"How I Increased My IQ By 13 Points" - IQ boost via working memory training?

[UnbornTao]

Start watching Futurama already.

[Carl-Richard]

The 13 IQ increase guy said in the comment section to his video that the progress is logarithmic, meaning you could probably achieve a 6-7 point increase in the first 40 hours. But he also said that the last few points are more valuable (for the reasons I stated previously), so the 400 hours are still worth it according to him.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

I found out the 13 IQ increase guy was practicing using Quad n-back, not Dual n-Back. After getting to 83% success on Quad 2-back, I tried doing Quad 3-Back just now and it's so hard. The jump from 2-Back to 3-Back when you have to remember 4 different chunks of information all at once is aggressive.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Optimized Life said:

Just keep going. I found quad 3 back impossible for a couple weeks but the other day I got 65% rating !

I felt that Quad 3-Back was too much, so now I'm doing Triple-3-Back (Audio, Position, Color). I usually get between 25-40%, but the first trial of the day tends to be considerably higher for some reason (today I got 57%). I try to do at least 10 trials a day (15 minutes). I think if I wanted to take it more seriously, I should do at least 1 hour a day (that's what I did with meditation).

Edited September 21, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Optimized Life]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 think if I wanted to take it more seriously, I should do at least 1 hour a day (that's what I did with meditation).

The only thing that seems (Imo) to matter is consistency over the long term, although maybe longer sessions are valid too. 

quad n back very draining 

I can't really do more than 30 minutes and even though it's really fun, I do it every 2 days now but maybe I could do it every day, it's just that, I feel like your brain needs rest becasue you wouldn't do heavy leg workout every day and in the rest your muscles actually grow, couldn't it be the same with the brain?

Edited September 21, 2023 by Optimized Life

[Carl-Richard]

@Optimized Life

You could have a point. On a second thought, meditation doesn't seem comparable at all. N-Back feels like it actually requires a lot of effort. Meditation is the complete opposite for me. I'm just sitting and doing nothing, relaxing, untightening knots, doing an internal message. N-Back is staring intensely into a screen while running a marathon in my working memory. Meditation leaves me energized, N-Back leaves me a bit drained.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[ValiantSalvatore]

Anyone seriously tested themselves before & re-tested themselves after doing dual n-back to see any serious improvement on IQ? As I was with the psychotherapist I did a mensa screening at home from the official website and colluded with the official mensa forum to take the test or not to get some scholarships etc, and generally if the screening says anything, and they said the same thing go for it and take the chance. Personally as I do a mindfulness meditation with labelling it can be quiet cognitively demanding for example focusing on spacious qualities, flow, expansive qualities and all mixtures and forms of it, then at times nothing is active and I could notice more rest and even that is very active in a sense and I feel definitely drained after doing an at home retreat of 8h-6h, yet generally speaking when I hit 1h I feel drained a bit. So I dunno how this is different in terms of an IQ boost. I felt like I increased mine, as I legit heard synapsis or neurons firing as well as electric wiring and "knack" sounds, when I meditated very very early in my journey in my early twenties like 21-26 years old. I felt my brain became so connected with information, correct & incorrect etc. In contrast to when I do do-nothing type of meditations I solve problems more creatively, yet I don't feel that sharpness and edge, only on retreats with some level of do-nothing focus like... having opened, and it's not as sharp as doing mindfulness with labeling, although I prefer a do-nothing style as I solve more problems based on deep intuition and AHA! moments, I get more of those to explain simply here. Focused meditation styles for me are very exhausting besides the focus on the breath. 

I did some n-back and generally practied some stuff that was recommended to "increase iq" if you believe so like seeking out novelity, doing things the hard way and networking, I found the website they also write about a study doing this dual n-back training and subjects were able to increase fluid intelligence or working memory, so I did both with labelig meditation and even did nootropics the effect, was every other skill I trained I was 15-20% more efficient and effective, yet I did this maximally for 1 month or 2 weeks, as it was very demanding and a lot of shit happend. Anyone seriously re-tested themselves in anyway? As I did not know at that time I could be part of mensa (I don't care otherwise I would've taken the test already) and just did this as a self-experiment.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/you-can-increase-your-intelligence-5-ways-to-maximize-your-cognitive-potential/

Edited September 22, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Dryas]

IQ is just a measure though, maybe it's being gamed somehow by doing these practices? Improving general reasoning, comprehension and problem solving abilities (among other things) is the real goal.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Dryas

[Optimized Life]

8 hours ago, Dryas said:

IQ is just a measure though, maybe it's being gamed somehow by doing these practices? Improving general reasoning, comprehension and problem solving abilities (among other things) is the real goal.

This game solely works on working memory, assumption is that WM enhancement WOULD lead to improvements in all those core functions because WM ability is like so core to everyday functioning.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by Optimized Life

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Optimized Life said:

This game solely works on working memory, assumption is that WM enhancement WOULD lead to improvements in all those core functions because WM ability is like so core to everyday functioning.  

I just thought of an interesting analogy: if your mind is the act of walking, your working memory is the soles of your feet (I have no idea how accurate this is lol; my mind is very tired, it's walking slowly).

Edited September 23, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

I just thought of an interesting analogy: if your mind is the act of walking, your working memory is the soles of your feet (I have no idea how accurate this is lol; my mind is very tired, it's walking slowly).

Memory seems to be a minor aspect of mind. But no idea on my part either.

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Memory seems to be a minor aspect of mind. But no idea on my part either.

You could argue it's nothing but memory: memory and associations.

[UnbornTao]

On 23/9/2023 at 11:51 AM, Carl-Richard said:

You could argue it's nothing but memory: memory and associations.

True.

But consider emotions, for example. They occur "within" mind and are considered to be an aspect of it. Even then, they seem to be more than just memory. Something to look into.

Edited September 25, 2023 by UnbornTao

[MarkKol]

53 posts in this thread and 21 are by Carl-Richard

You got something to say? DUMBO

I rub Vitamin d on my balls and increase my testosterone by 13 points, rookies.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, MarkKol said:

53 posts in this thread and 21 are by Carl-Richard

You got something to say? DUMBO

I rub Vitamin d on my balls and increase my testosterone by 13 points, rookies.

My IQ just decreased 13 points by reading this 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

On 21.9.2023 at 11:10 PM, Optimized Life said:

I do it every 2 days now but maybe I could do it every day, it's just that, I feel like your brain needs rest becasue you wouldn't do heavy leg workout every day and in the rest your muscles actually grow, couldn't it be the same with the brain?

Bruuuh 76% success rate on Triple 3-Back (86%+71%+71%), first attempt after a 2-day break. Maybe you're right that you should take breaks.

[Epikur]

Finally after meditating for 85 minutes (with breaks) my brain allows me to make plans to try this. 

[Carl-Richard]

I’ve had a suspicion for a while that practicing N-back with multiple stimulus types (especially Quad N-Back) promotes the equivalent of ADHD, because it incentives you to change attention between different stimulus types to get a more even score, because an even score generally feels better than an uneven score (in my opinion).

I think the more psychologically healthy option is to choose the amount of stimulus types that gives a roughly even score, across all stimulus types and at all stages of learning at a given N-back level. For example, when advancing from 3-Back to 4-Back, if you for example get 30%-10%-0%-0% on Quad-4-Back, you should lower it down to Triple-4-Back. If it’s still uneven (say 30%-10%-0%), lower it down to Dual-4-Back.

I find that Dual with audio and position (but probably any visual alternative could work, e.g. color or shape) is the best (I'm on Dual-4-Back right now), because they seem the least likely to compete for your attention (the audio and visual system seem to operate decently well in parallel). You can still rotate between different Dual combinations (with audio as a constant) if you want to train with other stimuli, which might also train different aspects of your brain and might offload fatigue from other brain areas (plus, more variation means less boredom). That said, the fatigue is probably largely systemic, as N-Back tasks seem to increase integration across brain networks, so rotating stimulus types will probably have limited effectiveness:

I’ll maybe experiment with doing 3 sets of each combination in my daily routine of 10 sets to see if there is a decrease in fatigue compared to doing just one combination. My intuition tells me it’s most ideal to practice just one combination each session, kinda like how most bodybuilders split their workouts into chest day, back day, leg day, etc. From that perspective, practicing Quad-N-Backs would be like trying to hit a whole-body workout with the same volume as a weekly 3-way split (which is simply intractable).

Edited November 4, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

Progress on Dual-4-Back  Maybe 5-Back soon?

[Epikur]

I tried it couple of hours it kind of worked but I felt like I could use that energy to learn actually real things.

I might try it again if I get some convincing reasons.