Solipsism and no self

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, Moksha said:

All qualia are imaginary, including the appearance of sensations and perceptions.

If it begins or ends, it isn't real.

If it moves or changes, it isn't real.

If it is separate, combinable, or divisible, it isn't real.

If it is describable or definable, it isn't real.

Reality is the absolute appearing as unreality, and essentially being beyond appearance.

God is imaginary too, it creates itself from the fact of the absence of limitations, and it is the activity that imagines an experience to the exclusion of what is not that experience. there are infinite gods and all are aspects of the absolute. The absolute is the ultimate reality and it is beyond God, it has no beginning or end, and it is not experience, it is immobile because it includes everything, it simply is, in eternity, and ultimate it is you, without any attribute because it has all the attributes. It is total freedom, and on it, the infinite gods create their apparent movement, which is really nothing.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

 

 

Of course, simplifying the extremely complex is a mistake. reality is extremely complicated, although in the end, it is very simple: infinite

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

reality is extremely complicated, although in the end, it is very simple: infinite

My friend, you are priceless.

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

My friend, you are priceless.

Seriously, it's very complicated. the first step is to realize infinity, really. This without psychedelics is extremely difficult. without 5 meo, I would say, and after many dozens of trips. then, you have realized what you really are, but that does not mean that you understand anything. Saying things like Shrodinger's cat is not real understanding, or saying that you are imagining reality. who is imagining? you? That deserves a much deeper analysis. unless we say: none of that matters, only the absolute is. ok, I agree with that, but if so, let's close the forum

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Seriously, it's very complicated.

YOU make it complicated. Or rather, the mind likes to keep it complicated because if it recognized how simple it all really is, it would all of a sudden find itself unmployed. And we can't have THAT, now can we?

[Yimpa]

@Bazooka Jesus I’ve been unemployed for a few months, and now I’m bored. Besides, the psychedelics aren’t gonna pay themselves 

[Moksha]

38 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The absolute is the ultimate reality and it is beyond God

The name (absolute, god, whatever) is only a pointer to reality.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The name (absolute, god, whatever) is only a pointer to reality.

And holding onto any pointer as if reality depends on it is a mistake.

[Davino]

Both are terms that point to an absolute state, that you have made relative, conceptual and antagonistic.

Absolute means without opposites. It just depends on your wiring if you will name it in the plus or minus side when you come down.

Now some context. Leo usually understands no self as the first awakenings where you realize you are not your actual biographical self, then you awaken to the real Self. Buddhist would frame it more as realizing you are not your biographical self, then dissolving all solidities of this ego self to make a constant state of no-self in your every day life. Once all solidities are dissolved (the I centre is no more and you have a 360 non locative experience 24/7) that would be no-self. If that is the Self, it's hard to tell as they are not there anymore and the wiring to arrive there will shift their experience 

[Reciprocality]

Solipsism confuses the realisation that a) other people are our ideas and senses with a thesis of how b) there cannot be something hiding behind their appearance.

But everything in our lives implies that there is someone hiding behind the appearance of other people, and that what hides behind this appearance shares with us many of the same indivisibles.

If you want to know what I mean by indivisibles I can explain that too, some call them substances, axioms, substrates, but "indivisibles" is more metaphysically neutral it seems.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Reciprocality

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

YOU make it complicated. Or rather, the mind likes to keep it complicated because if it recognized how simple it all really is, it would all of a sudden find itself unmployed. And we can't have THAT, now can we?

It depends. you can make it extremely simple: only the absolute is real, it is infinite and it is everything. it is simply absence of limits. spirituality = realizing the infinite, that you are ultimately that and the rest is illusion.

or complicated: existence manifests itself in infinite forms that lead to greater complexity, to greater consciousness, in a perfectly balanced cosmic dance of ying and yang in which infinite bubbles of consciousness, infinite gods, complement each other and evolve in a cycle that is taking place now and of which you are a part, you follow a line of infinite experience that is both absolute since you are the absolute and you will never leave that line, and relative because it is interacting with other lines that are you in another space dimension temporary. You're deep into that dance and you're going to dance it to the end, so maybe you want to understand as much as possible what it is.

[Moksha]

54 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It depends. you can make it extremely simple...

or complicated

Outer ring: Categorize reality as simple (i.e., absolute) vs. complex (i.e., relative).

Inner ring: Categorize reality as incomprehensible (i.e., the paradoxical mystery that is beyond attributes and dualities) vs. comprehensible (i.e., conceptualizations about the nature of the cosmos).

Bullseye: Release the need to categorize, recognizing all thoughts, models, and conclusions as dross of the conditioned mind, and directly realize reality.

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

and directly realize reality.

3 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

 

 yes, any realization has to be direct, not a conclusion of a logical process, but this direct realization can then be formulated in thoughts and words, always knowing that they are just pointers

[OldManCorcoran]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, really nothing exist if you don't perceive it. If something exists it is because you are perceiving it, this means that you are creating reality. you are the absolute, beyond any perception, and any perception only occurs within you. if there is a total ego death and there is only blue, it is still you being blue. being and perceiving are the same. The question is, where is the red when you are perceiving, or being, the blue? does not exist. okay. but in the eternity of existence, it never happened? Yes, everything has happened, infinite times. so where is it? belongs to the past. but time is not real, it is a creation. reality is infinite, now. all perceptions are now, but you choose to perceive blue and exclude red. but the red remains. out of your perception. infinite gods, but all are the same, the being, you.

 

For clarity, the blue IS the perceiving of it. Blue without perceiving is like saying water without wet, but even MORE synonymous than that, to where there isn't anything but blue without anything perceiving it.

Because like the phrase water and wet, you still have an idea of water which is wet, there's water and the property wet, which given two words become two ideas... It's more singular than that so there isn't blue and the property of perceiving, it's ONLY blue.

Oneness IS blue, it IS red, it IS things rather than observing them. Probably that is important.  See: If you say it is the observing of blue, human mind is like "oh okay so there's the act of observing and there's blue... I observe many things, like blue, red, green". And through this back door enters the ego... It is just blue. Blue IS the observed blue. It's blue, just blue. And green, just green, etc... So big bang to nothing but blue qualia. Not observing of blue. Just blue...

Even in the hypothetical big bang into nothing but blue. Hypothetical, force fot a moment to consider its a big bang into just blue. With no minds, no god, no people, no life, no death, no consciousness. JUST blue... The blue IS the observed blue, it cannot be blue qualia in any other way than it is observed... And so with none of those other things even existing, it is absolutely inescapable that if blue qualia exists, it must exist precisely as it is seen... That is how absolutely nothing is magically "conscious", all qualia which exists can only exist precisely as it is seen and no other way. No minds no god no people no life and STILL if it exists it MUST exist precisely as it is. Because it cannot be blue any other way. And so there stands blue totally alone. Seemingly seen, but not seen not observed. Simply existing. Oneness IS blue IS green, etc...

Edited June 22, 2023 by OldManCorcoran

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

 yes, any realization has to be direct, not a conclusion of a logical process, but this direct realization can then be formulated in thoughts and words, always knowing that they are just pointers

The treachery of words is that they so easily misrepresent awareness as something to be sought after, discovered, or explored rather than directly realized. Concepts are entrapping, rather than enlightening.

Unfortunately, words are often a necessary medium for the absolute to indirectly communicate with itself. They are best abandoned once direct realization occurs, except as a rudimentary tool for continuing the expansion of awareness.

After awakening, the spiritual journey is about integration. Instead of trying to conceptually solve the unsolvable, it becomes the deepening process of clearing attachments, and living directly. If thoughts are increasing rather than decreasing, awareness is losing itself again, within its siren song.

[Javfly33]

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 If thoughts are increasing rather than decreasing, awareness is losing itself again, within its siren song.

Simple and beautifully put.

Something as simple as that people miss it completely 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

The treachery of words is that they so easily misrepresent awareness as something to be sought after, discovered, or explored rather than directly realized. Concepts are entrapping, rather than enlightening.

??????????????

Couldn't have said better myself,  brother.

Rumination is the favorite trick of the mind to keep itself distracted from the simple and pure realization of what is.

"How can I get out of the trap of the mind? Hmmmmmm, let me think about it..."

 

[Moksha]

@Javfly33 @Bazooka Jesus ?The mind confides, "I serve you well", while stoking up the flames of hell. 

[gettoefl]

14 hours ago, Moksha said:

All qualia are imaginary, including the appearance of sensations and perceptions.

If it begins or ends, it isn't real.

If it moves or changes, it isn't real.

If it is separate, combinable, or divisible, it isn't real.

If it is describable or definable, it isn't real.

Reality is the absolute appearing as unreality, and essentially being beyond appearance.

beautiful and for anyone curious here is how to get from the relative to the absolute per mahamudra

http://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-buddhism/original-texts/tantra-texts/root-text-for-mahamudra

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, OldManCorcoran said:

No minds no god no people no life and STILL if it exists it MUST exist

if you are not aware of it, it does not exist, since you are the existence. the consciousness of red is the red. there is nothing outside of you. "outside" does not even exist as an idea. The thing is, you're only seeing red. where is the blue? this is the difficult. It is inside you, like everything else, but you don't see it "now". how is experience created? that is the question 

12 hours ago, Moksha said:

Unfortunately, words are often a necessary medium for the absolute to indirectly communicate with itself.

The mind doesn't work with words only. it works with deep processes that we translate into words, but we can stop doing it and still use the mind. the mind is a tool of understanding. It exists, and it can be tuned.

reaching conclusions using learned logic is limited. the mind can expand enormously. the mind, in fact, is The Mind. This is not mental masturbation, it is mental tuning. simplifying and seeing the mind as something negative is a mistake. Do we want to be a fetus again? or a 3 year old? It was fun and very beautiful, but now we have a high level processor here. do we have to turn it off because it bothers us? no, we have to learn to use it.