Critique on the overuse of the left-right paradigm

[Ima Freeman]

As far as I know, the paradigm of dividing political worldviews in right (conservative) and left (progressive) stems from the French Revolution and how the proponents of the old system sat right in the parliament and the progressive thinkers sat left.
People are not one-dimensional. There are many aspects constituting to a worldview. People have positions on multiple topics. Everyone has conservative and progressive positions.

There is no person who is 100% conservative or progressive, though there are centers of gravity.

People may be nationalists and support LGBT struggles, others may criticize capitalism and support gun ownership, there are authoritarian vegans and liberal christians etc.

 

Many people do not even know what these labels mean exactly, because the words do not point to their meaning. They use it for some kinds of stereo types.
I especially see the attribution of other meanings into left/right problematic.

Often times the left is being defined as being liberal and the right with being authoritarian. That is not necessarily true. It depends on the zeitgeist.

 

If either you are a “leftist” or a “right winger” you tend to attribute all your criticism to the other side. This lead to the inflammatory division in western politics we see today, where in every situation a split is created between the populace. But there are many potential ways of dealing with situations. There are third and fourth ones and so on. A balanced multidimensional way of thinking would help to soften the division up.

 

In political media, almost every time, organizations, parties and people are characterized by how left/right they are, and then the above mentioned demonizing mostly follows.

[sholomar]

Do people here really think someone should be able to identify as a cat or a cow? I want to separate the sane leftists from the ones who would be better off institutionalized. I consider myself fairly moderate and tolerant, but so many policies seem like they're taking things to an extreme.  I do take pride in not aligning with any group of people, personally.  It makes you more prone to echo chamber thinking, hive mind mentality, and not being able to see someone else's point of view. I've tried to see the point of view of the cat identifiers, but I'm not getting it.  Call yourself whatever gender you want, but to me this smells of psychological grooming, not genetics or science.   "You need to go to a different school" "you need to have a proper educational conversion" ... pathetic really. If you don't support freedom of speech, I will stand against you to the end. Left or Right. 

I suggest not getting assimilated into any cult, and right now the woke is the "in thing" among the progressive establishment to try to assimilate people into.  Enough keeping quiet about it to remain polite, I'm going to call them out on it.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by sholomar

[DocWatts]

The Left/Right political axis should really just be seen as an orienting generalization. And for most ordinary people who don't pay attention to politics, thier own worldview is likely an inconsistent mishmash of the two (ie people thinking that the government spends too much on welfare while also thinking that it should do more to help poor people).

That said, the differences between the two aren't just armchair theorizing, they actually do matter in the real world. If you're an LGBTQ person for instance you can be damned sure that the difference matters, since one end of that spectrum is pioneering a hate campaign against you, and the other end isn't.

Both the Left and the Right end of that spectrum have their own problems, but it does no one any good to draw a false equivalency between the two. In the current political environment the far right end of that spectrum is an existential threat to democracy.

Edited June 20, 2023 by DocWatts

[Ima Freeman]

2 hours ago, DocWatts said:

The Left/Right political axis should really just be seen as an orienting generalization. And for most ordinary people who don't pay attention to politics, thier own worldview is likely an inconsistent mishmash of the two (ie people thinking that the government spends too much on welfare while also thinking that it should do more to help poor people).

That said, the differences between the two aren't just armchair theorizing, they actually do matter in the real world. If you're an LGBTQ person for instance you can be damned sure that the difference matters, since one end of that spectrum is pioneering a hate campaign against you, and the other end isn't.

Both the Left and the Right end of that spectrum have their own problems, but it does no one any good to draw a false equivalency between the two. In the current political environment the far right end of that spectrum is an existential threat to democracy.

But what do you think about the use of the left/right concept?

As I said, I think it is overused (paradigm lock alert) and people seem to be too uneducated (which is not the models fault per se, but it's dualistic nature leads to bipartisanship)

[Ima Freeman]

@sholomar Doesn't that boil down to collective ego?

[DocWatts]

3 hours ago, Ima Freeman said:

But what do you think about the use of the left/right concept?

As I said, I think it is overused (paradigm lock alert) and people seem to be too uneducated (which is not the models fault per se, but it's dualistic nature leads to bipartisanship)

When used with the understanding that it's a broad generalization (and not an actual substitute for political/ sociological literacy), it's perfectly adequate. Not as useful as something as spiral dynamics of course, but as a quick way of getting a rough sense of someone's worldview it serves well enough. The problem, as you point out, is people using the Left / Right political axis in an uninformed and uneducated way. But that's going to be a problem for just about any model that's made it way into the public sphere, it isn't unique to the Left-Right axis.

[itsadistraction]

On 20/06/2023 at 10:03 AM, sholomar said:

Do people here really think someone should be able to identify as a cat or a cow? I want to separate the sane leftists from the ones who would be better off institutionalized. I consider myself fairly moderate and tolerant, but so many policies seem like they're taking things to an extreme.  I do take pride in not aligning with any group of people, personally.  It makes you more prone to echo chamber thinking, hive mind mentality, and not being able to see someone else's point of view. I've tried to see the point of view of the cat identifiers, but I'm not getting it.  Call yourself whatever gender you want, but to me this smells of psychological grooming, not genetics or science.   "You need to go to a different school" "you need to have a proper educational conversion" ... pathetic really. If you don't support freedom of speech, I will stand against you to the end. Left or Right. 

I suggest not getting assimilated into any cult, and right now the woke is the "in thing" among the progressive establishment to try to assimilate people into.  Enough keeping quiet about it to remain polite, I'm going to call them out on it.

 

 

I personally think that trans is a stupid choice and weird BUT I 100% support the LGBTQ+++ movement. Why? Let me explain:

The trans issue is about being open minded. Who cares if I someone wants to walk down street or go to work dressed as a wizard or anything else?. If they do a good job then who cares? 

This is what the issue is about it's about open peoples minds and doing what we feel like doing and not following convention. 

It's similar to the hippies, they were  obviously wrong on ALOT of issues but they were necessary to raise social consciousness. Also the hippies were a backlash against the unsustainable, conservative, and closed minded thinking of the time. 

 

[Godhead]

@Ima Freeman Undoubtedly, research on a particular topic enables one to discern finer nuances. The distinction between the Left and the Right often remains superficial, but it serves a practical purpose when engaging in broad discussions and conducting preliminary political analyses.

 

On 20.6.2023 at 4:03 PM, sholomar said:

I consider myself fairly moderate and tolerant, but so many policies seem like they're taking things to an extreme.  I do take pride in not aligning with any group of people, personally.

Why do mfs who say that always share right-wing propaganda lmao. Idk what it is with Americans but you guys always have unbelievable confidence in the worst takes. 

[Basman]

The prolification of negative strawmanning is one of if not the worst side-effect of social media.

The stark divide between left and right today is to a degree due to media outlets wanting to better cater to certain demographics. In that process, making the "opposite" side look bad legitimizes the need for the identity group being sold. It is cathartic to see people with views you disagree with be "fought". 

The general trend today is "if you express different views as me, you are a bad person", often said in a shaming and otracizing way. Character assassination and thought terminating cliches are rife in modern discourse which leads to greater polarization as discussion devolves into shouting matches. More extremes views are being fronted as the middle curve is being eroded by this need to market ideas based on the invalidity of opposing groups. Social media thrives of hyperbole and sensationalism for attention and illicits a tribalistic response in people, which naturally breaks down complex topics into the black & white. That can be problematic when the issues themselves are beyound what a simple meme or tweet can express.

A lot of the points you see people make are simply parroted from somewhere else uncritically. there's a lack of critical thought and people simply want to "be right" instead of understand each other. This tribalistic mentallity is insufficient when we live in nations that hinge on the cooperation of a diverse array of people. There's no getting rid of the "leftist" or "right-wingers". You can only isolate yourself from them, which is basically what is happening online. Which is the futility of a polarized social media.

Marketing forces and sensationalist media are in large part responsible for why political discourse is divisive and B&W.