Magic/occult

[BojackHorseman]

I'm very drawn to this, I actually listen to some podcasts, read a few books...but I can never seem to start.

I don't know if I like the idea of being some kind of weird bookworm and being special more than actually practicing the various crafts that could be linked to...let's say chaos magick.

I think it's also hard for me to stick to ritualistic stuff as someone with ADHD/lacking patience in a way, also not liking relying on "greater forces" (I know all forms of magic might not do this, I'd just have to dig for which ones, b ut at the same time I feel like maybe you cannot give power to all of this if you just do quick things ?)

 

Do any of you practice this? Do you actually believe it influences reality around you?

Or is it just some kind of fancy self-motivation? If that's the case, why not just...motivate yourself in simpler ways?

Or is it just some kind of disguised philoshophy teachings?

 

Why do we (people that have some kind of faith in magic and other occult practices) feel like it's still logical to believe in this rather than acting like we do with other things, in a "Logical"/"rational" way? Shouldn't it be the work of some practictionners to show "proof" that all of this is not just a big roleplaying game/disguised philosophy/psychology?
Some people will probably say we don't know everything and science does not either. But in this case we can just suppose anything? What gives an old magic book more legitimacy that me believing there is a flying cat god observing us in the sky?

 

Please not that, as the beginning of my post says, I'm still actually fascinated by all of this. But the fact that I'm trying to tear it appart does not change this, on the contrary. It means that I care (otherwise clearly I'd also not talk about it here, I'd just laugh about how ridiculous practitionners are a self-centered materialistic forum)

 

To finish this post : if you know of any particulary interesting people discussing those subjects online in one form or another (can be woo woo I'm a fairy, or a more dry, skeptic approach), don't hesitate to share.

 

 

[Buck Edwards]

I'm a follower of Morgue Official. He is a good resource on the subject of occult. I think his thoughts are quite accurate on this subject matter, lucid and logically explained without making it too airy fairy. 

@BojackHorseman tell me what you think of the video. You'll gain some insight that will hopefully shed some light on your doubts and inhibitions. No woory, I'm in the same boat as you. Still searching, still discovering. 

I know this thing is hard to figure out especially for spiritualists but I'm all eyes and ears, I try not to be too skeptical of such things, they're intriguing to my mind. And who knows, right? 

I forgot, I've to re-follow this guy. Thanks for the topic, reminded me of what I left off. 

 

 

Side note-

It's called Magick(and not magic), slight correction.  have a good day. 

 

Another side note- my personal belief on the subject. 

Everything you believe is what you are. If you put enough energy into your belief, it will be true for you, might not be true for someone else simultaneously, but true for you. See how tricky your mind is? 

Your belief literally becomes your reality. Not objectively but at least subjectively, this is because the mind is hyper malleable, like a Styrofoam magnet, it will attract anything you make it to attract or repel. Laws of physics of magnetic forces.And quantum mechanics. 

Furthermore, look into the phenomenon of quantum entanglement and you'll be surprised how much of what we believe is coded already into the DNA of the universe. 

So what I think is that belief is a strong phenomenon just like a placebo//nacebo. 

Your belief can do wonders, of course within physical limits, that is. 

So you simply cannot take belief for granted. Some parallels to be drawn between the idea of magic and the idea of human intuition as well as human belief aka human mind itself. I find this very fascinating. 

How much of this is true can only be figured by the believer, not by anyone else outside the realm of experience. This experience belongs to the experiencer, as is pretty much the case with anything else. So you make of it whatever you do, depending on your experience obviously. 

That being said, once again, I think it's all about belief. And belief in of itself is a massive force. 

It's not so much about whether something is objectively true or false, it's how your belief alters your reality to your belief. 

 

I've read the book the Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton and it has changed my mind. I'd recommend it to you too. 

 

Bruce Lipton is my big favorite on this topic. 

 

And give this a watch too. 

 

I don't think it's so much about the occult. I see the occult as only an instrument. An instrument to be used for exploring. I think the hidden message lies in the human mind and it's deep processses of belief, psychic powers and intuition. You delve into the occult only to realize that the real mystery is your own mind, but you were searching so far out there. This also ties in with the law of attraction and Abraham /Esther Hicks is a good resource on this subject. 

 

Also there's many more good resources on similar lines that take you to the same or similar conclusions related to the law of attraction and self healing that you might want to take a minute to watch. 

Esther Hicks, Abraham Hicks, Wayne Dyer, Joe Dispenza. Neville Goddard. 

Joseph Murphy is my all time favorite on this topic. Similar lines. The power of the subconscious mind. This is the depth of western mysticism that has been delightful. 

 

 

 

The concept of vibration is also related to the same thing. Here's Abraham Hicks. 

 

 

Few years ago I read the book the Secret and it was mind blowing. I would recommend that too. 

 

 

May I recommend this audio book by Florence Scovel Shinn. 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Enlightement

[Buck Edwards]

 

@BojackHorseman I also have mad respect for human sciences man. 

I mean, I remember one day waking up in the middle of the night, feeling choked and realizing that I was gonna die. I was barely 16 years old. And my mind was the only thing that saved my life. Since then I have mad respect for the human mind and what's it's capable of doing. 

It ties into the whole basis of the occult. 

If you ever feel like you're dying, your mind is only your savior. Like Buddha said your mind a fucking garden you need to tend to. Take that and make of it what you will. 

And if something or someone is hurting you, go back, go back, to your own  mind. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Enlightement

[WeCome1]

7 hours ago, BojackHorseman said:

also not liking relying on "greater forces" (I know all forms of magic might not do this, I'd just have to dig for which ones, b ut at the same time I feel like maybe you cannot give power to all of this if you just do quick things ?)

Oh boy have I waited for this topic to come up. Basically, there are two types of ritualistic magic - one is placebo and the other one is that works. And, as soon as you come across anything that even remotely appears to work - you fucking STOP right this very second and never come back to this again, okay?

Way back in the day, I used to be in a group of extremely dedicated practitioners who took Carlos Castaneda's work as a literal manual (which it is, but that's besides the point). During those years, I got to know all kinds of weird people who practiced the second kind of magic (traditional folk magic, shamanism, occult, you name it) as well as guys with some really impressive supernatural abilities which I've witnessed first-hand.

The most important thing I learned from those interactions is that this stuff never comes for free. There is very little "impressive" magic stuff that you can do using only "your own" resources, and those usually drain very quickly, and your health/psyche gets damaged. What is usually the case is that you ask some external forces/entities to "do the work" or "lend you energy", in which case sky is the limit. BUT what folks rarely take into account is that those forces and entities are 1) predatory and 2) several orders of magnitude more intelligent and cunning than you can process. They are basically "energetic loan sharks" - and people enter into implicit contracts with them simply by practicing the rituals, and never read the fine print. There is all sorts of inorganic "wildlife" living around us "ready to help" or just passively feeding of the energy we are wasting.

So, what happens when you become "indebted" to those guys? Well, I've seen a guy's body getting possessed not by one, not by two, but by NINE entities simultaneously (they interacted with his family and went to the uni, while he himself was taking a backseat - and nobody noticed for some weeks). Another guy was tortured in his sleep for more than a year every single time - and it was one of the best lucid dreamers I've come across, but still couldn't do shit about that. Another one's body aged for 10-15 years in a span of a week and got a heart disease. Never mind all those "witches" who wanted to see the future to help people and are now cursed with the Cassandra's complex, I've known like three of those. Man, I could probably write a book on this topic.

So, basically - DON'T. Ritualistic magic is like a shitty closed-source software: it will own your ass and you will not even know it. Yeah, ultimately it's all just You/God playing pranks on itself, but good luck doing the liberation practices when "the relative you" is grabbed by the balls...

Edited June 17, 2023 by WeCome1

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@WeCome1 very true. 

[Leo Gura]

If I want magick I play Skyrim.

[Yimpa]

I just started learning how to do magic on myself. It’s fantasmical 

[mmKay]

Your day to day life are disowned magic spells

[_Archangel_]

@BojackHorseman so, let's begin

9 hours ago, BojackHorseman said:

think it's also hard for me to stick to ritualistic stuff as someone with ADHD/

Actually, if you have these kind problems, rituals should be easier for you to follow, because we can say that the practice of magick is a "meditation in motion", often requiring you to bounce from a place to another with attention.

 

9 hours ago, BojackHorseman said:

also not liking relying on "greater forces"

If deep down you know these "forces" are utlimately you, you won't have a problem dealing with them.
Also, not every type of magic deals with spirits and entities Es.: check "Advanced Magick for Beginners" by Alan Capman.

 

9 hours ago, BojackHorseman said:

Do any of you practice this? Do you actually believe it influences reality around you?

The path i'm following give you a ritual that doesn't involve entity, and it is used both fot spiritual and material attainment.
My statement was "way i be able to recieve 50€ by 18/05/23". I did recivie the money through a football bet and long due loan coming back.
The next day  i found 130€ on the ground of a metro station. It was the first time i did magic to obtain something a never found free money on the ground before, let alone so much.

So it definetly isn't just a motivation enchanter. But you also need "magical links" to make this procedures work.
Jeson Miller "The Elements of Spellcrafting" has been a good read recently, and it delves into these mechanics.

 

10 hours ago, BojackHorseman said:

Why do we (people that have some kind of faith in magic and other occult practices) feel like it's still logical to believe in this rather than acting like we do with other things, in a "Logical"/"rational" way? Shouldn't it be the work of some practictionners to show "proof" that all of this is not just a big roleplaying game/disguised philosophy/psychology?
Some people will probably say we don't know everything and science does not either. But in this case we can just suppose anything? What gives an old magic book more legitimacy that me believing there is a flying cat god observing us in the sky?

This is another misconception. Magick is actually highly logical, the problem is that at first it seems nonsensical because it deals with so many unknown factor, and it takes time to understand these factors. 
When i look at old books like Agrippas "Three Books of Occult Philosophy", i can't help but think this guy knew so much stuff we don't.
And if you know a bit of spirituality you also know that science is great but has it's dogmas as everything else.

 

10 hours ago, BojackHorseman said:

Please not that, as the beginning of my post says, I'm still actually fascinated by all of this. But the fact that I'm trying to tear it appart does not change this, on the contrary. It means that I care (otherwise clearly I'd also not talk about it here, I'd just laugh about how ridiculous practitionners are a self-centered materialistic forum)

 

To finish this post : if you know of any particulary interesting people discussing those subjects online in one form or another (can be woo woo I'm a fairy, or a more dry, skeptic approach), don't hesitate to share.

I see were you are caming from. That's me aswell. I've always tried to understand "how it works", but there so much confusing shit that makes it difficult for you to get an opinion of it. Skimming through though, there is good stuff.
All im going to share an overview of what the field has to offer. notice that magic functions both spiritual work and material attainment.
i'm avoiding super old stuff as is kind of hard to read (avoid Crowley at first).

Advanced Magick for Beginners by Alan Capman
The Elements of Spellcrafting by  Jeson Miller 
Financial Sorcery by  Jeson Miller 
High Magick by Damien Echols
Rituals by Damien Echols
Practical Sigil Magick by Frater UD
Kabbalah for Health and Wellness by Mark Stavish

You may also find important to learn the meaning and corrispondences between The Tree of Life, The Planets and The Zodiac Signs

-------

In video format, search into these two channels and you will have a good overview of what magick is and what it can do.

 

 

[_Archangel_]

@WeCome1 Dealing with any kind of altered state of conscousness can create problems, but with the right amount of cationusness you can keep them at bay. You just have to take baby steps, use protections and have some kind of failsafe.

Furthermore, Magic doesn't always require spirit work.

[WeCome1]

46 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

but with the right amount of cationusness you can keep them at bay. You just have to take baby steps, use protections and have some kind of failsafe.

Nope. Once again: everything that's "safe" - is placebo, and so isn't worth the time at all; and everything that "works" - is such a Russian roulette that the risk/return ratio also makes it not worth the time; if it gave the guys I mentioned above a hard time - then nobody on this forum simply doesn't stand a chance in case things go south. Besides, it was always beyond my comprehension why tf would anybody even bother with magic - when Self-realization path is known and widely available - I mean, it is literally trading a mountain of gold for seashells. So, you see, any way you spin it - it's a waste of time.

[Pudgey]

Magic, occultism, spells or any form of witchcraft is nothing compared to a typical DMT / Ayahuasca trip. 

It's actually a joke. 

[WeCome1]

36 minutes ago, Benton said:

You are wrong. And don’t know as much about magick as you think. Neither do your friends.

Wellp, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I did not mean my previous post as an offence or a personal attack on anybody - I've just seen some next level discipline, competence and dedication in this domain and the tangible results it brings - as well as the danger. Yet here we are, enabling BojackHorseman, who is obviously clueless about all of this, to "just take it slow". Oh well, everybody needs a hobby, I suppose.

[_Archangel_]

@WeCome1 literally every thing you said is incorrect and stems from  a lack of knowledge, but hey, keep your opinion and attitude.
Taking Castaneda's books to the letter is already a signal you were doing thing wrong.
And Nothings gonna change the fact that there are safe ways to do it and they work.

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

• Only the prepared can recieve higher initiations. Focus on what's within your experience, at your level. 

[Yimpa]

16 hours ago, BojackHorseman said:

Or is it just some kind of fancy self-motivation? If that's the case, why not just...motivate yourself in simpler ways?

Perspective is the reason. If you’re motivating yourself from a limited perspective, it’s like trying to push a mountain with your bare hands. 

With that said, don’t turn magic, aliens, psychic abilities, etc. into a dogma. In fact, you’ll understand all this stuff deeper when you approach it from a state of not absolutely knowing. 

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Perspective is the reason. If you’re motivating yourself from a limited perspective, it’s like trying to push a mountain with your bare hands. 

With that said, don’t turn magic, aliens, psychic abilities, etc. into a dogma. In fact, you’ll understand all this stuff deeper when you approach it from a state of not absolutely knowing. 

Get to lesson 33 of J.c S- KSR plus ennimo nemis' kriya yoga synthesis 2023 EDITION(NOT THE OLDER ONES), before diving into the occult.

Reach a state of Absolute Knowing and you will tangibly grasp the intangible.

[BojackHorseman]

On 17/06/2023 at 8:42 AM, Leo Gura said:

If I want magick I play Skyrim.

I think I recall you saying you believed in ESP or something like that?

(I might be wrong, I have a terrible memory)
Do you think those are different from magic?

I'm wondering, if both exist, if they're using the same "energy". If both would come from us only in the end.

Nobody knows I guess.


Also thanks everyone for the sources and thought material! Could watch everything yet but lots of interesting things.