Leo, why do you think you are the most awakened being on this planet?

[Ajax]

@Hojo Ok, I think we are on the same page, thanks for the help.

LOVE

[Hojo]

@Ajax like you are perceiving all dimensions right now you are just calling them something else.

[Ajax]

@Hojo So if you wanted to measure a person's state of perception and quantify it for the purpose of assigning a rating to evaluate a person's quality of perception... How would a person go about doing that?

 

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Moksha said:

good litmus test is your baseline rate of suffering. If you only escape suffering by engaging in mind games, and find yourself constantly returning to suffering, you aren't awake yet.

Yeah, I would even say that the only way to escape suffering, even for brief moments, is to realize the absolute, open yourself completely to now. mind games will never eliminate suffering. It may be low intensity, but it's always there. humans live in constant suffering, always needing something, moving towards the future

[Hojo]

@Ajax i don't know its infinite and changes you can perceive one more than the other at certain times i think. You aren't more in one than the other i don't think. You would have to ask them and somehow have the understand it which is beyond us at this point. It would require mass spirituality like they used to have all the information will have been destroyed in our time.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Hojo

[Ajax]

@Hojo  Thank You, that has been most helpful.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ajax

[Moksha]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, I would even say that the only way to escape suffering, even for brief moments, is to realize the absolute, open yourself completely to now. mind games will never eliminate suffering. It may be low intensity, but it's always there. humans live in constant suffering, always needing something, moving towards the future

Exactly. The deeper you develop the capacity to remain clear, without losing yourself in imagination, the less you suffer. It's impossible to suffer when you are in the flow state.

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Exactly. The deeper you develop the capacity to remain clear, without losing yourself in imagination, the less you suffer. It's impossible to suffer when you are in the flow state.

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 

Yes, What is necessary to understand is: why am I not in the open state all the time? What mental activity prevents this? Why am I doing that activity, what is the origin of this need?

[toasty7718]

I think Leo is skilled with the cognitive and mental aspects of nonduality, but he doesn’t seem to have anything to say about actual embodiment. His content is so cognitive-centric that it can spin some people out.

[hoodrow trillson]

When I first signed up on here, I was like "I wonder when people are going to start saying they're better or more 'awake' than the dude who runs this place" LOL, almost without fail.

[Moksha]

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, What is necessary to understand is: why am I not in the open state all the time? What mental activity prevents this? Why am I doing that activity, what is the origin of this need?

You aren't in the open state all the time because you still listen to the demands and distractions of your mind. The only truth you need to understand about the mind is that identifying with it always leads to suffering. If you deeply realize this, you will no longer listen to the mind, regardless of its lies.

[Boost]

@Ajax I also don't know too much about it, so you can also help me seeing my biases, but it is more beneficial to consider dimension to be more basic thing than science. Science is just a method, Leo talk a lot about how limited it is. So it seem to me that science is a tool to explain or create a desired change in 1D, 2D or 3D. Scientist say that's not even possible to be other method han science, but from what. Scientist say that we created science to know the truth, so it is truth, but they don't want to admit that biased people created science, so their limited truth is the truth of science. Why I say these things with difficult philosophical framing, because science want me to do it, but at the same time science say that philosophy is not serious, in other words scientists or you want me to beat science with scientific method while just you choosed science. There are other tools which called spiritual methods in summary (everything which is outside science is casted into here), and some of these help us. Spiritual methods can be important or true if they help you in whatever you want. You have to just acknowledge that it is possible that there are other methods than science, and then you are not blocked into science. A scientific person will give up his fanatic belief that only science is Truth by coming back to what the person want more deeply, because I am my beliefs and my will is what my beliefs are, and if I realise a deeper belief, then weaker, this why somebody have to understand (under-stand, under because I'm my deeper beliefs observing my more superficial beliefs) a low level belief and only then you can release it. For example if a fanatic with science have cancer realize that he will die, he try a spiritual thing, he tries to release his low level beliefs, fears, fustrations, which cause him cancer according to basic common sense, for example suppression of love can cause heart discease, but to realize what the basic common sense dictate (fustrations cause ilness) not the scientific belief (science don't proved ilnesses by fustration), he have to realize that he aways did science to improve his life, and not because it is the truth, but now his life is seriously risked, after he know this, he can just choose which is best for improving his life and lose his belief that he can do it only by being attached to science.

[Adam M]

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

I was making a general observation. I have no idea how egotistical you are.

Exploring experience is only egotistical to the extent that you identify with the experience, and attach expectations to it.

My point is that imagination is the opposite of enlightenment. Experiencing the cosmos as an imaginary human, imagining that it is an alien, only buries you deeper in the dream.

You are only awake to the degree that you directly realize who you are, beyond every form.

A good litmus test is your baseline rate of suffering. If you only escape suffering by engaging in mind games, and find yourself constantly returning to suffering, you aren't awake yet.

Yes, I agree.

Every form can be transcended simply by asking oneself “who is this happening to?”

And realizing that I am.

Although, there must be some benefit to what you call “suffering/clinging.”

Otherwise it wouldn’t exist.

Is it possible to “always be awake at all times?” 

And to never lose yourself in a dream?

God has already done that. You have already done that.

Yet, you’ve purposely thrust yourself into a human body with the intention of experiencing all sorts of limitations and attachments.

Doesn’t attachment create non-attachment?

And non-attachment create attachment?

The ultimate non-attachment (you/God/Awareness)…

Literally created all sorts of attachments…

Why?

Does God have desire and want?

Does God desire/want to be less-than-God?

Of course.

Otherwise there would be no Beauty, no Love, and no Goodness.

Therefore, it’s inherent in the Nature of Awareness to create infinite suffering states.

BECAUSE I LOVE MYSELF SO MUCH that I have no particular bias against suffering or non-suffering.

And that lack of bias… is Me. Is God.

Yet, here I am… existing in a particular form.

And the best I can do is live a wholesome life… doing my best to raise my awareness… appreciate what is right in front of me and live in more and more alignment with what my Heart is calling me towards.

Always doing my best to bring Love and Awareness into everything I do…

and helping others do the same.

And I also I want to learn more about the ancient dragons of Atlantis ? because I have this awesome body and I want to enjoy it while it lasts.

I have no qualms with attachment. When I notice myself doing it… I see how it creates unnecessary suffering… and I let it go.

In fact, I think attachment is the best thing ever… because without it, I wouldn’t know what it means to be free.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Adam M

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You aren't in the open state all the time because you still listen to the demands and distractions of your mind. The only truth you need to understand about the mind is that identifying with it always leads to suffering. If you deeply realize this, you will no longer listen to the mind, regardless of its lies.

You are right, the open state is life, truth. but if you are not in it, it is not just because you listen to the mind, it is because of something deeper: fear. we humans are afraid of being. we are afraid of yin, we only want yang. We don't open up to the now because we don't want to fully accept it, and this is where we have to understand. what we are, what is reality, and accept it and open ourself to it, give ourself and let go of greed. most people prefer to endure a tolerable level of suffering but still hold on to the mind

[Moksha]

@Adam M

If you can directly realize who you are through self-inquiry, it's the purest path. Following it leads beyond "I AM" to simply "AM".

Suffering is the result of seeking fulfillment through false identification. Its purpose is to goad you into awakening to your true nature.

Enlightenment is possible, but it's also rare. Most people are born and die without becoming enlightened. They may have genuine realizations, but the conditioning of their mind doesn't allow them to remain awake.

Enlightenment is only an imaginary portal to absolute being. It isn't real. Within the dream, the absolute realizes itself, and continues lucidly to experience its imagination.

You're right that the absolute creates attachments within its dream, only to dissolve them, ad infinitum. It's god doing god.

The point of spirituality is to arrive at the peak state of the dream, where you are able to experience the phenomenal glory of your imagination, free from the suffering of misidentification.

[Adam M]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

My point is that imagination is the opposite of enlightenment. Experiencing the cosmos as an imaginary human, imagining that it is an alien, only buries you deeper in the dream.

I have this weird feeling that you don’t really know what you’re talking about…

and I can’t quite shake it off.

”Imagination is the opposite of enlightenment?”

No, imagination is infinite. It doesn’t have any opposites.

AWAKENING (as Leo calls it) transcends AND INCLUDES mind-identification.

It can USE mind-identification to shape and sculpt your identity to create the specific reality that you WANT.

You’re God! 

What kind of reality do you want to create for yourself?

Does your ideal girlfriend have big boobs or little boobs? 

None of this “well I’m not identified with forms so I have no preference.”

Bullshit.

You have a body… so obviously you (as God) had some kind of preference to exist as a human (rather than an ant).

“Experiencing yourself as Alien Consciousness just buries you deeper in the dream.”

Ummmmmm. No. Alien Consciousness includes and transcends your tiny idea of  enlightenment within it. 

You think that “just stop identifying with the mind” is enlightenment?

That’s just dipping your toe in the shallow end.

What happens after that?

When you go full circle… here you are. Identifying with things… and realizing that you get to choose how you want to sculpt reality with your imagination.

YOU BECOME SO NON-IDENTIFIED THAT YOU ACTUALLY BEGIN TO RE-IDENTIFY AGAIN (but this time, on purpose).

You can use identification to skillfully craft reality to structure it in such a way that practically helps all beings achieve Awakening.

Just telling people to “stop identifying with the mind…”

Isn’t going to Awaken humanity… if it was… then everyone would have awoken after “I Am That” was published.

Awakening is infinite.

You have no idea what it is. (I can tell)

Edited July 3, 2023 by Adam M

[Moksha]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are right, the open state is life, truth. but if you are not in it, it is not just because you listen to the mind, it is because of something deeper: fear. we humans are afraid of being. we are afraid of yin, we only want yang. We don't open up to the now because we don't want to fully accept it, and this is where we have to understand. what we are, what is reality, and accept it and open ourself to it, give ourself and let go of greed. most people prefer to endure a tolerable level of suffering but still hold on to the mind

The lies of the mind are crafted from fears and desires. We falsely believe that we can be harmed, or that bliss is around the next bend.

All you need to remain open is to deeply realize that these are only lies. Your true nature is beyond threat, and is the essence of bliss. With practice, you will let go of these lies more easily, until your inner trust becomes so absolute that nothing has the power to distract.

[Moksha]

4 minutes ago, Adam M said:

You have no idea what it is. (I can tell).

I see.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

All you need to remain open is to deeply realize that these are only lies. Your true nature is beyond threat, and is the essence of bliss

Yeah "only" you need to realize that. that you are infinite , hence the matter of psychedelics.

[Moksha]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah "only" you need to realize that. that you are infinite , hence the matter of psychedelics.

Hence the matter of suffering.