment complaints at the university. 

I'm from the UK, and I'm confident the university would keep a log of what you said. And, if anything does happen it could mean that they respond more urgently to any reports against him on campus too.

I think university departments are quite fearful of being seen to have negative press surrounding things like sexual assault. So i think an email to them could make a difference. Particularly if you note that you urge them to be responsive if a report is made against that individual. Because if he did commit sexual assaults and the press found out you sent that email, then the uni could be heavily criticized by the press.

Also, I think you would still have the same effect with the email too if you sent this email anonymously, too. As well, as if you make the description of 

Secondly, On a personal note, I really feel for your and your girlfriends situation. I'm very sorry to hear that there is such injustice there.

Thirdly, Some IFS therapy could be useful on an emotional level, particularly for your girlfriend i feel. If you need funding you could use 'youarerad.org' too. Said therapy can be done online, and can process/ integrate traumas at the deepest level.

Fourthly, alternatively or perhaps, in addition, some centering prayer practice (its a letting go meditation that originates from a christian teacher), and some mindfulness meditation could help too. Link 1: https://www.contemplative.org/contemplative-practice/centering-prayer/. Link 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W30oR1UDBI&t=12s&pp=ygUZYmFzaWMgbm90aW5nIGtlbm5ldGggZm9saw%3D%3D

I reckon the centering prayer practice could help process the trauma for both of you. I think mindfulness meditation could help you both manage difficult emotions that are coming up now, and would come up in the process of processing too. 

Lastly, I'd recommend your gf stop hanging out with her current bff. My thinking is the brother likely suffers from some deep toxicity. And, that originates because of a toxic family structure. Hence, the bff will also have some sort of deep toxicity too i reckon. I say this particularly if your gf finds strong signs that the bff values loyalty > integrity, which i reason from her favoring her brother absolutely. Hence, i think it would be unhealthy to your gf to keep friends with said bff. Perhaps, making up some excuse for ending the friendship that doesn't trigger the bff into a toxic reaction could be useful. That said, i understand that ending said relationship could be too emotionally difficult thing to do for your gf. Or, if you would feel too uncomfortable making that recommendation.

Hope this can be of value mate.

This is very high quality advice, I knew of a guy when I was in college who was a massive pos and had extremely unethical practices about courting women, many women ended up coming forward after one reported him for sexual assault, the guy would brag about how banged drunk girls and said he still had videos from his high school days. There was an investigation conducted due to the number of complaints and 1 year later we never heard from him. 

People like the OP described don't really change unless they face steep consequences.
 

[Princess Arabia]

39 minutes ago, integral said:

Ive deeply thought through this and am not sitting here pointing blame to rape victims. She couldnt tell the character of the man he was when sending nudes to him because she had 0 idea what is going on in this world. Thats her level of immaturity that she has to learn to grow out of. 

I see all immaturity equally. Feminine immaturity will rip your life and heart out, it just gets a pass from naïve masculine men.

Im not blaming rape victims, im pointing to immaturity on all sides.

Being underage is not immaturity. Immaturity is having the capacity to act maturely but choosing not to maybe because of ignorance or whatever reason. We're talking about something that happened to someone when they were 12/13 years old, show some understanding because I'm sure you did things when you were in that age range because you didn't know any better.

[integral]

13 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Being underage is not immaturity. Immaturity is having the capacity to act maturely but choosing not to maybe because of ignorance or whatever reason. We're talking about something that happened to someone when they were 12/13 years old, show some understanding because I'm sure you did things when you were in that age range because you didn't know any better.

That guy also doesn't no any better and has to grow up. Are you able to show understanding towards him or to complete the picture and show understanding towards the whole? Are you blaming one side over the other? There's a miscommunication, im not blaming anyone. an event like this is the inevitable expression of everyone involved.

Besides reprimanding him for bad behavior the only thing she can do is work on herself.

So what conversation are we having here? How to punish "bad people"? Or how to grow up?

---

Women that find themselves in these situations have a habit of finding themselves in these situations again in the future. There is more to it then a one off crime committed towards her. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by integral

[Princess Arabia]

49 minutes ago, Ampresus said:

@Ulax THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. This will be of much value thank you. This was the answer I was looking for. Having been in this community for a while and also having had my fair share of spiritual experiences, I know that whatever revenge I plan will not be enough. I knew there were ways to resolve this with meditation or therapy, I just didn't know how. Thanks a lot man.

This is an example why forums can be helpful and advices like this helps to find solutions. I wish more of us would help to figure out solutions instead of putting our energy on blame and finding faults. We are all learning how to become civil humans criticizing, condemning and pointing fingers doesn't help. I'm also learning, and it's always refreshing to see people react to situations that stem from a negative and trying to help in a positive way. Thank you for putting your time and energy into showing this individual a positive way out and maybe help someone else who might see this who is going through a similar situation. 

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, integral said:

That guy also doesn't no any better and has to grow up. Are you able to show understanding towards him or to complete the picture and show understanding towards the whole? Are you blaming one side over the other? There's a miscommunication, im not blaming anyone. an event like this is the inevitable expression of everyone involved.

Besides reprimanding him for bad behavior the only thing she can do is work on herself.

So what conversation are we having here? How to punish "bad people"? Or how to grow up?

---

Women that find themselves in these situations have a habit of finding themselves in these situations again in the future. There is more to it then a one off crime committed towards her. 

I repeat, maybe I'm missing something here. WAS SHE 12/13 when this occurred? Please let me know if that's your understanding because that's mine and maybe I will see the situation differently. And I'm not putting blame on anyone. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[integral]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

I repeat, maybe I'm missing something here. WAS SHE 12/13 when this occurred? Please let me know if that's your understanding because that's mine and maybe I will see the situation differently. And I'm not putting blame on anyone. 

How old is she now? 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, integral said:

How old is she now? 

I'm speaking about when the incident took place 

[integral]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

I'm speaking about when the incident took place 

Im speaking about how immature she is right now. 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, integral said:

Im speaking about how immature she is right now. 

This is going nowhere and is showing signs of immaturity itself, so I will leave this conversation right here.

[integral]

Is this incident happened 10 years ago, she has to heal from her trauma. 

[integral]

8 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is going nowhere and is showing signs of immaturity itself, so I will leave this conversation right here.

My ex-gf was raped during our relationship, it traumatized me worse then it traumatized her.

Your assuming your perspective is the moral high road and the "truth" in the matter with out fully understanding what I'm saying.

It doesn't matter what age she was when this happened, he explained that who she today is still a people pleaser with no voice, she cant asses the quality of a person people are (as some people depending on there upbringing cant ever seem to get a grasp of especially if her parents had no integrity).

Your assuming she has grown up in the past 5-10 years, when growing up with trauma and a bad upbringing never goes smoothly.

[Raze]

9 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Ampresus Firstly, I suppose you could email the university he ends up going to stating you know/ have heard of multiple young girls who this person has sexually assaulted over the course of various years. And that you are greatly concerned he will perpetrate further acts of sexual assault at the university, and that you are writing this email to alert the university to be very responsive to any harassment/ criminal complaints made against the individual.

I'd just email someone at the university, i.e. get an email from its website. Then ask for the email of whoever deals with sexual harassment complaints at the university. 

I'm from the UK, and I'm confident the university would keep a log of what you said. And, if anything does happen it could mean that they respond more urgently to any reports against him on campus too.

I think university departments are quite fearful of being seen to have negative press surrounding things like sexual assault. So i think an email to them could make a difference. Particularly if you note that you urge them to be responsive if a report is made against that individual. Because if he did commit sexual assaults and the press found out you sent that email, then the uni could be heavily criticized by the press.

Also, I think you would still have the same effect with the email too if you sent this email anonymously, too. As well, as if you make the description of 

 

This is ridiculous dude. He has no example of someone telling him the guy committed assault nor proof anything occured. The only thing he had was him grabbing his gfs ass when he was 13, that was years ago and she gave him oral right after, no one would legally consider that she took it as a non consensual act when she went on to do a consensual sex act directly after. He just said his gf said she’s heard him do stuff to “other girls”. What stuff? Asking for nudes? That isn’t illegal. Even the claim he slept with someone 5 years younger wouldn’t mean anything because it is covered in Romeo and Juliet laws.

Maybe if girls themselves emailed the university with multiple ones corroborating and giving specific accusations that are actual clear crimes, but at this point they won’t take seriously a anonymous guy saying he’s heard some women he isn’t naming who he claims make vague claims about this guy.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Raze