Yes, dating for men is better in other countries

[mr_engineer]

8 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I have no problem with creating relationships, I have problem with abuse and exploitation, I will repeat it again if it's not clear to you.

No, it's not clear to me. 'Abuse' and 'exploitation' are just words in this context. I don't remember you clarifying what these words practically mean. 

9 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

You keep insisting that I'm hating men after I told you that I don't. 

When you tell me that you're not hating men, I don't believe you. Because you're using words like 'abuse' and 'exploitation' willy-nilly. Do you even know what it means?! 

10 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There is a difference between dating people from another ethnicity in your country which is good, and between buying brides from poor countries so they will be dependent on you.

Isn't this misogynistic, though?! Aren't you insulting the women in those other countries, that they're unable to deal with men on an equal footing, that they're these 'damsels in distress that need to be saved'? 

Making a providing-commitment, which the third-world countries value and expect from men in general, is not the same as 'buying her'. If anything, he will have Western individualistic values and that will be a gift to her, compared to the more oppressive society that she's living in. 

If you say that 'those third-world women don't know what they're getting themselves into, because they're not conditioned to be independent, and that's internalized misogyny of their culture that the passport-bros take advantage of', that's misogynistic on your part. You're insulting their level of maturity and wisdom when it comes to making life-changing decisions. And, what you're also saying is that 'female independence' is an absolute good and that anyone who disagrees is immature. What if, they don't actually believe that? What if they believe in 'interdependence' more than 'independence'? And, what if, when they make it work and they see you complaining about the situation, they think that you're the one being immature? That 'independence' doesn't actually work well for women, because women don't have that level of physical strength and testosterone? And that it's totally fine to let men do the providing? 

11 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Then don't read my posts if you consider this as masturbation.

30 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I'm expressing myself. I have the right to do that. To provide my own perspective. My opinions don't have to be similar to yours to be valubale.

 

Name one person who actually cares about your opinion on this. Whose life actually gets affected by your opinion on this. If you can't, this proves that the fact that this is masturbation isn't just 'my opinion', it's the objective truth. 

14 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I don't remember saying it's the norm, neither shaming it.

You said 'usually'. Strong word. 

14 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I know that there are men in very bad and desparete situations who want love which is normal.

But they have lots of trauma, misogynist views, victim mentality and other psychological and spiritual obstacles that make it harder for them to find love. I don't think that paying money for a bride can compensate on that or resolve that. It's a very shallow solution for usually deeper problems.

This is true. I don't agree with the solution either. But, I will defend their right to give it a shot and see how it goes. 

22 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

To improve their survival, to financially sustain their families. Some of them have children to take care of, elderly parents, or simply they want a better lives and more opportunities that can be given only in developed countries.

From their perspective at their stage of development this deal seems alluring like a nice fairly tale.

It's a whole business and there are brokers who sell it well, both to the man and to the woman.

But the men who come from developed country with significantly more power that the women have, should know better.

The way the biggest stakeholders see this, is that those third-world women are beating the first-world women in the competition to get these men. And now, after losing the competition, you're sour-graping them. 

31 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

What do you mean by "love doesn't take work?"

I mean that in the case of love, no matter what you do to 'earn' love, if the other person chooses to not love you, if they choose to not consider your best-interests, there's nothing you can do about it. Whether you're loved or not by someone else, is purely their choice. (Even if that someone else is yourself, in the case of self-love). If they are a loving human being, they will choose to love you. And, if they're not, they won't make that choice, no matter what you do. 

[mr_engineer]

Just now, Lila9 said:

It should be clear to anyone what is abuse and exploitation. You may want to open dictionary and check it if you hear these words for the first time.

See?! They're just words. You're not clarifying what they mean in practice. The dictionary will just have more theory. Not practical information. 

1 minute ago, Lila9 said:

This is your personal problem and that have nothing to do with reality.

You're just saying that 'it has nothing to do with reality'. When it does. And I have proof that it does. 

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I didn't say any of those claims.

It's the rational conclusion from what you did say. 

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I simply wrote what I think like any member on this forum. If it's a masturbation for you, and you don't care about my opinion, then don't read.

That's not the answer to my question. 

7 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

A red pill propaganda? 

What propaganda? It's just logic. 

[eos_nyxia]

I wonder how many of the guys in here are prepared to deal with the reality of having a mixed-race child. (I guess I'm thinking mainly of white men going to East Asian countries because they have certain ideas about what East Asian women are like.)

Reading through these comments makes me glad that I had the father that I did, at least in this particular way. Kids who have had dads with attitudes like the ones that I've seen in threads like these.... tend to have some serious identity issues. And serious self-loathing, whether directed inward or out.

Edited June 26, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[integral]

On 6/25/2023 at 4:35 PM, Roy said:

Why should we (men) have to work 8x harder for results in a rigged game?

Its not rigged, the woman most men are attracted to want to date men at the same level of development as them. I dont date hypergamy orange women so the game is easy. 

[integral]

1 hour ago, eos_nyxia said:

I wonder how many of the guys in here are prepared to deal with the reality of having a mixed-race child

I wouldnt care if my child was purple with 7 legs. What difference does it make lol

[Tenebroso]

The women are the same in other countries they just don't have the economic means to behave as western women do. You see true female nature when a woman has some level of economic and cultural freedom. I am glad I was born and raised in contemporary western society instead of some 1950s idyll rooted in a historical anomaly. The fantasy of obedient, submissive women was always just a fantasy that is not who women are. Women lie, fight, steal, deceive just as men do just in different ways. Men are seeing real female nature for what is and are repelled but I see it as a gift. I won't denigrate the so called 'passport bros' but I prefer the challenge of dealing with liberated, complicated modern women in hyper competitive major cities there is great opportunity on both sides if you are open to it. 

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Tenebroso said:

The women are the same in other countries they just don't have the economic means to behave as western women do. You see true female nature when a woman has some level of economic and cultural freedom. I am glad I was born and raised in contemporary western society instead of some 1950s idyll rooted in a historical anomaly. The fantasy of obedient, submissive women was always just a fantasy that is not who women are. Women lie, fight, steal, deceive just as men do just in different ways. Men are seeing real female nature for what is and are repelled but I see it as a gift. I won't denigrate the so called 'passport bros' but I prefer the challenge of dealing with liberated, complicated modern women in hyper competitive major cities there is great opportunity on both sides if you are open to it. 

Let’s see if you maintain this attitude in 10 years. 

[eos_nyxia]

1 hour ago, integral said:

I wouldnt care if my child was purple with 7 legs. What difference does it make lol

I don't understand what you're getting at?

It's not about what prospective fathers are comfortable with, it's about prospective fathers not looking forward into the future and anticipating potential problems based on their choices, their behavior, and their mindsets. Or simply not having the tools or prerequisite ability to do so, because they lack perspective. If you're just from one race/ one culture, of course you won't just get it. You don't really need to in order to get by and live your life. Probably most people don't care enough at the end of the day, and when it really comes down to it, it's about getting theirs first. Getting the wife, the life, the kids you feel that you deserve. You could really just say this about people in general though.

Misogynistic and/or ""subtly racist"" motivations for doing things (or for that matter, legitimately being "anti-male") tends to find a way back to kids in the form of intergenerational trauma.

I look at dudes really going out of their way to find a wife in some poorer country from a completely different culture which is alien to the one that they grew up in, maybe they bring them back here or they stay here. Just based on listening to them talk.... yea, it's an emotional train wreck for their future kids. Pick your poison, there are quite a few.

At least if you stay here, you have a much better chance of knowing what you are actually getting into, lol. But by all means, roulette away...

Edited June 26, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[integral]

@eos_nyxia Well said!

[Raze]

3 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

I don't understand what you're getting at?

It's not about what prospective fathers are comfortable with, it's about prospective fathers not looking forward into the future and anticipating potential problems based on their choices, their behavior, and their mindsets. Or simply not having the tools or prerequisite ability to do so, because they lack perspective. If you're just from one race/ one culture, of course you won't just get it. You don't really need to in order to get by and live your life. Probably most people don't care enough at the end of the day, and when it really comes down to it, it's about getting theirs first. Getting the wife, the life, the kids you feel that you deserve. You could really just say this about people in general though.

Misogynistic and/or ""subtly racist"" motivations for doing things (or for that matter, legitimately being "anti-male") tends to find a way back to kids in the form of intergenerational trauma.

I look at dudes really going out of their way to find a wife in some poorer country from a completely different culture which is alien to the one that they grew up in, maybe they bring them back here or they stay here. Just based on listening to them talk.... yea, it's an emotional train wreck for their future kids. Pick your poison, there are quite a few.

At least if you stay here, you have a much better chance of knowing what you are actually getting into, lol. But by all means, roulette away...

This is thinking ahead though. Having relationships and raising kids in western countries is way riskier. Far higher rates of cheating, divorces, and much more likely the child grows up with depression or anxiety.

[Roy]

20 hours ago, Lila9 said:

You can hate women and feminists as much as you would like

I don't hate them. I just don't think they deserve respect romantically based on their attitudes and behaviors. It has to be earned.

I actually prefer women in my life over men as coworkers, acquaintances, friends, etc.

20 hours ago, Lila9 said:

but this cynical view that women don't want those men to have a successful dating life is a mere red pill bs.

It's not a viewpoint. It's how they are reacting to it and what they are saying verbatim for the most part.

[Roy]

7 hours ago, integral said:

Its not rigged, the woman most men are attracted to want to date men at the same level of development as them. I dont date hypergamy orange women so the game is easy. 

Most women will only allow themselves to be locked down with a man that is moderate to significantly better than them. This is abundantly obvious. Key word being most and not all because I know people are incapable of nuance.

[Sugarcoat]

On 2023-06-26 at 4:19 AM, MarkKol said:

People who grow up in this country without a single foreign language in their vocabulary are completely screwed in terms of development & education. The kids are all obsessed with video games and shockingly Immature YouTubers

The rest of the world is a much bigger place, therefore It's much more developed. Berlin and Madrid are literally almost bigger than Croatia itself.

Scandinavia's got healthy politics. The rest of Europe, United States and China have capitalism, strong industry, big populations, fucking amazing cities and night life, developed and unique cultures of their own.

Croatia, and realistically speaking... the Balkans have none of that. My love for bigger cities like Barcelona, Madrid, London and Dublin are practically limitless compared to Zagreb.

There's practically no racial, philosophical, ideological or perspectival diversity whatsoever. This is what bothers me most. Art is basically non existent besides music of course, and It's the tasteless kind of music that we have unfortunately. 

The numbers speak for themselves, Croatia has lost 10% of It's population in a decade. Now imagine 50-100 years.

That being said, I've met some great Croatians, just not as often or as many great people from other countries. Maybe It's just me.

Sweden's great, I'd like to visit soon but I postponed my trip because I gained interest in other countries. I swear these Spanish and Brazilian girls are made out of memory foam. so squishy and bouncy. ? 

Ok my stereotype must have something to it after all then ?

But I can understand if it’s lonely if you feel more developed and different than most in your surroundings 

 

honestly even if sweden is very developed and I dig a lot of people here I still don’t really feel connected and keep to myself mostly so if you’re into this work you’re gonna be unique wherever you do honestly

Regarding the music , for one moment I was gonna name some artists I like such as Rasta and Senidah but then I realized they’re not even Croatian ? it’s the same for me tho 

The nightlife is pretty dead here in Sweden too honestly so that’s the only thing I’d disagree w 

but otherwise I quite love it here , but not the most fun country in my opinion I believe there are way more interesting and fun things to see than for example Stockholm . Don’t get really why people would come here out of all the countries . What’s so interesting 

hahahah you’d love Swedish girls tho I bet despite them not being the squishiest bounciest perhaps but they got other things going for them . Me and my sister sometimes wonder are we ugly or do we just live in Stockholm???

 

 

 

[MarkKol]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Ok my stereotype must have something to it after all then ?

But I can understand if it’s lonely if you feel more developed and different than most in your surroundings 

 

honestly even if sweden is very developed and I dig a lot of people here I still don’t really feel connected and keep to myself mostly so if you’re into this work you’re gonna be unique wherever you do honestly

Regarding the music , for one moment I was gonna name some artists I like such as Rasta and Senidah but then I realized they’re not even Croatian ? it’s the same for me tho 

The nightlife is pretty dead here in Sweden too honestly so that’s the only thing I’d disagree w 

but otherwise I quite love it here , but not the most fun country in my opinion I believe there are way more interesting and fun things to see than for example Stockholm . Don’t get really why people would come here out of all the countries . What’s so interesting 

hahahah you’d love Swedish girls tho I bet despite them not being the squishiest bounciest perhaps but they got other things going for them . Me and my sister sometimes wonder are we ugly or do we just live in Stockholm???

Naaa, everyone is aware of how boring Scandinavia is. How could It not be? It's like the most well behaved child in the classroom. 

Personally I dig other countries a lot more, can't help it. 

I'd say every Balkan artist is a Croatian artist too, It's all the same shit. Last one I heard about was some mf called "Nucci". Garbage

Never really felt Croatian at heart, I have lots of love for the rest of Europe though.

The more capitalistic and industrial a country is, the less social it becomes. Germans work the least in the European Union, but by 10pm there's not a single soul on the street even in bigger cities like Munich.

I can only imagine how bad Sweden and Norway are. 

We should go to New York City or Toronto! The thrill of flying overseas is pulling at me day by day. 

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Of course. Women are humans who are capable of good and bad and the most reasonable thing is to accept it.

And yes, the ones who believe in the fantasy that somewhere there is the perfect submissive woman that bypassed the crude human nature and would happily pleasure them in sex in the way that they want without having sexual needs on her own, and clean and cook with no complaints, are completely deluded.

Some men have a serious problem with seeing women for what they are, they either demonize them or idealize them (they are either whores or madonnas).

If we compare it to the claims in this post, the bro passport type of men would demonize the women in their country and idealize the women aboard, while in reality, all the women are humans with good and bad traits, capable of various things.

This tendency to idealize women is the Achilles' heel (vulnerable point) of such men, makes it easier for women to trick them and exploit them.

You haven’t responded properly to anything anyone has said in this thread, every post from you is just full of assumptions. Nowhere did I ever demonize women in my home country or idealize women abroad. I am simply making a factual statement that I find women abroad often tend to be better in many ways that matter to me. This is my own experience, it isn’t fantasy, I lived it. I never said all women in America are bad or all women abroad are good, I never even said any woman is good or bad, I am just talking about the tendency of traits. I don’t want a woman who is a submissive robot and I don’t want a woman who is only with me because she’s dependent on me, I’ve never had such a relationship and am in no way looking for it. This is what I mean, women will non stop talk about men being low quality etc. and how and where to bag better men, yet when a guy does something to improve his situation you call him a misogynist living a fantasy, as though he should just accept bad behavior and have low standards otherwise he doesn’t respect women.

8 hours ago, Cat_eyes said:

Are you sure? 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/divorce-rates-by-country

 

 Every country I recommended except for Ukraine had a lower rate than the USA. Also, just because there is a higher divorce rate doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a problem with women, in many foreign countries a lot of the men are psychologically damaged or alcoholics and are more likely to mistreat women.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Raze

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, MarkKol said:

Naaa, everyone is aware of how boring Scandinavia is. How could It not be? It's like the most well behaved child in the classroom. 

Personally I dig other countries a lot more, can't help it. 

I'd say every Balkan artist is a Croatian artist too, It's all the same shit. Last one I heard about was some mf called "Nucci". Garbage

Never really felt Croatian at heart, I have lots of love for the rest of Europe though.

The more capitalistic and industrial a country is, the less social it becomes. Germans work the least in the European Union, but by 10pm there's not a single soul on the street even in bigger cities like Munich.

I can only imagine how bad Sweden and Norway are. 

We should go to New York City or Toronto! The thrill of flying overseas is pulling at me day by day. 

I can see tho clearly that there are fun social circles out here in Sweden it’s just a matter of getting into them, if one has that desire. It’s not fun “in general” , but there are indeed very interesting people here, and combine that with the openness and progressive mindset here and you have both the fun and depth in a person. Some countries have more of just the fun lol?

”Nucci” I can’t. Gotta give it a listen now that you mention. But yes it’s the same kind of, just these nationalists trying to convince us otherwise ?

I totally relate to not feeling Croatian at heart. And that’s fine honestly everyone doesn’t have to be a raging nationalist 

 

sweden can be pretty dead you are right. People fall into depression here because of it haha

 

oh gosh same. Sometimes I believe there is a reason I was born on July 4th , I’ve always been attracted to America. Just seems to be this collection of everything in one place. I’m almost rotting here in Sweden not gonna lie, that’s why I came to this forum ?

 

 

[Israfil]

6 hours ago, Cat_eyes said:

Are you sure? 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/divorce-rates-by-country

If you actually read your source, you'll find that the US is tied for 10th.

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I was talking in general. This is the mentality of the conversation of these type of men: women in their country are generalized as the ultimate bad (unattractive, too masculine, too independent, canny, materialistic, too this too that) vs women in other countries (usually poor) are generalized as the ultimate good (which by their perception: more attractive, do what the man wants in sex, not very independent, put the men as the center of their lives, submissive). There is no in between.

Usually it comes with toxic, misogynist, entitled view of women.

And no, no one should accept bad beavior, but it's very likely that men receive rejection and disrespectful behavior from women in their home countries because they view and treat women in disrespectful manner themselves. They assume that women in more poor countries would tolerate their shit more and that's usually the case because those women financially dependent on them. But when the money is over, or when those women gain a bit more power, the level of tolerance is dramatically decreasing.

Do you not see the irony in complaining those men paint women with a broad brush and demonize them, when you are doing exactly that to men who go abroad or say they have problems dating? They are all or almost all toxic and entitled and just want women with no “power” otherwise they get rejected etc.? 

I already mentioned this to you in another thread, but you again assume that a man’s success with women is correlated with how good of a person he is/ how well he treats women. In some cases that’s true, being a worse person or treating women poorly makes you lose them or get rejected. But not always, in my experience in some ways I actually have to be more of a dick to attract women in the west, they respond more to signifiers of status and cocky, arrogant, or avoidant behavior. Some of the women who disrespect3d me the most were the women I treated the “best”, and they thought my giving nature with them meant they could use me or walk all over me. Just because a man says he gets rejected or struggles with women does not mean you can automatically assume he’s just toxic and misogynistic and if he was nicer he’d succeed.

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I didn't generalize and demonized all the men in where I live, this is the difference.

There are more reasons for men not being successful with women rather than simply misogynist view of women like trauma, psychological issues, lack of social skills and empathy which are important in building close relationships. Usually it's combination of a few reasons.

Getting married will not solve those issues, no matter with whom, such problems cannot be bypassed.

You are generalizing any man who struggled with dating and demonize any man who goes abroad to date. It’s still a generalization. 

And this is not bypassing anything, it’s solving various problems. Other issues that cause men to struggle are they don’t fit the expected standards of what women in their area want (some of which are impossible or unhealthy and shouldn’t be met) , and there is a lack of quality women around them. Changing locations is not bypassing this, it is solving it. 
This is based on the assumption every guy who goes abroad cannot get results in their home country, not true, I get results just fine, but I get better results elsewhere, why would I ignore this and just accept a worse situation based on some notion of it’s supposed to be that way?

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

You can't put people on the pedestal and expect them to treat you like an equal.

And if your arrogant and cocky behavior is working on women, why still alone?

At the moment I’m dating casually and haven’t met someone I want something long term with. 

The fact that it works at all is the problem and a major reason why I wanted to leave. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Raze

[mr_engineer]

19 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I provided you with the most practical information. 

Just saying 'abuse' and 'exploitation' doesn't count. Those words don't mean anything by themselves, you have to clarify their meaning in a practical context. 

19 hours ago, Lila9 said:

No you don't. You can't prove it.

The proof is that you're using strongly negative buzz-words willy-nilly to get attention. 

19 hours ago, Lila9 said:

It's your highly subjective assumptions and interpretations of my opinions that I don't agree with. Only I can validate if your interpretations match my opinions or not.

Are you just going to say 'you're wrong' or are you actually going to give an explanation as to why I'm wrong? 

19 hours ago, Lila9 said:

It's propagandist logic.

I know, any notion that men have value and that men aren't trash is 'propaganda'. Got it.