Holy Fools and Idiot Savants

[Soul Flight]

Hello all. If we are god or god is dreaming all this, are we supposed to have an awakening or get enlightened? Is the point to embrace Maya and not go meta and acknowledge Maya? Are we gonna be angry with ourselves in the afterlife of non-duality because we went through all this trouble to have a good dream and we ruined the dream and kept trying to notice the dream? Or was our plan to have a dream and see if we could wake up from it?

Is the goal to be a Holy Fool or Idiot Savant and enjoy this dream and Maya? Are we on the path of a strange loop to go through all the steps and in the end arrive at being the Holy Fool or Idiot Savant? Would god (us/me) be more pleased with Holy Fools or with Buddhas? The Holy Fool embraced the dream. The Buddha woke up and annoyed the dreamer.

I was never a Holy Fool or Idiot Savant but I have a gnawing splinter in my brain and I feel compelled to strive for enlightenment or god realization or an awakening. Are we a glitch in the Matrix? Are we better off accepting our dharma?

Thanks.

[Moksha]

You are the hand guiding the puppet to create and eventually consume its dharma. Eventually, the puppet is removed and your true identity is revealed. You are the absolute within which Holy Fools and Idiot Savants are born and die.

[Soul Flight]

@Moksha Thanks for the response. Is it fair to say "the absolute" has no agenda and is unconcerned whether we are holy fools, un-awakened, or awakened? All roles are equal? For some reason, those of us on this forum feel a compulsion to awaken and that is our dharma?

I get the feeling the Holy Fool and the Idiot Savant are the pinnacle achievement. They enjoy life and accept Maya. If I awaken, I will simply be a Holy Fool who knows he's a Holy Fool and embraces it and therefore I will be "the absolute?" It is a strange loop for a Holy Fool to realize he is a Holy Fool and then be "the absolute" as a Holy Fool.

I guess I'm just asking what is the point of awakening? It's perfectly ok to remain un-awakened right? We all have our dharma? If we pursue awakening for egoic purposes or to end suffering, is that greedy and these motivations will derail us?

[Moksha]

@Soul Flight Your destiny is determined by your desire:

You are what your deep, driving 
desire is.
As you desire it, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.

- Upanishads

You're right that enlightenment is the pinnacle state of being, within the dream. You become free, and are able to enjoy experience without being afflicted by it. There are still obstacles to overcome and goals to achieve, but you are able to enjoy the journey without being attached to the outcome. It is direct living, unfiltered by false desires, which are inevitably unfulfilling. The peace of your true nature is always present, regardless of what happens around you.

Most people spend their lives suffering. They don't desire to suffer, but suffering is the result of their desires. It's the karma of their actions. Eventually, we learn to leverage our suffering to create space from the conditioned mind, and realize the absolute within.

It's not greedy to desire freedom from suffering, and pursue the truth of who you are. It's the purest expression of love.

[Ajax]

3 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

 

 

 

Hello, your post is too confusing for a simple guy like me. Would you clear up some concepts for me? It is important to be on the same page if we are to communicate about this. 

3 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

If we are god or god is dreaming all this, are we supposed to have an awakening or get enlightened?

1. What do you know god is dreaming? Because Leo told you? Did Leo tell you everything about the dream? What is the dream? If you told Leo what you thought about the dream.... Would he say "YES! That is exactly what the dream is!"  How do you know your understanding is the same as Leo's understanding. After all Leo would not ask that question. In public, anyway lol.

2. If you are taking Leo's idea as Truth... what does Leo say about awakening or enlightenment. You should already if you believe as Leo does. Or at least do a Thread search as see what Leo has to say about enlightenment and awaking.... I'll save you the trouble... He says it's "horseshit". So If you take what leo has defined Truth you have to realize that awakening and enlightenment is horseshit. But once you realize that, you will then have to realize it is not horseshit, its donkey shit, not! Its Zebra Shit Its No-Shit Its ALL-Shit... see... Do you see what Leo sees? I'm just being silly.

3 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

Is the point to embrace Maya and not go meta and acknowledge Maya?

What? What? in the Butt?  You can't mesh your concepts with your own if you are going to take Leo's definition.

What is Maya? If Leo can keep Truth in under 10 words could you do that with both Maya and Meta. I have no idea what that means, and If I try to understand it in my own way it will be a false reality.

3 hours ago, Soul Flight said:

Are we gonna be angry with ourselves in the afterlife of non-duality because we went through all this trouble to have a good dream and we ruined the dream and kept trying to notice the dream?

Bro, bro, bro. Get your definitions straight first.  Let me demonstrate. 

Duality means 2.  It means Life-Death, Black- White, Solid-Liquid, Open-Closed, Zero- Infinity Matter-Energy.... See It is the belief that everything that exists has an opposite. 

Non-duality literally "not 2".  Which means duality is not True. Anything that has an opposite is not true. 

if you don't know this basic definition, you are already lost ." Afterlife of non-duality" see, that is just wrong from the beginning.

 

I don't mean to be harsh; I am a nice person. I promise lol. But you are makings things so complicated that you have no idea what you are saying. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Ajax

[Breakingthewall]

@Soul Flight  

don't compare yourself to anyone. you are alone, existing. focus on this moment, what is it? man, how not to have the need to go as deep as possible? we are now experiencing the mystery of existence. Just get through the surface, playing silly games? impossible. We have to go to the bottom, we have to penetrate, we have to open this moment completely. Don't do it is simply be stupid. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Soul Flight]

Howdy. Thanks to all the replies here. I appreciate it.

@Ajax I am sure you are a nice person. I have a lot to learn. I need better vocabulary. Thanks for your questions.

1. I first discovered Hinduism and the concept of Vishnu dreaming all realities and the concept of Maya as the dream or the illusion. My feeling is Leo accepts this also.

2. I'm not sure what Leo says about awakening or enlightenment. But I suspect once I see it, maybe it is bullshit in that Zen Koan kinda way. The Zen Master's seem to wink and giggle and laugh at the apprentice once he awakens. It seems like I need to have the realization and experience that I was enlightened all along and I was god all along.

I feel like Maya is the false reality or the dream or illusion. I am wondering why should we wake up from the dream? It would be "meta" to acknowledge Maya. I would be happier as a Holy Fool immersed in Maya. Right now I am intellectually acknowledging Maya and I have gone "meta." Ignorance is bliss so maybe it is better not to notice Maya. But I like what @Moksha said above about direct living and not being attached to the outcome of our pursuits and being at peace if we can get enlightened.

My phrase "afterlife of non-duality" means "the absolute" or unity or death or the cosmic oneness. I wonder if when we die, we merge with "the absolute" and we might be annoyed with everyone on this forum trying to wake up from the dream/Maya. Is the point to be the Holy Fool? Maybe enlightenment is a mistake and a glitch in the Matrix.

I hope that clarifies my posts.

[Ajax]

4 minutes ago, Soul Flight said:

1. I first discovered Hinduism and the concept of Vishnu dreaming all realities and the concept of Maya as the dream or the illusion. My feeling is Leo accepts this also.

Haha, that helps me understand, thank you. I have almost no understanding of Hindu gods. I first though Vishnu was the elephant god that you see in the Simpsons. I had to look it up and realize it is Ganesh. I also know there is shiva because it is a god-like creature in many final fantasy games, a childhood game I played when I was a child. But Final Fantasy Shiva is a female and that is not true in Hindu religion. I also know about Durga Ma, but only because she likes to put her feet on people, and I have a crazy foot fetish...

Haha, see. I have almost no exposure to Hindu Religion. I have read some holy books like the Gita. But these are just Imaginary characters to me, like characters from a tv show.  We cannot share ideas because I don't know anything about your culture.

Spiritual teachings change as time changes because everything changes. Not even the best Veda Scholars would understand the Veda like the people who lived 4000 years ago. The world has changed so much, culture has changed so much. Hindu is not the same as it was 4000 years ago. It is a very different religion. Your belief of Maya is not the same as it was 4000+ years ago when the books were written. Your knowledge of Maya is not the same as a westerner who has only read a few books on the subject. It is not the same Maya. 

23 minutes ago, Soul Flight said:

I feel like Maya is the false reality or the dream or illusion. I am wondering why should we wake up from the dream?

Ah we are getting somewhere now. Beautiful! My awareness of it is nowhere the same of Leo, but I get the feeling that the "maya" is constantly changing, creating, itself, duplicating itself, just like a dream... it is anything you imagine coming to life.  There is so much more to this, but I don't feel like taxing my mind to get into what I have personally discovered. 

Why? What else is there to do when you are perfect?

30 minutes ago, Soul Flight said:

My phrase "afterlife of non-duality" means "the absolute" or unity or death or the cosmic oneness. I wonder if when we die, we merge with "the absolute"

I am going to use the short, ND for non duality... These are dualistic concepts you are speaking.  Unity implies Separation.. ND means there is no separation so there can be no Unity. There is nothing to Unite. Death and Life is the same. There is no difference between life and death. 

You are only thinking in dualistic terms. In non duality. There is no me and you. There is no male or female. There is no human and planet. 

It is a mind reality trip. It is really difficult to reach this conclusion.   You can't do it by the teachings of holy men and buddhas that have appeared in the past. 

[Ajax]

@Soul Flight  I think I took this too far, I am sorry. 
 

A good place to start is raising your awareness to the point where you see the flaws in dualistic concepts.  Here is a very simple one. UP and DOWN.  Place a cup on a desk. Bend down until are lower than the cup. Notice that the cup is up and you are down. Now, Stand up. The cup is down and you are up.  So ask yourself in terms of absolutes. Is the cup UP or is it DOWN? Don't just say it. but really contemplate it. for like an hour nonstop. No music, no phones, no nothing just you and your thoughts about the cup. For 30 minutes only think about what you were standing up, the cup was down and the other 30 minds, when you were sitting down, why the cup was up.

Now imagine doing that exercise times over 100+ times.  It has nothing to do what you learned. Learning is deleting what you have learned. It is not adding more data its deleting data. 

Non-dualism is not easy. 

Remember this one definition: Spirituality is the personal journey of self-discovery. Anything that you read, see, or hear should only be used for the purpose of learning. If you can't use it, don't keep it. If it doesn't make sense to you, It is not helping you on your journey. When you are walking a journey, you want to pack light, don't you?

However, tell me in one sentence. What is the one question that matters the most to you? Search your heart and soul. That is you starting point. Not god, or mara or reality. What matters to you at this very moment. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Ajax