Which is more important to pursue? Self actualization or spirituality?

[fabger]

To me they seem a bit contradictory. Which is more important?

[Hojo]

the goal of spirituality is self actualization

[Yimpa]

Self-actualization if you want to master the game. 
Spirituality if you want to end the game. 

 

[Joscha]

I think Jed McKenna would say that self actualisation (or growing up into human adulthood) is what everybody wants. Waking up, awakening, is what nobody wants. Because you don't gain anything from it. He say's he only recommends it to those who are so sick of falseness that they literally can't do anything else. 

Based on how you phrase the question, it would seem to me like self actualisation is what you want. It is important to a person to grow up. It is not important to the person to awaken, because that's the end. 

I feel like both are important and can be done simultaneously. If truth is what you truly care about, focus on awakening. If you want happiness, the good life, a meaningful life, focus on self actualisation. 

Self actualisation seems to me more like a scale or a spectrum. It may not ever really end. So once you have grown up enough at some point the desire for truth may arise. Its not like you end the actualisation part and then move onto awakening, I don't think. Plenty of growing up to do after awakening, if the developmental models are right. Look at your life and it will probably become obvious what should be the next step.

[gettoefl]

self help then self halt

1st half of life, 2nd half of life

[Oppositionless]

@Joscha invisible guru forum jed mckenna (the “real” one) disagrees with book jed mckenna on that point. awakening is beautiful.

book jed mckenna has a nihilistic streak. forum jed mckenna is much more conscious of the beauty and love of God. 

nihilism is only like stage one of awakening.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Oppositionless

[Sugarcoat]

15 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Self-actualization if you want to master the game. 
Spirituality if you want to end the game. 

 

If you “master” the game it’s the same as ending it as now you’re no longer struggling

[Ajax]

Neither, both are paths, not the destination. What is important is the Ultimate Realization, which is "Knowing".

Self-actualization is the path of living up to your potential.

Spirituality is the path of realizing everything you think you know is pure BS. There is no path.

Don't think of them as something to separate. Like you don't want to separate your heart and brain from your body. Develop each to the best of your ability.

That being said, if you don't have the tools to handle the hell on earth, you will fail in both. So, focus on LP and financial security at least, so you don't get crushed by your environment. So, for you, I say Self-Actualization.

[Dauntment]

Survival --> Self-Actualization --> Spirituality; I would reference Spiral Dynamics as a model to consider.

[Joscha]

@Oppositionless  Oh cool I didn't know there was a forum! I only know book version Jed McKenna. Where can I find the invisible guru forum jed mckenna? 

Why do you think he presents a nihilistic perspective in his books?

[Recursoinominado]

Money, fame and bitches.

Then you go for enlightenment and God realization. 

[Blackjack38]

I think if someone wants to awaken and lives in western society, they would probably need to have maslows lower level needs met to the degree of esteem needs at least. Because the western culture always forces you to meet these needs and therefore there must be a solid ground for a serious spiritual path to happen without giving up. If the person doesnt have so much material pleasure and earns a decent amount of money, then there is no reason not to pursue spirituality.

[njuufa]

My Self actualizing journey started through spirituality.

I feel no contradiction between these. When I grow spiritually I Self actualize. 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by njuufa

[r0ckyreed]

They are the same. 

[Norbert Somogyi]

They appear to be polar opposites, yet that is how they attract each other. Spirituality can manifest on any stages of personal development, however it tends to become more integral at advanced levels.

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

They are the same. 

5 hours ago, Sidra khan said:

Omg your avatar, please change it ?

Rocky Balboa is a great example of self-actualization and spirituality ??

[r0ckyreed]

What spirituality can there be if you cannot discipline yourself to read a book, meditate for 10 minutes a day, exercise, etc.?

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

What spirituality can there be if you cannot discipline yourself to read a book, meditate for 10 minutes a day, exercise, etc.?

Whipping yourself can only go so far. I find that I’m able to discipline myself when I begin by first learning to trust myself.

[Enigma777]

They overlap. There is no contradiction between them. You seem to have a crude conception of both these things, the only problem is in how you see these concepts. Spirituality is the continuation of self actualization. The purpose of self actualization is the same as individuation in Jungian terms. The purpose of spirituality is the dissolution of the IDENTIFICATION with the individual. But in the natural process of the evolution of your consciousness, spirituality is nothing but a continuation of self actualization. Individuation is a prerequisite to the transcendence of identification with such individuality, they are not opposites, they are part of a continuum. In spiral dynamics, you must go through and burn the karma of previous stages before being properly integrated at a new level of consciousness. 

So again, they are part of the same process just like an orgasm is the product of the continuation of masturbation, well spirituality is the continuation and emerging product of evolving your consciousness to a certain level.

I highly recommend you Leo’s video about burning karma.

[r0ckyreed]

20 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Whipping yourself can only go so far. I find that I’m able to discipline myself when I begin by first learning to trust myself.

How can you trust yourself if you keep setting goals but lack the discipline to follow them through.

Thats like saying you can trust a friend who never keeps their promises. Part of discipline is trusting yourself of course. But the trust can only go so far. You need evidence. You know you are doing spirituality well when you can see it is changing your life, making discipline effortless. I didn’t say whip yourself. You said that.

Edited June 29, 2023 by r0ckyreed