"How I Increased My IQ By 13 Points" - IQ boost via working memory training?

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Epikur said:

I tried it couple of hours it kind of worked but I felt like I could use that energy to learn actually real things.

I might try it again if I get some convincing reasons.

Consistency over volume for this. My routine is 10 sets every other day, which takes 17-18 minutes if you rest 10-20 seconds between each set. It's not a big investment in terms of time, but it can make you a bit tired, so you should ideally not prioritize it over work. I sometimes crank out those sets while commuting, so no time is really lost. I think it's definitely worth the investment. My mind is a lot quicker than it used to be.

Edited January 2 by Carl-Richard

[Epikur]

55 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Consistency over volume for this. My routine is 10 sets every other day, which takes 17-18 minutes if you rest 10-20 seconds between each set. It's not a big investment in terms of time, but it can make you a bit tired, so you should ideally not prioritize it over work. I sometimes crank out those sets while commuting, so no time is really lost. I think it's definitely worth the investment. My mind is a lot quicker than it used to be.

The problem is not the time it is the depleting willpower. How much percentage do you think did you become better? 

Edit 1

Saw that one on reddit:

 

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Because I had taken at least 16 IQ tests that were all below 119. Then when I start dual n back it increases this rapidly.

I'll tell you exactly what changes I feel.

I notice I can take in words when I read in dramatically greater numbers. I used to read 1-3 words at a time, but now I'm almost taking in an entire line of words at a time, which is about 12 words.

I also notice I've stopped thinking in words. Now I think purely in causal relationships, if I'm making myself understandable.

And the physics. Oh the physics. Everything just clicks, and I know it's just me because the average grade in my class has stayed more or less the same.

 

Edited January 2 by Epikur

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Epikur said:

The problem is not the time it is the depleting willpower. How much percentage do you think did you become better? 

Edit 1

Saw that one on reddit:

I mean, the progression from 2-Back to high-end 4-Back says a lot. Other than that, it does actually feel like I've gained an additional 10 IQ points. I think faster, read faster, write faster, perform mental arithmetic faster, stumble less often when I speak, I'm better at listening to people speak, understanding things, etc. I think another thing that helped significantly was adding sprints to my training regimen, so that may be a confound for how I feel subjectively, but still, I was advancing in n-Back ability before that as well.

Edited January 2 by Carl-Richard

[Epikur]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

I mean, the progression from 2-Back to high-end 4-Back says a lot. Other than that, it does actually feel like I've gained an additional 10 IQ points. I think faster, I read faster, I write faster, I perform mental arithmetic faster, I stumble less often when I speak, I'm better at listening to people speak, understanding things, etc. I think another thing that helped significantly was adding sprints to my training regimen, so that may be a confound for how I feel subjectively, but still, I was advancing in n-Back ability before that as well.

Ok thanks. I will give it a try again.

[Carl-Richard]

I’ll give some of my own insights into how I’ve started to do Dual-N-Back over time and what works and doesn’t work. It’s tricky to describe how your mind does these types of things, but I’ll try anyway. Also, I’m going to describe more what your mindset should be rather than what your mind is actually going to do, because your mind is always going to do things that you don’t expect. So don’t expect any type of perfection in what you’re doing or even in what I’m trying to explain. It’s at best a pointer.

At the very start of a set, I try to focus on encoding and retaining a sequence (writing it into memory and holding on to it), which is the first N audio stimuli (e.g. first 4 letters in 4-Back), because that is what is limiting me, as the visual part seems almost automatic at this point (but it will be impacted if I fail to do what I’m about to describe). Then, when the 5th stimuli comes, stop trying to retain the first sequence in memory and simply repeat the process of encoding a new sequence of N letters while simultaneously waiting for a letter that you think matches a letter from the first sequence, which indeed is something you have to “wait for” and not put too much deliberate effort into doing. It’s the like the information or the feeling of “match” comes to you intuitively, even without currently "seeing" the letters in your minds eye so to speak. It seems like merely forming the intention of wanting to hear a match or creating a form of attention to do that is sufficient.

What you want to avoid is rehearsing the first sequence of N letters as you’re encoding then next sequence (e.g. repeating the sequence to yourself in your inner voice or quietly to yourself). This will interfere with encoding, and also you’re not allowing your short-term memory to do the work for you so to speak, which is a part of the point of this game I think; to train your short-term memory capacity to store a decently long string of information, while also systematically changing out what you’re currently storing in your short-term memory, which would be the “working memory” aspect. I think this “encoding N-chunks” method is the most natural and maybe most efficient way of doing this.

In other words, you should be able to identify a matching letter as you’re encoding the next sequence without thinking much about the previous sequence. I think this can maybe help people to advance faster, because all games need a strategy (some more systematic than others, but they all definitely need a strategy), and even though this is probably what most people end up doing naturally, it can help to become aware of what you're doing.

As for how I approach the visual aspect, it’s much harder to describe, but it has something to do with eye movements and visualizing where the boxes have been and where the next boxes should land were they to be a match (and it all happens very quickly). But again, this is not usually the part that you'll struggle with if you're doing Dual with audio (and it's also the hardest to describe, so there is not a huge pay-off from talking about it).

Edited January 10 by Carl-Richard

[Dryas]

On 02/01/2024 at 10:48 PM, Carl-Richard said:

I mean, the progression from 2-Back to high-end 4-Back says a lot. Other than that, it does actually feel like I've gained an additional 10 IQ points. I think faster, read faster, write faster, perform mental arithmetic faster, stumble less often when I speak, I'm better at listening to people speak, understanding things, etc. I think another thing that helped significantly was adding sprints to my training regimen, so that may be a confound for how I feel subjectively, but still, I was advancing in n-Back ability before that as well.

Not isn't solid enough imo (too subjective). This might be a little silly but like try doing some complicated physics/maths/cs/engineering questions and see if you can actually solve them quickly? Something that doesn't require too much prerequisite knowledge, of course.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Dryas said:

Not isn't solid enough imo (too subjective). This might be a little silly but like try doing some complicated physics/maths/cs/engineering questions and see if you can actually solve them quickly? Something that doesn't require too much prerequisite knowledge, of course.

I haven't done any complicated physics/math problems in years, so there would be nothing to compare. I think I've passed the newbie gains by this point, so I don't think I'll see any big changes from now, although we'll see when I decide to switch to 5-Back, which I think will be really soon (I'm consistently hitting 60-70% success rate in every session).

There are studies on N-Back training that show a positive effect on IQ, but there are mixed results (which is basically normal in psychological research). If you think it sounds interesting, try it. If not, cool. I'm not trying to claim that it absolutely works. It seems to work for me though.

Edited January 10 by Carl-Richard

[Danioover9000]

   I feel like just meditation, with some puzzle solving, and playing strategy games will increase IQ a little bit, but I do feel like meditation might have a greater influence on that increase. Why not just focus more on meditation instead of these several brain training programs?

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

   I feel like just meditation, with some puzzle solving, and playing strategy games will increase IQ a little bit, but I do feel like meditation might have a greater influence on that increase. Why not just focus more on meditation instead of these several brain training programs?

Because meditation does not involve manipulating heavy pieces of information in your working memory at high speeds. Meditation does increase IQ, but it does so arguably by reducing the ADHD-like interference from self-referential thinking (or more generally task-irrelevant thinking). So you'll be more able to do your tasks uninterrupted, but your ability to do those tasks is in a sense not actually increased. For example, you can learn to play the guitar faster by practicing meditation, but to get better at guitar, you actually have to play the guitar. It's the same for manipulating things in your working memory.

And the subjective effects on your awareness are quite distinct. It's a funny coincidence, but this actually happened just earlier today: I tried meditating a while before reading some article, and I noticed my reading got more smooth, but then I wanted to see how doing some rounds of N-Back affected it, and then my reading became more laser-like, more high-speed, more high-energy. And it's not surprising that engaging in different activities affects your mind in different ways. It's rather something to be expected.

This goes back to notions like meditation being like a generalizable skill that translates to all skills, affecting the fluidity of awareness, not the contents of awareness, and how awareness is distinct from functions like attention, thinking, perceiving, feeling. It practices your ability to enter flow, not the activity of the flow. I heard from somewhere that some monks who lived in a monastery their whole life meditating had IQs of around 70. So definitely there are other factors involved. You have to use your mind a certain way to perform on an IQ test, and staring into a wall all day is not that.

Edited January 11 by Carl-Richard

[Epikur]

@Carl-Richard

I will try to train a bit of math to make my brain going besides dual n back Seems to work for some boxers:

 

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AI Bing:

Lomachenko and Usyk are two Ukrainian boxers who are very good at math. Math training can improve one’s cognitive abilities, such as reasoning, problem-solving, memory, and learning. These abilities are also important for boxing. Some studies have shown that math training can increase IQ, which is a measure of cognitive abilities. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

Has anybody tried "image streaming"?

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“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” — Albert Einstein

Image Streaming is a technique you can use to improve your visual thinking and verbal fluency.

Whether you want flashes of insights or simply to build your working vocabulary, you can practice Image Streaming on your own.

Image Streaming is a creative thinking technique developed by Win Wenger, Ph.D.  He modeled it after visual thinkers like Einstein.

Wenger claims that Einstein developed the foundations for the Theory of Relativity while visualizing himself “driving a train and looking into mirror asking a question if he could see his face”.

https://sourcesofinsight.com/image-streaming/

 

I'm curious if it has any side effects (like the ones I noticed with Quad-N-Back).

[Davino]

Thsi is interesting, thanks for sharing

[Cireeric]

I followed the Infinite IQ guy for quite some time now. Although I think overall his visions seems to be a bit narrow (narrowing down on money and IQ) I like his methodical approach and I must admit I was avoiding the Dual-n-Back training for quite some time since it seems to be a pain in the ass in the beginning.

Now after training consistently for 2 weeks the progress is faster than I would have thought. It took 2-3 training sessions till I got 90-100% on dual-2-back and then I switched to dual-3-back. Today it felt way easier to play and I scored consistently over 60% on dual-3-back. 

If my observations arent just placebo I think it translates well into speech-pace and fluidity. Im excited to explore the potentials of training regularly. Nice!

I found this site, where you can play all levels without ads: https://dual-n-back.io/ I hope there is not better or worse algorithm-method on these sites.

[SaWaSaurus]

I was reading something relevant the other day. Aldous Huxley developed some condition that diminished his sight, and so he was interested in the training of the senses. Huxley found that training the senses went beyond just seeing better, that there was a total gestalt of mind-body coordination which maximizes things like speaking, memory, thought. He was a contemporary of F.M. Alexander and John Dewey, who both agreed that training the senses was of the highest importance when it comes to education.

Huxley saw methods like the tachystoscope as exercises in bypassing the conscious and subconscious processes, which is necessary for optimal performance.

Quote

"In training vision, Renshaw makes extensive use of the tachystoscope— a magic lantern fitted with a shutter that permits the projection of images for a period ranging from a tenth to a thousandth of a second or less. Most training is done with exposures of one hundredth of a second.

"Tachystoscopic training is essentially a method for by passing the bad habits acquired by the conscious self. In ordinary seeing we are hardly ever directly aware of our immediate impressions. For these immediate impressions are more or less profoundly modified by a mind that does most of its thinking in terms of words. Every perception is promptly conceptualizedand generalized, so that we do not see the particular thing or event in its naked immediacy; we see only the objective illustration of some generic notion, only the concretion of an abstract word. Our ordinary habits of perception cause us to see the world as Platonists. The tachystoscope transforms us into Nominalists and Impressionists." -Huxley, Adonis and the Alphabet

 

[Keryo Koffa]

Here's how you really do it:

[Carl-Richard]

@Keryo Koffa

🤨

[The Renaissance Man]

Are ya'll familiar with mnemonics and their competitions? There are people and techniques that help you excel at this kind of stuff extremely. Is their working memory really improving? Debatable. They'd all be Tesla right now.

And even if you don't use any technique, the brain over time just becomes able to develop specific pattern recognition and chunking abilities, so it's not really the working memory that's expanding, but it's the "slots" occupied by each bit of information that "shrinks", or becomes more manageable. As soon as you change field radically enough to make the patterns useless, you're back at zero. This is what goes on if you train for IQ tests for example.

This to say that progress in this kind of exercises doesn't necessarily mean progress in your working memory, it's just that your brain has developed better and better specific chunking and pattern recognition abilities.

[Carl-Richard]

14 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Are ya'll familiar with mnemonics and their competitions? There are people and techniques that help you excel at this kind of stuff extremely. Is their working memory really improving? Debatable. They'd all be Tesla right now.

And even if you don't use any technique, the brain over time just becomes able to develop specific pattern recognition and chunking abilities, so it's not really the working memory that's expanding, but it's the "slots" occupied by each bit of information that "shrinks", or becomes more manageable. As soon as you change field radically enough to make the patterns useless, you're back at zero. This is what goes on if you train for IQ tests for example.

This to say that progress in this kind of exercises doesn't necessarily mean progress in your working memory, it's just that your brain has developed better and better specific chunking and pattern recognition abilities.

If you're playing the game and putting in an effort and you develop fatigue, that is a sign you're using your working memory. It's true that your brain develops strategies over time, but that is countered by simply increasing the difficulty of the game in the game settings. So to see progress, just increase the difficulty over time.

Edited October 28 by Carl-Richard

[The Renaissance Man]

@Carl-Richard Yes I'm not saying the problem is that the game becomes easier and easier, I'm saying why progress in the game will probably not translate to other areas.

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

@Carl-Richard Yes I'm not saying the problem is that the game becomes easier and easier, I'm saying why progress in the game will probably not translate to other areas.

This might be interesting:

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2015.00430/full

Edited October 29 by Carl-Richard