Relativity and Delusion

[retrocausal]

Thinking about delusion and relativity, as well as perspectives, a question popped into my  mind...

 

How is delusion possible if all perspectives are equal?

If:

1. delusion is the situation where one's model of things does not line up with the actuality of things, and
2. the actuality of things is perspectival and ultimately relative

then delusion must be impossible.

 

Given this how can we work towards truth at all? In this scenario even falsehood is true because it is  and that's the only requirement for a perspective to be valid. Hmm.

Edited July 4, 2023 by retrocausal

[Ajax]

8 minutes ago, retrocausal said:

Thinking about delusion and relativity, as well as perspectives, a question popped into my  mind...

 

How is delusion possible if all perspectives are equal?

If:

1. delusion is the situation where one's model of things does not line up with the actuality of things, and
2. the actuality of things is perspectival and ultimately relative

then delusion must be impossible.

 

Given this how can we work towards truth at all? In this scenario even falsehood is true because it is  and that's the only requirement for a perspective to be valid. Hmm.

Delusion is false belief.

All perspectives not equal. I don't even understand that statement.

1. False reality.

2. There is Truth.

3. The game is to separate the lies from The Truth.

4. #1 rule. Think for yourself.

[retrocausal]

4 minutes ago, Ajax said:

All perspectives not equal. I don't even understand that statement.

 

What is falsehood if everything is absolute in its relativity? Falsehood is a function of language and without it just exists perspectives in pure "isness". 

I suppose that's true - not all perspectives are equal or equivalent. But they can only have an objective value attribution if they're measured against some ABSOLUTE standard. Thereby all perspectives are equally correct, no?

Delusion being false belief is a nice definition, I like that. Perhaps all belief is delusion.

Edited July 4, 2023 by retrocausal

[Ajax]

5 minutes ago, retrocausal said:

What is falsehood if everything is absolute in its relativity?

The only absolute is God... Truth... Source... Whatever you want to call it.

Relatively can't be absolute.

5 minutes ago, retrocausal said:

I suppose that's true - not all perspectives are equal or equivalent. But they can only have an objective value attribution if they're measured against some ABSOLUTE standard. Thereby all perspectives are equally correct, no?

No, that would true if truth wasn't buried in lies. So when you get a piece of data it is only partially True, the rest of it is lies. Your job is to find the difference.

The gameboard ( or dream) of Source is the physical universe It pretends it can be hurt or destroyed. It has rules. It is also dualistic. However, when you do spiritual work, you realize dualism is a lie.

So perspectives are not equal in quality or quality because they are contain varying amounts of falseness.

People used to believe that there were gods on my Olympus in Greece. With technology we know that isn't True.

We know succubi don't sit on people's chest and suffocate them in their sleep.

Today's facts contain more truth as our capacities increase

[ranaya]

Relativity as well as truth when perceived conceptually are all equal. Because they are mind made, or at least a verbal expression of the absolute truth. Since truth is beyond our mind-body duality, it can only be experienced energitically. I explained it here well:

https://incarnated-masters.blogspot.com/2023/06/is-calling-eternal-self-wrong.html?m=1

 

https://incarnated-masters.blogspot.com/?m=1

 

[Leo Gura]

All perspectives are not equal.

Some perspectives are more self-contradictory than others.

Delusion can be thought of as a measure of self-contradiction. The problem isn't that your perspective contradicts other perspectives, the problem is that your perspective contradicts itself and then you deny those contradictions through dishonesty.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Rishabh R]

So , @Leo Gura when other's give me perspectives like you are not capable of doing  X, you will never be able to do X etc. Then is it a delusion ?

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Rishabh R said:

So , @Leo Gura when other's give me perspectives like you are not capable of doing  X, you will never be able to do X etc. Then is it a delusion ?

Depends on whether you can do it.

If I tell you that you cannot jump to the moon, that's probably true.

When it comes to evaluating your own abilities you actually have to test it, you cannot know a priori what you are capable of. Sometimes you will find that you fail to do things you were sure you could do. And other times you will find that you are able to do things which you thought you never could. Both will be the case.

You won't know until you try, which is why you should try lots of stuff and try hard.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Depends on whether you can do it.

If I tell you that you cannot jump to the moon, that's probably true.

When it comes to evaluating your own abilities you actually have to test it, you cannot know a priori what you are capable of. Sometimes you will find that you fail to do things you were sure you could do. And other times you will find that you are able to do things which you thought you never could. Both will be the case.

You won't know until you try, which is why you should try lots of stuff and try hard.

I want to go insane, like alien insane. 

[Rishabh R]

@Leo Gura like some people in my life told me that you can't get a girlfriend but even though I never had a girlfriend but I flirted with many girls, was close to s*x with a girl, girls talked to me on their own etc. So is it true or just a limiting belief that others induced upon me ?

[Moksha]

All perspectives are untrue, but some are more cluttered by false beliefs than others. The perspective of an enlightened being is broader and clearer than the perspective of a being completely ensnared in its mind.

The absolute may experience its cosmos more directly through an enlightened being, but even in the absence of beliefs, the portal and its perspective remain imaginary props.

[Ajax]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Delusion can be thought of as a measure of self-contradiction. The problem isn't that your perspective contradicts other perspectives, the problem is that your perspective contradicts itself and then you deny those contradictions through dishonesty.

So beautiful! Thank you for this.

[gettoefl]

truth is absolute false is a continuum ... some things will lead you to the truth more quickly than others, namely they are closer to truth

some teachers for example will resonate strongly and bring you to the goal swiftly while others leave you mired in the delusion

[retrocausal]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All perspectives are not equal.

Some perspectives are more self-contradictory than others.

Delusion can be thought of as a measure of self-contradiction. The problem isn't that your perspective contradicts other perspectives, the problem is that your perspective contradicts itself and then you deny those contradictions through dishonesty.

Does this hint that a self-contradictory perspective is self contradictory because it isn't ONE, but many perspectives all fighting for dominance? Eg. one's perspective on their physical attractiveness may come into conflict with their experience with (perspective on) women. In this case it's not a perspective but many that as a whole are self contradictory. 

Then following, the only self consistent perspective is one that is all-encompassing, because it is in conflict with no other perspectives. And this would be.... pure actuality?

Edited July 5, 2023 by retrocausal

[retrocausal]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Delusion can be thought of as a measure of self-contradiction

This is gold - this is going in my notebook. Much love.

[retrocausal]

I have learned a lot through all these responses. It really reminds me that while there is an ABSOLUTE tier of understanding, discounting the tiers of abstraction beneath the absolute is shooting yourself in the foot. There is truth at all levels of abstraction & self-development.

When you are at a low state of consciousness, your petty ego delusions are true (for you) and discounting them in favour of an absolute perspective doesn't solve these troubles -- it's just a distraction. Acknowledging self-delusion as a measure of self contradiction snuffs out the will to distract oneself in this way.

Eg. Seeing all perspectives as false, or true, or neither, is an attempt to speak from the absolute perspective while imposing relative values upon it. It's really a mind-game.

[Adrian colby]

After having the experience of awareness imagining myself into a reality, in order to hold onto it I had to believe it was real. The first self deception leading to forgetting what I was. As I form more and more beliefs and disbeliefs, the deeper into my own self deception I fall. Once I become aware that has happened I can watch out for those beliefs. Some of my experiences I can prove to my others where we can experience together and others I cannot because they only occur when I dissolve this reality. This is where personal verification is important and stands above what someone else has said or written. There comes a time when you develop your mind to a point that it doesn’t need others input to navigate through its reality. Others collapse and become one speaking to itself

[caspex]

You're infinite. What we call delusion is when infinity views itself at a lower resolution/clarity. Escaping Delusion would be simply infinity being infinity at a higher resolution. That's the difference. You are correct that Delusion doesn't exist. This is because Delusion is a blurry line drawn by us humans.
For me, the line is drawn at knowing infinity's true nature vs. not. But ofcourse this line is artificial. This doesn't mean all perspectives are at the same level, in terms of resolution.