Spiritual path and Orange craving

[RedLine]

I am oriented towards spiritual pursuit but my ego is goal oriented.

This, lets say, spiral dynamics orange cravings can be summarize in 1) money 2) status 3) woman abundance 4)aesthtetics and muscular body 5) be recognized by society for something I have produced/I am

I try to combine this two areas. I do holotropic breathing, I mediate 2 or 3 hours per day, and, in the other side, I work to build my business, go to the gym to get muscle, build my social media to pick up girls, etc.

The problem is it does not seems to work since my Orange craving seems to obscure the spiritual path and when I am meditating my mind just want start thinking about how can I get more chicks the next day, work more efficitely in my business, etc. Recently, I am very driven by this thing since they are working good and my meditation is worst every year since I don´t really care about it too much anymore, the other things are more appealing. However, deep in my heart, I know the most important thing to do is spirituality.

So the two solutions I see are 1)Quit spirituallity completly for a couple of years until I complete everything and I burn all the karma and that ego thrist is not appeal anymore -this is an option that Leo recommended- or 2) Really fight and reject this desire and extra focus on spirituallity. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by RedLine

[Spiritual Warrior]

I am in a similar boat my friend, although not as far along as you I don't think (I still have some stage blue that Id like to integrate.) I think option one is a great idea. Just focus on the things that you enjoy. Pursue the girls, pursue the money and the fame, pursue the luxury, all of the material desires. Like you said, eventually you will burn through that karma and you'll move onto the next thing. 

It's awesome that you meditate for so long every day, truly inspiring. But if you're not that into it or you find that you're mind is always off on other things, you may not be getting the spiritual gains that you would want. And you could be using that time to work on social skills or your business. Just a thought. 

I'm actually really glad you posted this because it gave me some clarity as to what I should be doing in my life. I've read a few books on Enlightenment and I'm really into it, I think it's amazing stuff and I know that I'll get there one day, but the reality is that I want the same things as you, I want the women, I want the money, I want the nice house, I want to be more charismatic, I want all of that. And I know that I've got to fulfill those desires first. We can't just skip over that and become enlightened. We've got to fulfill these cravings or they'll continue to nag us until they're addressed. I'm still going to research spirituality and contemplate because I find it so damn interesting, but the main priority is maximizing stage orange and working out some stage blue, mainly self discipline and hard work.

I'm also curious if you have integrated stage green in your life yet? 

[Salvijus]

Bro, your desires are not an obstacle to god, they are your bread crumbs to god. Each desire if you look carefully at them has a deeper meaning than you ascribe to. Your desire for wealth is a desire for expansion and freedom. Your desire for relationship is a desire for love and the joy of intimacy and union. Your desire for status and recognition is your desire for god's greatness radiating through to touch other people, to become devine and radiant and beautiful like god is, like your true Self is. 

There is no desire that doesn't lead to god. However, you can waste lots of time not being truly concious of what is the core of your desire and end up trying to fulfill your desires in unconscious ways and ways that lead you nowhere except dissapointment. But if you embrace your desires and look deeply into them, what are they truly about, you'll gain much more clarity and direction in life and everything will arrange itself accordingly in an effortless way and there'll be no more conflict.

"Just follow your heart, the key to every descision, it's as simple as that"

Edited June 25, 2023 by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

If you are in any way attached to the idea/experience of increased awareness due to meditation, that in itself is the very thing that stands in the way for even more awareness and spirituality. So letting go of it, perhaps even quitting does not mean the end of your spiritual path, but could actually be a key step in the process.

Take it from someone who meditated maybe two years, only for my version of spiritually to one night after a 3 hour mediation, reveal itself as a layer of my mind (ironic huh?) I haven’t revisited the practice since. But went more in that practical orange direction as you describe, working on different facets on my human self.

My “default state” now is wayyyyy more meditative than when I used to meditate back then. My life is way more mystical than before. My past self couldn’t even IMAGINE my default now. In a way I do meditations spontaneously such as when I dance I get really into it, sometimes when resting or sitting on the train etc, or I’ll have deep contemplations running effortlessly in my mind as I’m going through my day. To suggest the end of a meditation practice to be the end of spiritual growth is a very narrow view of spirituality to me. But I can totally see where that sense could be coming from

You are obviously a very developed, disciplined above average guy, multi faceted and complex. The fact that you are able to recognize this battle between those desires shows to me you are very aware and in touch with yourself and your own mind. Don’t limit yourself to ideas you hear from people, in my opinion. Even ideas from people who themselves are very advanced. Doesn’t mean that has to be your path because it was their path and the way it’s suggested, the way people teach.
 

Your “lack of interest “ in meditation isn’t for no reason at all. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

If you are in any way attached to the idea/experience of increased awareness due to meditation, that in itself is the very thing that stands in the way for even more awareness and spirituality. So letting go of it, perhaps even quitting does not mean the end of your spiritual path, but could actually be a key step in the process.

Take it from someone who meditated maybe two years, only for my version of spiritually to one night after a 3 hour mediation, reveal itself as a layer of my mind (ironic huh?) I haven’t revisited the practice since. But went more in that practical orange direction as you describe, working on different facets on my human self.

My “default state” now is wayyyyy more meditative than when I used to meditate back then. My life is way more mystical than before. My past self couldn’t even IMAGINE my default now. In a way I do meditations spontaneously such as when I dance I get really into it, sometimes when resting or sitting on the train etc, or I’ll have deep contemplations running effortlessly in my mind as I’m going through my day. To suggest the end of a meditation practice to be the end of spiritual growth is a very narrow view of spirituality to me. But I can totally see where that sense could be coming from

You are obviously a very developed, disciplined above average guy, multi faceted and complex. The fact that you are able to recognize this battle between those desires shows to me you are very aware and in touch with yourself and your own mind. Don’t limit yourself to ideas you hear from people, in my opinion. Even ideas from people who themselves are very advanced. Doesn’t mean that has to be your path because it was their path and the way it’s suggested, the way people teach.
 

Your “lack of interest “ in meditation isn’t for no reason at all. 

Hmmm.. that was pretty clean. You've almost even admited that there's progression towards more growth and awareness and that spirituality has stages whereas before you would've sayed "everyone is already awake", and made that into an excuse for complacency.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Hmmm.. that was pretty clean. You've almost even admited that there's progression towards more growth and awareness and that spirituality has stages whereas before you would've sayed "everyone is already awake", and made that into an excuse for complacency.

Each reply and each post caters towards a particular audience and person, where I try to sense where they are coming from by relating it to my own experience. 
 

The same words can mean many different things .

[Salvijus]

25 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Each reply and each post caters towards a particular audience and person, where I try to sense where they are coming from by relating it to my own experience. 
 

The same words can mean many different things .

Naaah, slowly you're starting to admit progression on the path, levels of more and more peace, more and more authenticity, more and more wisdom, more and more grace and radience. It's not too long until your neo-advaita ideas will fly out the windom, muahahaha.

[Sugarcoat]

12 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Naaah, slowly you're starting to admit progression on the path, levels of more and more peace, more and more authenticity, more and more wisdom, more and more grace and radience. It's not too long until your neo-advaita ideas will fly out the windom, muahahaha.

Sure if it gladdens you see to it like that??

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Sure if it gladdens you see to it like that??

It does. It will be a great day for humanity.

[Sugarcoat]

16 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

It does. It will be a great day for humanity.

I’ll take that as a compliment then

[Salvijus]

25 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’ll take that as a compliment then

Reminds me of this somehow lol

But yea, it was appropriate for  you to take it as a compliment.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Salvijus

[Majed]

@RedLine business, exercise, and dating are all necessary parts of self actualization. they're not contradictory to meditation. in fact they're similar in the sense that you're pursuing self actualization. don't fall into this stupid dichotomy of material vs spiritual. without the material stuff there's no spirituality, and yet everyday is spiritual. so reframe those 2 not as stage orange vs spirituality, but rather as moving up maslow's hierarchy of needs. 

you can still meditate and do all those things. or you can wait to master those things and then start meditating again. however i recommend you keep up an hour of daily meditation. you can do it, and after a few years it'll build up. 

[RedLine]

1 hour ago, Majed said:

@RedLine business, exercise, and dating are all necessary parts of self actualization. they're not contradictory to meditation. in fact they're similar in the sense that you're pursuing self actualization. don't fall into this stupid dichotomy of material vs spiritual. without the material stuff there's no spirituality, and yet everyday is spiritual. so reframe those 2 not as stage orange vs spirituality, but rather as moving up maslow's hierarchy of needs. 

you can still meditate and do all those things. or you can wait to master those things and then start meditating again. however i recommend you keep up an hour of daily meditation. you can do it, and after a few years it'll build up. 

Actually, I feel they are contradictory...

To get into the Truth you need a very very strong intention to get into the truth, into the present moment, whatever it is. If you are in the orange path you are entertained, you are addicted to the improvements your ego is making and you put aside existential/spiritual issues.

I got massive spiritual improvement 5 years ago, in a bad life moment, when I put everything aside and my only goal was Truth, 24/7.

I suspect that this orange shit is just evil to make us keep rolling on the wheel of samsara.

 

 

 

[RedLine]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Bro, your desires are not an obstacle to god, they are your bread crumbs to god. Each desire if you look carefully at them has a deeper meaning than you ascribe to. Your desire for wealth is a desire for expansion and freedom. Your desire for relationship is a desire for love and the joy of intimacy and union. Your desire for status and recognition is your desire for god's greatness radiating through to touch other people, to become devine and radiant and beautiful like god is, like your true Self is. 

 

Maan, and the the murderer's desire to strangle the victim to death is a a desire of release trough the death of the vicitim, which is projection of his desire of disolving his ego into the Absolute and stop suffering. But this does not make murder something good to pursue. What kind of reasoning is that haha

Edited June 25, 2023 by RedLine

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, RedLine said:

Maan, and the the murderer's desire to strangle the victim to death is a a desire of release trough the death of the vicitim, which is projection of his desire of disolving his ego into the Absolute and stop suffering. But this does not make murder something good to pursue. What kind of reasoning is that haha

I've adressed this in my second paragraph. That unconscious desire leads to futile waste of energy and unfulfillment. Trying to murder someone is unconscious desire. Like you sayed that one is actually looking for relief from suffering in some way, which is ultimately a desire for peace and freedom and god. So even a desire to murder someone is a desire for god. But because it's unconscious, it becomes a waste of time and in this particular case very toxic.

My suggestion in the second paragraph was not to act on your impulses unconsciously but rather to look deeper into your desires and really see them for what they are at their essence. Theirin lies your answer to what direction to take in life and clarity from all confusion over this matter.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Salvijus

[TheCloud]

6 hours ago, RedLine said:

To get into the Truth you need a very very strong intention to get into the truth

That's only half-true.  The Truth is both very hard and very easy, because it's Everything.  It's your ego that wants to say it's "just hard" or "just easy" and lock it down.  If you stop meditation and Truth-seeking and go full orange for a while, and end up finding the Truth, then how can it be said that you ever left the spiritual path?

 

Edit:  I'm not spiritually enlightened, so take this with a proverbial grain of salt.

Edited June 25, 2023 by TheCloud

[Sugarcoat]

24 minutes ago, TheCloud said:

That's only half-true.  The Truth is both very hard and very easy, because it's Everything.  It's your ego that wants to say it's "just hard" or "just easy" and lock it down.  If you stop meditation and Truth-seeking and go full orange for a while, and end up finding the Truth, then how can it be said that you ever left the spiritual path?

 

Edit:  I'm not spiritually enlightened, so take this with a proverbial grain of salt.

You sound more “enlightened” than half of these “enlightened” people in this forum tho ?

[TheCloud]

@Sugarcoat It's how I pick up chicks.  It's a great method that should start working in the next hundred years or so.  I'm going to live really long because I'm so enlightened, you know.  Actually, the only reason I'm going to live so long is so I can pick up more chicks.  That's all enlightenment really is, is picking up chicks.  You're not into hot bods or interesting conversation, right?  All women want is a dude who's super-enlightened and better than everyone else.

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, TheCloud said:

@Sugarcoat It's how I pick up chicks.  It's a great method that should start working in the next hundred years or so.  I'm going to live really long because I'm so enlightened, you know.  Actually, the only reason I'm going to live so long is so I can pick up more chicks.  That's all enlightenment really is, is picking up chicks.  You're not into hot bods or interesting conversation, right?  All women want is a dude who's super-enlightened and better than everyone else.

"the ultimate universal male truth"

[Michal__]

If you quit spirituality your business performance will be worse. All that concentration and cognitive gains will do you wonders if you build a business or study something really hard.

I'd personally reduce the amount of time you spend practicing and fill in the cognitive difference with some nootropics so you still feel great.

Speaking from experience because I've done the same.