Affirmative action: US Supreme Court overturns race-based college admissions

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Hardkill said:

But many true geniuses such as Einstein, Socrates, Noam Chomsky, Mozart, Leonardo, Picasso, Da Vinci, all went to and taught at top universities including MIT, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton, and many other prestigious colleges/universities. So, did all of them become grossly corrupt?

Most of those "geniuses" are overrated. And any genius they had did not come from those universities but despite them.

Many intellectuals have no choice but to work through the university system because they have no financial independence.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

I just got rejected by a top school recently and I was figuring out what to do next and found out something 20x better just after researching for 2 weeks on YT. Even many companies in the tech scene have shifted to skill based hiring which means they will hire you fresh out of school, given that you have skills.

I do not value higher education so much. Not only will it set you up in a scientific paradigm lock, you will end up being the cash cow for some multi billion corporation. There days there are so many available.

So I don't want to make too much of a fuss about affirmative action although it breaks my heart to see someone who is so extremely hardworking could get rejected and lesser qualified candidates get in because their great great great great grand dad was oppressed by someone else's great great great great grand dad. 

What really pisses me off is removal of gifted programs and treating all kids like sheep as if all kids learn at the same rate. We can choose to ditch college but we have no choice but to attend basic schooling. And schools don't teach you anything at all. It's disrespectful to serious students. 

[Bobby_2021]

14 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

@Bobby_2021 I've a friend like that actually. Scored perfectly on all medschool exams (step 1, step2, all that jazz) and got rejected by most programs despite being #1 in his class. Ended up at an average school 

 

That's sad. He should make up for the long opportunity in the long term. If he scored perfect scores, then he got it in him.  

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura Can you explain exactly what is so corrupt about Harvard or MIT?

What I understand is The idea of seeking high grades to enter these universities is silly in itself. Like These universities will turn you into a genius or something. I would prefer going to a decent university and then working on myself from there.

[PurpleTree]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:.

Compare me to Lex Fridman and you see the clear difference. I would kill myself before trading places with him.

?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Can you explain exactly what is so corrupt about Harvard or MIT?

It's a status pyramid game full of insane group-think. It is not concerned about truth-seeking or consciousness.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a status pyramid game full of insane group-think. It is not concerned about truth-seeking or consciousness.

 

[DieFree]

On 7/1/2023 at 0:07 PM, Leo Gura said:

Affirmative action has been banned in California for 20 years. Just think about that.

What are progressives crying about?

California's courts and its Supreme Court are all very liberal. The quasi affirmative action programs practiced in California - which still produce low levels of black students- had the benefit of those liberal courts as well as the fact affirmative action was legal at the federal level. Now lawsuits can bypass the state courts and go directly to the federal level. 

[DieFree]

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

?

For the record, Lex did not attend MIT but Drexel. He is so status obsessed though that he conceals this and gives off the appearance of going to MIT. His own relationship to MIT is as some loosely associated lecturer. 

[LSD-Rumi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a status pyramid game full of insane group-think. It is not concerned about truth-seeking or consciousness.

But doing science in 90% of cases doesn't require Truth-seeking or consciousness.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

But doing science in 90% of cases doesn't require Truth-seeking or consciousness.

So? Why would that matter?

Doing science is not the function of life. It's a tangent.

Humans could create a Harvard-like institution where everyone badly wants to go. Where everyone would clammor to pay $100k to sit around and jerk off in a circle for 4 years. At the end of those 4 years you would get a gold certificate and a well-paying job for the rest of your life in the circle jerk industry.

And all of thar would be irrelevant to living a good life.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[LSD-Rumi]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

So? Why would that matter?

I mean it is not as bad as you are saying. Maybe it is bad when it comes to doing philosophy or politics or history, but not when it comes to science, doing science doesn't require thinking outside group thinking.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, LSD-Rumi said:

doing science doesn't require thinking outside group thinking.

Yes it does.

[LSD-Rumi]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes it does.

Maybe if it is a ground-shattering sort of science but most science is not.

[Tudo]

We have affirmative actions here in Brazil for getting into public universities, and this works pretty fine. Sad the the US Supreme Court decided against it.

What are you opinions on affirmative actions @Leo Gura?

@Bobby_2021  Bro, meritocracy is a half truth. Only deluded and naive people think it's completely true. And I'm super pro-capitalism, so I'm not being biased here about all the "work-hard' stuff.

While it's true that working hard increases a lot your chances of success, the truth is that sometimes its just not enough given all the  circumstances black people have being under for centuries.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Tudo

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, Tudo said:

Bro, meritocracy is a half truth.

Fully agree. But to claim that every one deserves equal opportunity is complete dogshit.

Meritocracy is rewarding people who work hard and make the right choices. Not everyone will do that. So there will always be an unfair playing ground. That's a feature of life,not just meritocratic/capitalists systems. 

[PurpleTree]

Seems like a good thing.

There have to be other ways to help the less fortunate and wealthy.
 

( wrote this into the wrong topic before )

[Israfil]

On 30/06/2023 at 11:40 AM, Bobby_2021 said:

Affirmative action: US Supreme Court overturns race-based college admissions

No more race based admission in college.  These affirmative action policies always disgusted me. Right from removal of gifted programs for kids to race(or caste based here in India), affirmative action policies are kind of secretly racist.

If this does not sound racist to you I do not know what will.

Affirmative action policies are discriminatory to students who work hard and excel. They prioritize kids who belong to 40 percentile over meritorious students from 90 percentile. Several Asian students who reported near perfect scores in SAT were left depressed because their scores were not enough for them to make into Ivy leagues. 

Affirmative action is never a stage yellow policy to overcome the oppression of the past. It is a knee jerk green reactionary policy (including the removal of gifted programs). The problem with admitting with students with weak scores is that they cannot keep up with the rigid curriculum ,so they tend to drop out or underperform since they are surrounded by over achieving counterparts. This is weird and humiliating in many levels. It is humiliating and depressing for the kids who get admitted into elite schools and for those who could not get into elite schools despite having meritorious scores.

What could be a stage yellow level policy that could replace affirmative action?

Thoughts.

https://www.redalyc.org/journal/4417/441762758002/html/

This is one study. Your conclusion of performance is misguided. There are few differences in performance between affirmative action students and regular admission ones. Most people that get affirmative action admissions see this as a gateway out of poverty and work hard to graduate and ascend the social ladder. You say about green stage knee jerk, but you're coming from an orange stage knee jerk here.

[SeaMonster]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:56 AM, Israfil said:

This is one study. Your conclusion of performance is misguided. There are few differences in performance between affirmative action students and regular admission ones. Most people that get affirmative action admissions see this as a gateway out of poverty and work hard to graduate and ascend the social ladder. You say about green stage knee jerk, but you're coming from an orange stage knee jerk here.

Why are you bringing up a Brazilian study when this is happening in the US, with its own particular set of circumstances? 

The affirmative action black students I went to college with had uniformly the lowest GPAs.  Now you could argue that the reason they did is the same one they had lower SAT scores, but at some point reality must enter and colorblind performance must be the marker.

Anyway, I largely agree with Leo here about Ivy League colleges: it's a status scam.  They're not better colleges necessarily, just more selective and sell status.  I went to a university where my major was 12th ranked in the country (higher than some Ivies) and I know for a fact that a lot of professors at these types of schools aren't even good lecturers, they put you to sleep.  (BTW, my SATs were better than the average of every single university in the country so it's not like I wasn't smart enough.)

They're not there because they're great teachers but because they excel at research (which doesn't necessarily do you much good, unless you're a grad student maybe.)  Ultimately it's down to you to crack the books and learn this stuff, so you're paying for prestige and not much else.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by SeaMonster