What is the solution to the culture wars?

[thenondualtankie]

This seems to be basically the main issue in Western countries these days. When I say "culture wars", I'm just talking about the polarization we've been seeing over identity issues, e.g. LGBTQ issues.

I feel like it's such a massive waste of energy though. Why is the right wing so obsessed with the culture wars? All the bigger problems of society go right over their heads when the only thing they think about is their problems with the trans movement.

At the same time I do believe the left needs to make some concessions to the right somehow. For example with the recent SCOTUS decision on affirmative action. I think anyone left-leaning and with a brain should immediately join the majority of the American population and support this decision. I also want to say that maybe the LGBTQ movement needs to quieten down a little bit. But I deeply empathize with why they are so loud: they were suppressed for decades and centuries. Now they're barely able to come out. So of course they will be "aggressive" about it.

No idea. What will the ultimate solution to this be? I think ultimately, the older generation will die away, and the current progressives will largely become the new norm.

[Ajax]

Oh... I don't know. I am really unplugged from social media and really don't  encounter it in my real life. Soo... Be more like me I guess ?

Edited July 6, 2023 by Ajax

[thenondualtankie]

3 hours ago, Ajax said:

Oh... I don't know. I am really unplugged from social media and really don't  encounter it in my real life. Soo... Be more like me I guess ?

Lmao maybe that's true. It's just so easy to argue online, so everyone does it. Just look at this forum ???

[Leo Gura]

The solution to war is war.

[Bobby_2021]

More wars. Escalate. Accelerationism FTW. 

[Consept]

4 hours ago, Ajax said:

Oh... I don't know. I am really unplugged from social media and really don't  encounter it in my real life. Soo... Be more like me I guess ?

I kinda agree with you, if you didn't consume any culture war content for a year and used the extra time for real life pursuits, I can't see how your life wouldn't be better. As far as I can see the culture literally only affects those that engage with it. In your day to day life it would be very rare for you to encounter anything like what happens online. 

The dynamic will always exist because you'll always have a new generation that wants to do things differently and an older generation that wants to keep things the same, that is how we are able to evolve, it's probably not fun for the older generation but it is what it is. Probably if we can teach people to be more adaptable and not put their identities around these things then transitions could be smoother. 

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The solution to war is war.

5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

More wars. Escalate. Accelerationism FTW. 

 

 

[Hardkill]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The solution to war is war.

I do believe in the need in fighting the good fight and the need for a benevolent monopoly of force, but what about some diplomacy?

[Hatfort]

I'm not sure.

More weapons or more kisses.

[puporing]

Mass awakening but that ain't happening any time soon..

[Yimpa]

46 minutes ago, puporing said:

Mass awakening but that ain't happening any time soon..

Mass awakening bout to happen when Leo releases his new course, but there are no promises to that either 

 

[Leo Gura]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:32 PM, Hardkill said:

but what about some diplomacy?

Haven't we tried that?

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Haven't we tried that?

Well, it has been tried, but didn't you say that going to war only makes conflict or gridlock worse and further divides people?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Hardkill said:

but didn't you say that going to war only makes conflict or gridlock worse and further divides people?

That's only a half-truth.

The other half of the truth is that war solves all problems.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[thenondualtankie]

Lol, I read some news that Democrats are moving to blue states and Republicans are moving to red states.

Civil war 2.0 might be coming...

[Israfil]

57 minutes ago, thenondualtankie said:

Lol, I read some news that Democrats are moving to blue states and Republicans are moving to red states.

Civil war 2.0 might be coming...

Americans are too fat to maintain a civil war for a long time. After a while, they will give up ideals for having Netflix and KFC back.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura @thenondualtankie

On 2023-07-06 at 0:05 AM, thenondualtankie said:

This seems to be basically the main issue in Western countries these days. When I say "culture wars", I'm just talking about the polarization we've been seeing over identity issues, e.g. LGBTQ issues.

I feel like it's such a massive waste of energy though. Why is the right wing so obsessed with the culture wars? All the bigger problems of society go right over their heads when the only thing they think about is their problems with the trans movement.

At the same time I do believe the left needs to make some concessions to the right somehow. For example with the recent SCOTUS decision on affirmative action. I think anyone left-leaning and with a brain should immediately join the majority of the American population and support this decision. I also want to say that maybe the LGBTQ movement needs to quieten down a little bit. But I deeply empathize with why they are so loud: they were suppressed for decades and centuries. Now they're barely able to come out. So of course they will be "aggressive" about it.

No idea. What will the ultimate solution to this be? I think ultimately, the older generation will die away, and the current progressives will largely become the new norm.

On 2023-07-06 at 10:05 AM, Leo Gura said:

The solution to war is war.

   Reminds me of another context to this problem:

   What's the solution to starting a camp fire faster? Me: MORE FRICTION!!?

   Keep in mind every problem is half solved, as it's on a spectrum.

 

[Hardkill]

4 hours ago, thenondualtankie said:

Lol, I read some news that Democrats are moving to blue states and Republicans are moving to red states.

Civil war 2.0 might be coming...

Not entirely true. In fact....

Arizona which used to be a red for decades has become purple and increasingly turning blue. Former confederates including which used to be deep red states including Georgia, Texas, and North Carolina are either on their way towards being purple states or have now become purple and are now on there way towards becoming blue states. Even with Florida, which has been heavily influenced by Trump and DeSantis for a long while, I don't think that state will continue to be solid red forever. Several years from now, extreme right-wingers such as those two will eventually lose their great influence over Floridians given how radical Republican leaders like them have become. Furthermore, while it still is surprising in some ways that Florida has become a solid red state, look at its demographics. Florida has one of the most racially/ethnically diverse states in the country. It is one of the wealthiest states in the country. It is one of the largest and one of the most densely populated states in the country. It's state has an above average educated/forward-thinking population per capita compared to most other states. It also doesn't have nearly as large of a percentage of socially conservative christians as almost every other southern and midwestern state in the entire Bible belt region of the country does (except to a very small portion of Illinois). Therefore, Florida already has had most of the characteristics of what makes a blue state.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Hardkill

[eos_nyxia]

The addiction to polarization as a form of spectacle (and often on some level, entertainment) often reveals that there is not much underneath it at all. This is a worldwide thing (especially when it comes to the news and politics), but it seems to also very much be a North American thing too? It is a placeholder for one's time and energy, even while people believe that they are truly somehow dealing with "the real issues" in some productive way. That's at least a large part of it. If there are new issues to be polarized about, and one issue dies down as a point of central focus, but then another focus comes up, and then another, then it is an indications that polarization is functioning as an addiction to filling the void of one's focus.

Not all polarization is gratuitous though.

The question is if it's being used judiciously, is it actually effective, and is it needlessly self-indulgent? (In terms of causing yourself and others chronic suffering and distraction with no actual end in sight for anyone.)

Quote

But I deeply empathize with why they are so loud: they were suppressed for decades and centuries. Now they're barely able to come out. So of course they will be "aggressive" about it.

Sometimes people need to scream in public, for far longer than other people think is reasonable or necessary, in order to heal and reintegrate themselves (or specific aspects of themselves) into society. It's often a quicker way to deal with said issues rather than keeping it all to themselves in perfectly polite, civilized and acceptable ways, much to the inconvenience of people who would rather not listen to your screaming, or only listen as ammo for forming their own judgments about your self-worth, or specifically their intrinsic value in relation to your intrinsic value (with you always being on the losing end, rather predictably).

They also often have specific goals in mind for social change. Is this necessarily the most effective way to facilitate social change? Very rarely is it, but sometimes a hammer and bludgeoning does get the job done.

However, just as a counterexample to polarization:  I often feel like here in Canada (and possibly in the States as well), Indigenous people are far too polite about their traumas (on average). Even their protests strike me as too polite and reserved. Maybe they should be using their words like sharper, more calculated weapons, as in, it would force people to listen better... but it is not their way. It is also not very appropriate to speak over people and to dictate to them how they should deal with their traumas in order to be acceptable to YOU, especially on their behalf, lol. That's just being part of the problem. 

Also realistically, it often takes at least a couple of generations for intergenerational trauma to start to substantially dissolve collectively (or to at least get enough psychological distance from the original trauma) to cause psychological unraveling and resolution, especially if the issue was widespread and systematic on a cultural level. Often, there is a deeply fatalistic acceptance and profound grit that comes from being too close to the source of the trauma, experientially and at the level of identity that comes from this direct experience, assuming that they get to this point. (For example, being a genocide survivor, or a Residential School survivor in the case of Indigenous people here, or 2nd gen.) I have noticed that this is often where the "integration" process ends for people, But give credit where it is due, this is a massive achievement on a personal level.

At least, this is how it has been in the past 100-150 years or so. I'd like to think this process can finally accelerate now, and we can support each other better in this process.

On 2023-07-05 at 9:59 PM, Ajax said:

Oh... I don't know. I am really unplugged from social media and really don't  encounter it in my real life.

Me too.

Edited July 14, 2023 by eos_nyxia