Wrong Insight: 'Nothing exists outside of MY mind' - Leo's Greatest Pitfall

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Moksha said:

What is realization, if not seeing reality for what it actually is?

You do not see reality for what it is. I promise you. You are living in a human spiritual fantasy and whatever you call realization is 1% of what you could be conscious of. Since you are so lacking in consciousness you just call the best of what you know "realization", but this means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Spiritual people are simply too unconscious to know that their highest realizations are just human illusions.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

What is realization, if not seeing reality for what it actually is?

Look up the naturalistic fallacy or the is-ought fallacy. That’s what your doing here.

Reality is as it is, but that doesn’t mean you are to act a certain way. Just because it is doesn’t mean you ought.

Edited July 11, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Moksha]

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

1. Sadhguru is also a false mystic. They are all big fat human rats! No rat on this planet has solved the Maze. Rewatch Leo’s video on Life is A Maze. The big fat, Leo mentioned in that video, who gets all the rats to get the cheese for him is basically all your Sadhgurus, Moojis, Buddhas, etc.

If you truly believe that, why are you pursuing awakening? I understand your skepticism, but do you see that it is actually possible to see?

Seeing has a price, but it's rare that the absolute decides to actually pay it.

[Moksha]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Spiritual people are simply too unconscious to know that their highest realizations are just illusions.

When you awaken, you realize that everything is an illusion, including even awakening. It's a dream, and the absolute chooses whether or not to experience it lucidly. It can do so, without suffering, and it's by the path of direct realization.

If you just look within you, there is a brilliance that spills over every boundary. LOOK.

[Leo Gura]

I'm done here.

[tuku747]

Nobody on planet Earth knows not more than 0.001% of what God is because God is Infinity. Even God is a mystery to itself, ad infinitum.

That's Infinity for you!

Edited July 11, 2023 by tuku747

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura ohhhh hmmmm

Edited July 11, 2023 by Thought Art

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, tuku747 said:

Nobody on planet Earth knows not more than 0.001% of what God is because God is Infinity. Even God is a mystery to itself, ad infinitum.

That's Infinity for you!

That’s nonduality for you! 

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

No rat on this planet has solved the Maze.

I think I’ve came pretty close 

 

[gettoefl]

nice slug fest thank you, good to see Leo taking some serious hits, a dose of humble pie helps all of us from time to time

[Arthogaan]

5 hours ago, Moksha said:

When you awaken, you realize that everything is an illusion, including even awakening. It's a dream, and the absolute chooses whether or not to experience it lucidly. It can do so, without suffering, and it's by the path of direct realization.

When you have a nightly dream when you sleep, you can realize that it is a dream. It does not matter what technique you will use inside the dream, your dream character can meditate for x years or can take a psychedelic inside the dream, and then the dream character realizes that it is a dream. So he AWAKENS, and the dream becomes lucid. But then the awakened character can fall back into the dream and he can still experience fear and suffering, and he can be mean to others in a dream. So this analogy clearly shows that you can Awaken and then still have sufferings and meanness. Abiding in awakening is far different than direct realization that the dream is the dream dreamed by you.

[Water by the River]

6 hours ago, Moksha said:

When you awaken, you realize that everything is an illusion, including even awakening. It's a dream, and the absolute chooses whether or not to experience it lucidly. It can do so, without suffering, and it's by the path of direct realization.

If you just look within you, there is a brilliance that spills over every boundary. LOOK.

I basically wrote the same here:

On 2.7.2023 at 11:34 PM, Water by the River said:

Why don't you make some nice definitions of what God-Realization is according to your definition, and why that is higher than FULL Enlightenment?

• With emphazis on FULL Enlightenment, in which each and every and possible appearance/arising/separate-self anything is seen as mere appearance/manifestation/illusion/dream IN THAT (One without a second, Absolute, Nothingness), and each and every backgroundstory (history, others, past, spiritual system, separate self-arising, ANYTHING) is seen as dream/mirage/illusion? As dream/mirage/illusion arising here and now, its essence being Nothingness.
• Not the partial Enlightenments, which are probably 50 times more common than the real thing. In the partial Enlightenments, of course there is still the background-BS-story still active, because the separate-self (even the empty and unity/nondual version of it) still dreams its dream? A more lucid dream, but not woken up yet?
• The constant similiarity between all FULL Enlightenment descriptions is: ALL is dream, ALL is Lila, ALL is Illusion/mirage, All is show. Lila= Absolute/God/Reality fooling itself to play a little game... And not only ALL of it is a Dream/Fooling oneself, ANY possible n+1 form/arising can only be dreaming/fooling oneself.
• How can God Realization go "deeper" in understanding the illusion of "how God fools itself" than Full Enligthenment, if in Full Enlightenment each and any concept/feeling-arising, especially deep ones of the separate-anything-self, are seen as fooling oneself? Like in, any possible form at all, n+1?

in the post below. Linking to the same questions from months ago. No real answer also, besides some anecdotes abouts rats and icepicks.

@Moksha, apparently (and actually) there is no counter-argument remaining concerning what you wrote. 

Basically, it boils down to the these two aspects:

1) Full Enlightenment = all is illusion, imagination and dream, n+1 (my post quoted above). The realization (all is illusion&dream&imagined) as such apparently is still considered as valid, although that is denied when claimed by Buddhist or "Nonduals" or whatevers, which are supposedly all still dreaming. Without giving any reasons for that, and which is contrary to your experience, and that of countless others having realized their True Nature.

2) Suffering continues until stable establishment of staying permanently in ones True Identity of being Infinite Impersonal Reality/Consciousness (or stable Full Enlightenment), and having the Illusion arising within Oneself. Which requires the complete transcendence/death of any separate-self identity. Apparently a hefty price to be paid. Maybe to hefty for some, surrendering all ones attachments and preferences. All would be so nice and well and lovely, but all these Buddhist rats and other horrible stuff manifesting as illusion in ones dream , apparently still with the potential to spoil the beauty of Absolute Reality Awakening.

For me, it looks a bit like some like chasing ones own tail. And being a little bit less than happy if somebody points out that the tail & everything else IS already Ones True Being, and rather prefers to not join the chasing & delighting in the chase. 

To each his own & Caveat Emptor.

Selling Water by the River

 

[Carl-Richard]

On 10.7.2023 at 8:58 AM, StarStruck said:

Never heard of David Chalmers. I will look into him.

Fun fact: he coined the term "the Hard problem of consciousness" back in the 90s.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Moksha]

7 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

Abiding in awakening is far different than direct realization that the dream is the dream dreamed by you.

I agree. Awakening is realizing who you are, and for most people it happens over and over again. Enlightenment is remaining awake within the dream. Lucidity deepens the more you dissolve.

@Water by the River The challenge of marketing spirituality is that you constantly have to oversell yourself. Your paycheck is only as good as your latest, most profound insight. What comes after nonduality > alien intelligence > infinity of gods?

Instead of selling water by the river, teach people to draw living water from within themselves.

[Breakingthewall]

lets see. For me, awakening is breaking the apparent limits, realizing that you are unlimited, infinite. and beyond, being aware that you really are, of the essence of reality, its quality, you. but, as @Leo Gura said, it can be much more to be conscious of. Are you aware right now of exactly how and why you are creating this experience? no, you are not, ramana maharshi was not, nor was buddha. Is Leo? Maybe yes, or maybe he's deluded, but let's give him a chance.   Let's see, this reality is perfect, and it has a purpose. to say: it is only a dream, only the absolute is real, is to simplify what is not simple. you are reality, therefore you can be fully aware, now, of what reality is.  

All those who say that they are awake in a traditional sense refer to realizing the infinite, and realizing what reality is, its essence. I realize that, more and more easily. I realize that I have always known. But there are limits, very clear. I do not realize how I am creating all this or why, and all this is being created to the micron, with absolute intentionality. So my realization is, let's say, diffuse and general, like an intuition. Obviously, there is more to see. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm done here

Thinking twice before throwing icepicks at rats? 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

Holy macaroni... as much as I love to watch a good old ideological mud slinging contest, can we all just agree to disagree?

Here's an idea: Let us nondualists pursue freedom from conceptual thinking and egoic attachment, let Leo and his groupies take the psychedelic express train to Alien Insanity la la land, and everybody's happy.

Sound good?

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Holy macarony... as much as I love to watch a good old ideological mud slinging contest, can we all just agree to disagree?

Here's an idea: Let us nondualists pursue freedom from conceptual thinking and attachment, let Leo and his groupies take the psychedelic express train to Alien Insanity la la land, and everybody's happy.

Sound good?

Leo and his groupies ?I guess you're calling Leo a celebrity.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Thinking twice before throwing icepicks at rats? 

I don't wanna hurt ya'lls feelings too much or you will eat me alive. So I hold my tongue. Even though some of you need a tongue-lashing.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't wanna hurt ya'lls feelings too much or you will eat me alive. So I hold my tongue. Even though some of you need a tongue-lashing.

Give it to me baby. Lol