Valuetainment Has LOST It

[zurew]

On 2023. 07. 03. at 3:48 AM, Philipp said:

What could improve the epistemic ecosystem?

Thats probably one of the hardest questions ever and it is a very hard problem (maybe impossible to solve in the case of adults).

It requires a very long deliberate process where you need to demonstrate through a lot of arguments and hypotheticals why their thoughtprocess will predict a lot less things accurately than your epistemic process and why your epistemic process more reliable in general.  One of the hardest part is that you need to be extremely patient about it and you need to be extremely  careful about your rhetoric (you need to present it and approach it in a way ,where the person feels safe in your presence and won't feel like they will get gotcha'd or that they will get trapped or that they will feel dumb).

That kind of thing  (that I described above) takes a lot of practice and intelligence to figure out how to go about it and even then it is not guaranteed that you will change people's thoughtprocess/epistemic process.

 

Regarding a more healthy informational ecosystem (where even if we assume that the epistemic process is the same, we still need things to stop the deliberate information poisioning), we need certain incentives that are non-existent right now:

• For example lets just think  - what reward do you get if you seriously try to analyze everything as objectively as you possible can? You will get almost no reward, and not just that, but you will get punishment from whatever group you are in, therefore you are incentivised to get stuck in a group think as much as possible.
• What is the reward for not taking strong position on something that you are not so sure about? You get no reward and not just that, but again, you will get punishment from almost everyone.
• What is the reward for arguing with the group that you are deeply invested in (and where people maybe depended on you or where you are depended on them)?
• What is the reward and incentive for stopping in a middle of a debate and acknowledgeing that the person you debate with knows more about the topic than you, or that you seriously don't know the answers to his questions - in other words - whats the reward for epistemic humility?

Just to be clear: when I say incentives - in this context I mostly refer to social reward or punishment, but of course it could be financial or any other incentive as well.

Edited July 4, 2023 by zurew

[Epikur]

4 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Making a predication. Zherka will be the next guy who scrambles the brains of millions of people. He's like Alex Jones crossed with Andrew Tate. Pretty insane combo 

I don't think so. The guy is an obvious troll.

[Danioover9000]

   What an ignorant take by PBD:

   He's ignorant of how history is all a development, based on SD stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, states of consciousness, other lines of development in other life and societal domains, especially ideological beliefs indoctrinated, groomed and gaslight by culture, and self biases and preferences. PBD is ignorant that he's also indoctrinated by this anti LGBTQ agenda, and is spouting nonsense here. Never seeing this guy as credible, and blocking this guy's content.

[Danioover9000]

@Danioover9000

Just now, Danioover9000 said:

   What an ignorant take by PBD:

   He's ignorant of how history is all a development, based on SD stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, states of consciousness, other lines of development in other life and societal domains, especially ideological beliefs indoctrinated, groomed and gaslight by culture, and self biases and preferences. PBD is ignorant that he's also indoctrinated by this anti LGBTQ agenda, and is spouting nonsense here. Never seeing this guy as credible, and blocking this guy's content.

   Also, he's ignorant in that he's underestimating the scale of danger and damage here, thinking that the LGBTQ movement is a greater danger, when in fact throughout history it's been the traditionalists, Monarchs, Feudalists, and Nationalists, of which white supremacists and Ethnocentric nationalists take advantage of the system to  bully and demonize others different to themselves, who also happen to be majority heterosexual and traditional males and females. Sweeping the vast amounts of historical events of demonizing LGBTQ people, by predominantly heterosexual people, under rigid systems, and sweeping counter evidences of how vicious the bullying and demeaning actions towards minority groups, which this PBD guy is also a part of.

[Dauntment]

PBD sold his MLM business and probably still feels the need to be very active in business.....

in other words....."whatever gets lots of views". Truth vs Survival; This is one of the critical elements that Leo brings with Actualized.org, not entertaining bullshit social games nor succumbing to low-brow titles for views/clicks (unlike %99.99999999 of other content creators, not a bash...just where society is)