Yes, dating for men is better in other countries

[MarkKol]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

this is interesting to me, do you wanna elaborate a little because as a croatian living in sweden ive for a long time judged crotian culture a little for being "bakcwards" and compared it to sweden. But then recently ive gotten more in touch with my roots but not in an egoic way

People who grow up in this country without a single foreign language in their vocabulary are completely screwed in terms of development & education. The kids are all obsessed with video games and shockingly Immature YouTubers

The rest of the world is a much bigger place, therefore It's much more developed. Berlin and Madrid are literally almost bigger than Croatia itself.

Scandinavia's got healthy politics. The rest of Europe, United States and China have capitalism, strong industry, big populations, fucking amazing cities and night life, developed and unique cultures of their own.

Croatia, and realistically speaking... the Balkans have none of that. My love for bigger cities like Barcelona, Madrid, London and Dublin are practically limitless compared to Zagreb.

There's practically no racial, philosophical, ideological or perspectival diversity whatsoever. This is what bothers me most. Art is basically non existent besides music of course, and It's the tasteless kind of music that we have unfortunately. 

The numbers speak for themselves, Croatia has lost 10% of It's population in a decade. Now imagine 50-100 years.

That being said, I've met some great Croatians, just not as often or as many great people from other countries. Maybe It's just me.

Sweden's great, I'd like to visit soon but I postponed my trip because I gained interest in other countries. I swear these Spanish and Brazilian girls are made out of memory foam. so squishy and bouncy. ? 

Edited June 26, 2023 by MarkKol

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I live in Asia and from what I see there are always men who complain about women being too feminist.

These type of men usually have general bitter approach towards women, undercover misogyny, lazy and miser mentality, certain that they are the "shit", don't like to work too hard and also not very socially intelligent in general. 

They pay money to bring women from estearn European countries. Usually, at some point, what happens is that these women start to feel resentment towards these men because they bad with women in general and no money can compensate on that. If a man can't attract and keep woman in his home country, the problem is in him and no matter what women he would try to pursuit from other countries, the problems will repeat themselves.

I know some stories like that who ended bad, in one of them the woman killed her "husband" because he brought her from a poor country and sexually exploded her for years only because she had no power and he could do that. She couldn't bear this anymore.

From my impression, these men want a human sex toy, a slave, a submissive agent and no real relationship with a woman.

The irony is that many Americans come here to look for a bride thinking the same about the women here: that they are more cute and feminine and not very feminist, while some of the local men here think that the women are too feminist here and are looking for women from eastern European countries or other more poor countries like Thailand.

Lol.

It's all a matter of power, they don't like women having equal power or any kind of power. They are attracted to powerless women who have no choice but to be dependent on them.

Again, this is exactly what I mentioned, any time a guy wants to try dating abroad he gets demonized. I never said anything about exploiting or subjugating women, I agree if someone is doing that they are wrong. I even mentioned if a guy can’t get results in his home country not to use it as an escape. Just because I try dating abroad and don’t want to date extremists doesn’t mean I am trying to buy affection or hate women. I see women constantly talking about how they want a traditional man or a man that is wealthy to provide for them and no one ever tells them they are lazy and just want a wallet etc. You can have preferences without being exploitative. I have dated many feminists and women wealthier than me, that by itself wouldn’t be a problem for me if it didn’t tend to come with issues.
 

4 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

because america is such a huge, diverse country, with people ranging in political values and beliefs, it's hard for me to say that america as a whole is not good for dating

that being said cities do lean left so maybe majority of women might not fulfill your needs

that being said, how many girls do you need? 

and there are so many conservative women even in cities (at least in southern cities) and so many ppl that dont care about politics that this doesnt make sense to me

It’s not just about politics, that was just one issue among many. I have found women from the Midwest and smaller towns tend to be better, but in other ways it’s actually much harder in small towns because there are so few single women.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Raze

[Roy]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

any time a guy wants to try dating abroad he gets demonized.

These same guys they hate, treat like shit, and say they would never date, ALSO guilt them that they are doing something bad and shouldn't leave to date abroad. LOL you can't win no matter what you do! These feminists are like video game griefers, if they can't get what they want then YOU can't either. You have to suffer. How DARE you leave us and try to better things for yourself! 

They are mad their wallets are leaving because it takes a quality moderately wealthy man to move abroad. They are projecting their insecurities, because they see men taking responsibility to improve themselves and their environment and know they aren't doing it themselves. Men create solutions for their issues and help each other, women lie and gaslight each other that they are all "queens" and there is never anything wrong with them. It's always something external.

@Raze Don't let them muddy the waters and fuck with your head. Put yourself, your values, principles, and beliefs first. Don't compromise because if you give them an inch, they take a mile.

Our culture is rotting and you are simply pointing it out. You still need a bulletproof vest though, because people always shoot the messenger for bringing truth.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Roy

[Optimized Life]

10 hours ago, something_else said:

Moving to a poorer country purely to get laid is usually a degenerate mindset IMO.

You are reshuffling your entire life to take advantage of the fact that women in poorer countries will see you as a ticket to a less poverty-stricken life. It works, but it's hard to make a high quality relationship out of that dynamic because of the exploitative nature of it.

It's even worse if you're doing it because you can't find women who like you in your home country.

There are exceptions to this for sure. It's not a hard rule. But I would argue that 90%+ of the dudes who travel to poorer countries wanting to get laid more easily are not people that you would want to spend much time around.

Your takes are ALWAYS the dumbest I've noticed this pattern.

Its not just about getting laid though ... It means lower cost of living, sense of adventure, prettier women who aren't fucking obese or there head chain smoking cigs every day. 

It means starting a family, getting away from feminism or masculine women.

Your take is overly simplistic and the judgement futile. Its a completely logical thing to do? lol you want guys to just accept their position and stay in the same place. You judge people because you get results in your country or you like your country, but that's you ... WHY are you judging another guys unique & sovereign erspective or choices, why? Because you're a dumbass as always.

Literally it's a free world imagine calling someone degenerate because they want to live in Columbia or Poland instead of the states lol, "stay where you belong kid" no fuck you dumbass.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Optimized Life

[Schizophonia]

White men who intentionally want to date non-white women are mentally ill.
Many are isolated, desperate, sometimes just plain crazy people, who believe that they cannot be loved by the white women they really esteem, as they have less esteem for non-whites this gives them, paradoxically, a feeling of enough influence to afford a more or less normal relationship, especially since the cultures of Asian and African shitholes condition these women to be diminished.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Schizophonia

[something_else]

3 hours ago, Optimized Life said:

Your takes are ALWAYS the dumbest I've noticed this pattern. ...

Because you're a dumbass as always. ...

no fuck you dumbass. ...

I mean, the fact you're resorting to insulting my character makes me feel like I may have struck a nerve.

Quote

It means lower cost of living, sense of adventure, prettier women who aren't fucking obese or there head chain smoking cigs every day. 

If you are travelling for adventure and you happen to meet a girl, that's one thing. If you the kind of guy who is travelling purely to get laid, that's another. I have met a fair few of those guys in the latter category and they were always insufferable and had an awful view of women.

Idk where you live, but there are plenty of feminine women who aren't obese chain smokers in every Western country in the world I've been to. Why aren't you going after them?

Quote

It means starting a family, getting away from feminism or masculine women.

I mean guys frame it like this in their head but really I'm pretty sure it's just about taking the path of least resistance to getting laid. Especially if they struggle in their home country.

There are no shortage of feminine women in Western countries, they're just pickier and won't be entirely powerless and dependent on you to exist which is what it sounds like you are looking for when you say things like 'getting away from feminism'. See @Lila9's post.

[Karmadhi]

15 minutes ago, something_else said:

I mean guys frame it like this in their head but really I'm pretty sure it's just about taking the path of least resistance to getting laid. Especially if they struggle in their home country.

There are no shortage of feminine women in Western countries, they're just pickier and won't be entirely powerless and dependent on you to exist which is what it sounds like you are looking for when you say things like 'getting away from feminism'. See @Lila9's post.

It boils down to the idea that people do not want to do an insane amount of work for something which is considered a basic need.

Basics needs now are so easy to get that people become entitled to them.

Also it is getting harder for guys to get laid so when you have this basic need getting harder while the rest of basic needs are getting easier (food, shelter, water etc) the entitlement intensifies. 

In the past all basics needs were relatively hard while today there is a huge disbalance in difficulty between getting laid and the rest of the basics needs.

Because unlike other basics needs getting laid is a zero sum game, the rest are non-zero sum games.

I am all for improving yourself but when I hear Leo say you need to do 5000 approaches or otherwise your dating life will suck is extremely demotivating to most guys.

Imagine if I told you unless you went to the gym 6 times a week and had perfect diet for 15 years your body will look like shit. 

Reality is not like this.

If you want the dating life of a king then yeah you need to do 5000 approaches (or be famous) and if you want to look like a bodybuilder than yeah you need the 15 years of non stop training, however most people do not care about such insane results.

They are happy with decent results.

Wanting a non obese feminine girl is the equivalent of wanting not to be fat.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Karmadhi

[mr_engineer]

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

The only thing that matters is whether those men hurt and exploit other women from less fortunate places or not

To you, this is the only thing that matters. The reason for that is that you're operating from a place of fear. And that's not feminine. Cuz feminine women operate from a place of love, which is the opposite of fear. 

This is not 'female solidarity'. There are women out there who don't hate men, who aren't all anti-male. We're talking about dating those women. Your 'female tribalism' is not welcome as it's an obstacle. For men and for women who love men. 

If you want to be anti-male, your opinion on how men date isn't based on reality. You deserve no credibility on this topic. 

And, one final point - there are other people in this world who have different agendas, different needs. And, if you're not willing to acknowledge their importance, you are being narcissistic. Other people also exist. The world does not revolve around your needs, your wants. Grow up. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Raze]

4 hours ago, something_else said:

I mean guys frame it like this in their head but really I'm pretty sure it's just about taking the path of least resistance to getting laid. Especially if they struggle in their home country.

There are no shortage of feminine women in Western countries, they're just pickier and won't be entirely powerless and dependent on you to exist which is what it sounds like you are looking for when you say things like 'getting away from feminism'. See @Lila9's post.

What is wrong with taking the path of least resistance? It’s only natural to pursue your best option.

There absolutely is a shortage, especially if you have higher standards. It isn’t just me saying this, almost every guy I have seen who has tried dating abroad has said a similar thing, including every dating coach I listen too, some of whom have dated thousands and slept with hundreds of women in their home country, still choose to remain in the west and have a long term relationship with a western woman, they. STILL say this is also their experience, it isn’t just desperation.

Again, what makes you think a woman in a foreign country is “powerless and dependent on you”, that isn’t the case at all unless you are targeting such girls, but plenty of people do that in western countries as well.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Raze

[Raze]

Quote

Not all people are the same, even within the same country, there are many types of people. If you don't like feminists, you can always find non feminists, they are actually more common than feminists.

If women in western countries seek traditional men (I don't agree but let's assume it's the case) and it's bothering you, what makes you think that women in more stage blue patriarchal countries seek a progressive man? 

 

1. I didn’t say the problem is feminists. Some feminists are fine, a lot of non feminists also have problems. I am just saying the general trend seems to be feminist influence makes a lot of women in western countries less desirable to date. That doesn’t mean they are all like that or that they don’t have other good qualities.

2. I didn’t say there is anything wrong with women seeking traditional men. My point is there is a double standard where whenever women like something or do something to improve their dating life it’s seen as ok or good, but when a man does, sometimes even the same thing, everyone she’s he’s a predator or loser. Ex. A woman says she wants to meet a wealthy man who can provide for her, no one says that’s a problem, but a man says he wants a much less wealthy woman he can provide for, basically just agreeing with her, everyone says he’s looking for someone to exploit with a power imbalance.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Raze

[something_else]

Quote

It boils down to the idea that people do not want to do an insane amount of work for something which is considered a basic need.

I don't think it has to be an insane amount of work but yea, I get your point.

22 minutes ago, Raze said:

What is wrong with taking the path of least resistance? It’s only natural to pursue your best option.

I mean the path of least resistance to getting $100 right now is to exploit your friends or families trust in you, or to rob a local store.

Path of least resistance is not always a good thing. In this case taking the path of least resistance involves exploiting women in poorer countries.

Quote

There absolutely is a shortage

I probably don't have enough info to argue on this point but I'll do my best. I can say that in my experience I haven't had any trouble meeting feminine women in the UK and the countries in Europe I've travelled to.

I think dating coaches and pickup people often have quite a warped idea of what femininity really is. They view it as more akin to being conservative and submissive which is not really true, or at least not the full picture. There is definitely a shortage of submissive women in Western countries but it's tough to argue that's a bad thing without looking like a knob.

Quote

Again, what makes you think a woman in a foreign country is “powerless and dependent on you”, that isn’t the case at all unless you are targeting such girls, but plenty of people do that in western countries as well.

Specifically poor foreign countries. No one has an issue with you going to Sweden to find a hot Swedish girl. The issue is when you are targeting countries like the Philippines as the reason dating is so much easier there for you is because you have the power of being perceived as a rich westerner.

This is a severe power dynamic.

Lets say you end up dating a girl in a poorer country, her mindset could easily become "I can't lose this man because he has given me a much wealthier life than I otherwise would be able to have" and that is very exploitative, as she then becomes powerless and dependent on you to maintain her life.

Just by going to a poor country with the intent to date you are planning on exploiting this dynamic.

Quote

I am just saying the general trend seems to be feminist influence makes a lot of women in western countries less desirable to date

In what ways?

41 minutes ago, Raze said:

My point is there is a double standard where whenever women like something or do something to improve their dating life it’s seen as ok or good, but when a man does, sometimes even the same thing, everyone she’s he’s a predator or loser

I mean I see plenty of dislike towards sugar baby women, or woman who are just looking for money. We have the derogatory term gold digger just for it. Most people realise it's very superficial.

And no one is calling men losers for getting jacked, building a thriving social life, having cool hobbies, or earning lots of money through a business.

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, something_else said:

I mean the path of least resistance to getting $100 right now is to exploit your friends or families trust in you, or to rob a local store.

Path of least resistance is not always a good thing. In this case taking the path of least resistance involves exploiting women in poorer countries.

The issue in this scenario is that the behavior is unethical, even if it was the path of most resistance but the outcome is unethical that would be just as bad.

Again, I never said anything about exploiting women, dating women abroad is not by default exploitative, it’s exploitative if you do something exploitative. That would be wrong regardless of where you do it, guys can exploit women in western countries too.

5 minutes ago, something_else said:

I probably don't have enough info to argue on this point but I'll do my best. I can say that in my experience I haven't had any trouble meeting feminine women in the UK and the countries in Europe I've travelled to.

I think dating coaches and pickup people often have quite a warped idea of what femininity really is. They view it as more akin to being conservative and submissive which is not really true, or at least not the full picture. There is definitely a shortage of submissive women in Western countries but it's tough to argue that's a bad thing without looking like a knob.

Or maybe you have a warped view of femininity and don’t know what it actually looks like. Femininity isn’t just a girl being a girl.

In western countries it’s actually very common for women themselves to be looking up resources on how to be more feminine. There are now tons of “femininity influencers”. I don’t know if what they teach is correct or useful, but the fact there is even a market for it indicates that women themselves feel they are too masculine.

8 minutes ago, something_else said:

Specifically poor foreign countries. No one has an issue with you going to Sweden to find a hot Swedish girl. The issue is when you are targeting countries like the Philippines as the reason dating is so much easier there for you is because you have the power of being perceived as a rich westerner.

This is a severe power dynamic.

Lets say you end up dating a girl in a poorer country, her mindset could easily become "I can't lose this man because he has given me a much wealthier life than I otherwise would be able to have" and that is very exploitative, as she then becomes powerless and dependent on you to maintain her life.

Just by going to a poor country with the intent to date you are planning on exploiting this dynamic.

For the third time, I am not leading with money. This cannot happen because I am not bribing women or paying for their stuff in major ways. I will only financially help out if we know each other well and even then it’s nothing crazy. 
You might say, just by the fact I am wealthier and foreign she might feel “hooked” and doesn’t want to lose me on the possibility of future resources. This is a pretty ridiculous standard to call exploitation though. All women look for the best option they can get, many women outright will not date a guy who isn’t significantly wealthier than them. By this logic the more someone becomes a desirable mate the more they exploit women because the less they would want to lose them and the more they’d tolerate. A wealthy man could not ethically date anyone who earns less than them by this standard because they might not want to lose a potential resource. 
Everyone is “leveraging power” when dating. Many beautiful women say they only date men below their league because the men will tolerate more and give them more stuff because they don’t want to lose the hottest woman they can get.

 

[Raze]

25 minutes ago, something_else said:

In what ways?

I don’t see the point in elaborating more on this. You’re clearly convinced the mass of guys saying this are all just making excuses and will say any example I give is an exaggeration.

26 minutes ago, something_else said:

I mean I see plenty of dislike towards sugar baby women, or woman who are just looking for money. We have the derogatory term gold digger just for it. Most people realise it's very superficial.

And no one is calling men losers for getting jacked, building a thriving social life, having cool hobbies, or earning lots of money through a business.

The gold diggers are an extreme example. It’s still standard and expected for women to say things like they don’t want broke men, they want a masculine man who leads. There was a viral article recently about women complaining all the men they meet aren’t relationship material because they are broke.

The guy examples you give are about improving oneself, not standards for relationships. Even then those guys are called gym bros, players, and patriarchal exploiters of the working class.

[Karmadhi]

35 minutes ago, something_else said:

I think dating coaches and pickup people often have quite a warped idea of what femininity really is

Most guys do not like to clean or cook. They prefer to outsource that to women and they pay for their meals and drinks, especially if they have money.

In general roles are more divided in conservative societies and men prefer that because they get a better deal out of it.

In feminist societies women get the better deal.

Just selfishness 101.

[something_else]

Quote

 

For the third time, I am not leading with money. This cannot happen because I am not bribing women or paying for their stuff in major ways. I will only financially help out if we know each other well and even then it's nothing crazy.

You might say, just by the fact I am wealthier and foreign she might feel hooked and doesn't want to lose me on the possibility of future resources. This is a pretty ridiculous standard to call exploitation though.

 

 

It doesn't matter if you explicitly lead with money or not. Your implicit difference in wealth is a foundational brick upon which the relationship would be built. If this were not the case it would not be so much easier for Western men to date women in poor countries.

It's not crazy to call that exploitation. You know this dynamic exists and you go to a poor country to exploit it for easier sex. It is the definition of exploitation.

 

Quote

All women look for the best option they can get, many women outright will not date a guy who isn't significantly wealthier than them. By this logic the more someone becomes a desirable mate the more they exploit women because the less they would want to lose them and the more they’d tolerate. A wealthy man could not ethically date anyone who earns less than them by this standard because they might not want to lose a potential resource.

 

Agreed. It's just significantly worse when you're doing this kind of stuff in a poor country because the power/wealth difference is potentially so much more extreme.

Relationships based on monetary exchange or power dynamics are unhealthy no matter where they happen. You should not be looking for such a relationship if you want it to be long and healthy.

 

Quote

Everyone is 'leveraging power' when dating.

 

Do you think the people who are focusing on leveraging power over someone while dating are having happy healthy relationships?

 

Quote

It's still standard and expected for women to say things like they don't want broke men, they want a masculine man who leads. There was a viral article recently about women complaining all the men they meet aren't relationship material because they are broke.

 

And it's still standard for men to say they want a pretty woman with a feminine personality who supports them emotionally.

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

How do you know from which place I operate lol?

Because you said that 'the only thing that matters is whether men hurt and exploit women or not'. That's what you're reducing men down to - predators and abusers. That's operating from a place of fear. 

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

Do you want to teach me how feminine women operate? 

If you learn, sure! 

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

What is feminine about loving people that hate you? 

To love something is to recognize yourself in it. So, if you recognize yourself in people that hate you, you will stop getting triggered by it. 

Love brings people closer, fear separates people further apart. Feminine women operate from this understanding. 

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

There is such a thing as having female solidarity, not hating men and at the same time call the bs of some men. I don't see any problem with that and I don't know why in your perception female solidarity equals to hating men.

It creates a gender-ego and it makes your gender-identity more important than being a loving human being. You're in battle against the opposite sex. 

You want to 'call BS' on men's preferences. Why are you making preferences a moral right/wrong? Why are you making it a part of your anti-male agenda?! They're not doing anything to you, they're minding their own business. Let them be! 

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

Wanting to protect women from some men, especially if they are young (like children and teens) or have low social status from selfish men who wouldn't think twice before exploding them, is not an evidence for men hatred.

The whole 'exploitation' thing is a big assumption. If you ask most of those women whether they value their men or not, they'll say 'yes'. If you deny that, saying that 'they were pressured into saying that', I don't know what to tell you. That's classic confirmation-bias for your anti-male agenda. \

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

If I was anti men I wasn't here.

I'm a straight woman who is attracted to men and adore men, I see and appriciate the good qualities that exist in men.

And I'm also a feminist. I'm sorry that I'm not fitting into your box and propaganda because you love to think that feminism equals to men hatred but it's very far from reality. 

Where did I use the word 'feminism' on this topic?! I didn't say anything about feminism. That's not the point. I said that this attitude towards 'passport-bros' is man-hating. You're hating on men for having preferences. 

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

However, it doesn't mean that I would happily support abusive, misogynist, immature, stupid, selfish, narcissistic, overly patriarchal and repressing behavior from men, not when it comes to me and not when it comes to other women (and even other men).

Nobody asked you whether you do. Cuz you're not a part of this conversation. It's those men and their happy wives. If they're happily married, why do you want to come in and regulate their marriage for them?! 

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

The world doesn't revolve around my needs, you are not the first one to tell me that, that's clear for me since age 0, because I'm a woman and I know that I'm not supposed to have any needs (or opinions) because it's not important, only the needs and opinions of men are important, no? 

You use a lot of strongly negative language towards men who are minding their own business and not giving a damn. So, I thought it was important to remind you that you're not entitled to them choosing you over those women. 

And by the way, men do not get told that 'our needs and opinions are very important'. It takes a lot of work for us to earn that. I'd rather you focus on doing that than dissing on happy couples. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Raze]

3 hours ago, something_else said:

It doesn't matter if you explicitly lead with money or not. Your implicit difference in wealth is a foundational brick upon which the relationship would be built. If this were not the case it would not be so much easier for Western men to date women in poor countries.

It's not crazy to call that exploitation. You know this dynamic exists and you go to a poor country to exploit it for easier sex. It is the definition of exploitation.

Except by your standards almost any situation where the partnership isn’t equal would be exploitation. Dating someone who earns less than you? Exploitation, they might tolerate bad behavior because they want your money. Dating someone who lacks options? Exploitation, they might tolerate bad behavior because they’re afraid youll leave and they won’t find someone new. Dating someone uglier than you? Exploitation, they might tolerate bad behavior because they don’t want to lose the hottest person they think they can get.

I’ve also dated women poorer than me in the west or women whose lives improved because of what I brought to the table. Was I exploiting them because they might not want to lose me? Do I have to be a worse partner to not exploit them? 

3 hours ago, something_else said:

Agreed. It's just significantly worse when you're doing this kind of stuff in a poor country because the power/wealth difference is potentially so much more extreme.

Relationships based on monetary exchange or power dynamics are unhealthy no matter where they happen. You should not be looking for such a relationship if you want it to be long and healthy.

 

Are you serious? You really think dating someone who is less attractive then you or less wealthy than you is automatically exploitation? You’re basically defining exploitation so loosely as to mean someone liking the deal they get with you and not wanting to lose you. That is ALL relationships, everyone is trying to be a better deal to get better results. People are also looking for better deals, is a guy who chases women hotter than him or a girl who chases guys wealthier than her choosing to make themselves get exploited? 
Also I don’t get why you are assuming there is such a huge gap, I am not that wealthy and I’m not dating extremely poor girls. If they really just wanted money they could probably find someone much wealthier than me to go for.

3 hours ago, something_else said:

Do you think the people who are focusing on leveraging power over someone while dating are having happy healthy relationships?

In this context we are talking about leveraging power so loosely as to mean doing something to be more desirable and that makes your partner not want to lose you. Literally everything someone would do to be more attractive would count as this. You go to the gym and get a fit body? Leveraging power, now your partner is less likely to leave because they like your increased attractiveness. You have a great fun personality? Leveraging power, now your partner is less likely to leave because they like the fun and connection you being. You get a raise or start a successful business? Leveraging power, now your partner is less likely to leave because they like the increased lifestyle being with you provides.

3 hours ago, something_else said:

And it's still standard for men to say they want a pretty woman with a feminine personality who supports them emotionally.

Yes, but whenever he wants to do something to increase his odds he’s demonized as shallow, manipulative, or predatory.

 

[something_else]

@Raze 

1 hour ago, Raze said:

You really think dating someone who is less attractive then you or less wealthy than you is automatically exploitation?

No, I didn't say that. I said that extreme power imbalance in a relationship is usually a bad thing, and that explicitly looking for relationships where you know there is a power imbalance (for example going to poor countries to find poor women as a rich westerner) is exploitative and creepy in nature. 

That's not the same as a rich westerner and a poor westerner who happen to meet and end up dating. In this scenario he didn't specifically hunt her down and choose her because she was poorer than him.

My point is not that relationships between westerner men and women from poor countries are inherently bad, which is what I think you think I am saying. I think they can be totally ethical and healthy if they arise more naturally.

My point is that the Western men who intentionally go looking for poorer women to date in 3rd world countries are exploiting the fact that women in poorer countries will do almost anything to improve their situation in life. What I am saying is creepy and exploitative is the intent from the rich western man to find a poorer women to date.

You have little ground to stand on in an argument against this not being exploitative when you make comments like this in your original post:

Quote

Meanwhile in many foreign countries a lot of the male population is so poor they work all day and have no time to date, joined a gang or something, or got murdered from crime or in some war. 

 

[mr_engineer]

22 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Unfortunately that's the case from my personal observations. From my conversations with women who came with such a deal to my country, they are not happy with the men who brought them and usually it ends with a lot of drama, if not after a few months then after a few years, when the women get involved more in the new culture of the more developed country and realizes that she doesn't have to tolerate a man who isn't sexually attractive to her or abusive for the sake of survival anymore. There might be exceptions though but I personally have never seen happy endings in such deals.

Then you need more observations. 

22 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I changed my mind.

Your loss. 

22 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Yeah but you preach about something that I doubt you yourself do and really believe in.

I would say that being honest with someone and tell them when they are wrong is a form of love too. Disagreement is not hate.

Do you love women only when they agree with you?

In theory, there's nothing wrong with disagreement. In practice, though, what disagreement practically means, is war. 

If I say 'This is my phone' and you disagree with me and you say 'No, this is my phone!', that's not very loving. Replace the word 'phone' with 'rights' and we get our discussion. You're basically saying that 'men shouldn't have the right to go and marry someone from a certain country with a certain background, that should be considered abuse. And that I, as a random woman, should have the right to 'defend her' from who I consider 'abusive'.' And what I'm telling you is, that that's not, in fact, your right, that they have the right to do what they're doing. Which is, creating the relationship that they want. 

36 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I speak my truth and not battle with anyone. My conclusions are based on real life observations and I share what I know from my perspective.

Take it or leave it.

I choose to leave it. I'd rather not entertain a man-hating ideology. 

37 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I don't mind them having preferences as long as they don't hurt and exploit others which many times is the case.

And many times, it's not the case.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

38 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

How do you know? did you ask them?

I have female friends, women of color, who love white men. It's too obvious. 

39 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

No I'm not. I don't care about their preferences as long as they don't cause suffering.

Then stop with this narrative. If you're talking about individuals and not the group, don't hurt the image of the group and deal with the individuals on their own. 

42 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I have the right to share my perspective, if I break some forum rules by that, which I hardly believe that I did, the mods are the ones to decide, not you.

My point was that there is no point to coming here and mentally masturbating about something that you can't directly affect. Nobody who actually matters, no actual stakeholder cares about your opinion on this issue. 

44 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

If they are happily married I'm happy.

But usually it's not the case.

Yeah, dysfunctionality is the norm in those relationships. Now, you're 'normalizing' it, you're saying that it's the norm. And you're shaming the majority of those men and calling them toxic. That's the man-hate we're talking about, right here. 

Tell me one thing - why would the concerned women sign up for it if it were so dysfunctional?! Do keep in mind that the communities in third-world countries are much more tight-knit, that most of the world has PTSD from colonialism and they are weary of white men coming and taking their women. And that the vetting-process can be much harder in third-world countries because the family-unit makes or breaks these societies. 

46 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Yeah because everything women do is because they are jealous and in competition with other women on the most low quality men out there. Makes sense.

Why are you wasting your time talking about these 'low-quality men', then?! Get a life! 

47 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I'm sorry to shatter your bubble but...

You can't buy geniune love with money.

I talked about 'importance' or 'significance'. And that has nothing to do with money. And, like money, even significance has to be earned. And, 'love' and 'significance' are different things. You can buy neither. But, love doesn't take work, significance does. 

[Raze]

5 hours ago, something_else said:

@Raze 

No, I didn't say that. I said that extreme power imbalance in a relationship is usually a bad thing, and that explicitly looking for relationships where you know there is a power imbalance (for example going to poor countries to find poor women as a rich westerner) is exploitative and creepy in nature. 

That's not the same as a rich westerner and a poor westerner who happen to meet and end up dating. In this scenario he didn't specifically hunt her down and choose her because she was poorer than him.

My point is not that relationships between westerner men and women from poor countries are inherently bad, which is what I think you think I am saying. I think they can be totally ethical and healthy if they arise more naturally.

My point is that the Western men who intentionally go looking for poorer women to date in 3rd world countries are exploiting the fact that women in poorer countries will do almost anything to improve their situation in life. What I am saying is creepy and exploitative is the intent from the rich western man to find a poorer women to date.

You have little ground to stand on in an argument against this not being exploitative when you make comments like this in your original post:

 

Well, that’s not what I’m suggesting or doing. I’m not specifically going after poorer women and I’m not rich. And again, I’m not leading with money at all. You keep saying it doesn’t matter, but it really makes no sense to suggest I’m buying women if I’m not really giving her any money at all. If a woman is with me because she thinks I will give her resources and a chance in a different country, she really has no idea what she’s doing, because I’m not doing that and never suggest or even imply it to her. 

How is that comment exploitative? I’m just pointing out a fact about why there is less competition, I made no claim about it being a good thing or bad thing.
 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Raze