My definition of enlightenment

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There are other teachers who use the word "God consciousness", and it's treated as a transitory stage between lower levels of non-dual realization to more complete levels. They think Leo is just stuck in a loop jumping in and out of God consciousness with 5-MeO. But I think 5-MeO could be qualitatively different and lead to different outcomes than sober God consciousness (although the concept of reactivations could question this idea).

Agree .God-Consciousness is a state of awareness. It is an ever-evolving process. You cannot just read it in a book. You must experience it. I haven't experienced it myself. And I don't doubt that Leo has experienced it in his trips . But I think since consciousness/reality /existence is infinite ..then all we are doing with these endless chasing of mystical states is chasing our tail . 

"An absolute truth I'm an infinite reality "..do you see any flaw in this line ?

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yet there is a difference between abiding in it 90% of the time and 1% of the time. The first one we can refer to as having it as a baseline, the second one we can refer to as experiencing it as a transient state.

 

You are actually abiding as it 100% of the time . Again the message here is that there is nothing that needs to happen.  You are already what you eternally are .

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I've been in non-human states where I had no body, no thoughts, no space, no time. Being human is not what I am fundamentally. Fundamentally, I am consciousness. But is consciousness then not a state? It's tricky, because consciousness is simultaneously constant while also cloaking itself in various fleeting states. Consciousness is the stateless container of states.

Exactly. It's slippery. You can't grab hold of it.  Once you think you've got it  ..rest assured that you're wrong ?

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I've argued many times that there are many problems with the type of spirituality most people are familiar with in the West today, and that several core aspects of religion address these problems quite effectively. I don't think people really dislike religion as a concept, but they see the various examples of historical corruption and survival-based incentives that co-opt religion into something ugly, and they attribute that to religion as a whole.

I believe that I was irresposible with how I practiced meditation in an immature phase of my life, and that this could've been avoided if I had people around me that knew what spirituality even is and could provide guidance and wisdom. Preferably, everybody should have access to a teacher in their local community (a "priest") that your family can refer you to if you're considering the spiritual path. These priests should be well-versed in a deep and rich tradition containing practices and knowledge for how to engage in the spiritual process safely. You can already get these benefits by actually joining a religious community or enrolling in a monastery, but again, most people in the West are not aware of why that might be a wise thing to do, which is what I would like to see change.

Great idea ?. 

[UnbornTao]

Becoming deeply conscious of an absolute aspect of existence, such as you, Now, and space. 

[Someone here]

18 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Becoming deeply conscious of an absolute aspect of existence, such as you, Now, and space. 

It's not enough to be "Deeply " Conscious.  You have to be 10000% Conscious. If there is a Trace of a Doubt in you about who you fundamentally are then that's not enlightenment.  

Also ..There is only one Absolute. No different Absolutes. The Absolute is the Now .

[ivankiss]

Yeah, no...

I may not know what it is, but I know what it isn't 

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Yeah, no...

I may not know what it is, but I know what it isn't 

What is "it "? What are you referring to ? Enlightenment? 

[Javfly33]

I hate making conclusions, but If I had to take a guess, enlightment would be when there is no trace of a "personal" feeling in your Experience.

 

Think how profound that is. Notice that for your experience to be personal, the existence of "other" beings as people that are not You, must exist.

 

Non duality: One Being Here 

 

 

[ivankiss]

@Someone here Yes. I do not agree it is about realizing that you don't know anything, etc. That is only a facet of awakening - if anything.

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I hate making conclusions, but If I had to take a guess, enlightment would be when there is no trace of a "personal" feeling in your Experience

So basically the typical no self aspect ? Do you think that's all there is to enlightenment? 

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Think how profound that is. Notice that for your experience to be personal, the existence of "other" beings as people that are not You, must exist.

 

Non duality: One Being Here

I would say from the absolute perspective there are no others and there is no "you " it's all one undivided undifferentiated field of isness . We make artificial boundaries.  However..from the relative perspective there is certainly you and others .if you claim otherwise...then you are either enlightened or insane .

10 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Someone here Yes. I do not agree it is about realizing that you don't know anything, etc. That is only a facet of awakening - if anything.

Yes it's just one facet .I mentioned other facets in OP.

But since you disagree with this facet...let's discuss this :.

What do you know?  Do you know what reality is ?do you know how we all got here ?Do you know what the fuck is happening right now ?be honest.  Do you know what anything is or do you just give it a name and call it a day ?

Of course I'm aware of the paradoxical nature of this claim .(to claim you know nothing you must know that you don't know which is a contradiction ).

But I'm pointing to something entirely beyond the logical mind .you must experience profound states of not knowing for yourself to understand what that means .

[Javfly33]

 

@Someone here

Quote

However..from the relative perspective there is certainly you and others

Maybe There is no relative perspective xDD That's what I´m trying to say...

Where is this 'you' that you say it 'certainly exists' in the 'relative' perspective?

What is the 'relative' perspective?

 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

 

@Someone here

Maybe There is no relative perspective xDD That's what I´m trying to say...

Where is this 'you' that you say it 'certainly exists' in the 'relative' perspective?

What is the 'relative' perspective?

 

Relative means its only true with respect to certain factors .it's only partially true .

Absolute means its true under all conditions and doesn't change .

So relative to there being a blue rock orbiting around the sun with 8 billion human beings living on it ..there are "people " or "selves " like "you" and "me ". If you ask me to point to it ..I would just point to the physical body .that's what defines "you ". 

But from the absolute perspective these boundaries get dissolved and all that is left is a sea of consciousness without divisions.

[Javfly33]

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Relative means its only true with respect to certain factors .it's only partially true .

Absolute means its true under all conditions and doesn't change .

So relative to there being a blue rock orbiting around the sun with 8 billion human beings living on it ..there are "people " or "selves " like "you" and "me ". If you ask me to point to it ..I would just point to the physical body .that's what defines "you ". 

But from the absolute perspective these boundaries get dissolved and all that is left is a sea of consciousness without divisions.

If Enlightment is Truth, it is Truth always.

If the Truth is that there are no relative perspectives, there weren't ever relative perspectives.

But, the belief, thought, feeling or sensation that there are relative perspectives, a self, a pov, or an 'I', that definetely can 'exist' within Truth.

But it exists as an illusion, is not really real.

But I´m just insane, don't believe me ?‍?

Quote

I would just point to the physical body .that's what defines "you ". 

@Someone here So actually you don't know who you are right now. You are just 'pointing' to stuff, 'hoping', or 'guessing' that that's who you are.

You are OK with assuming, guessing, identifying with something, like the body. Enlightment can never happen if you confuse guessing, hoping, 'seeming like true' with actual Clarity, actual Awakening. 

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

So actually you don't know who you are right now.

No one knows anything about anything. Trust me on that one .

[Javfly33]

30 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No one knows anything about anything. Trust me on that one .

there is a possibility to know, but its not psychological or linguistic knowing 

[Javfly33]

the ego has corrupted part of Love, Truth, Eternal Nothing, and has call it ' my pov, my perception'.

Remove ego, Truth/Love/Enlightment will be left. 

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

there is a possibility to know, but its not psychological or linguistic knowing

We could call it being? To know something you must be it ?

[Loveeee]

[Javfly33]

31 minutes ago, Someone here said:

We could call it being? To know something you must be it ?

Yes sirrr

16 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

?? @Loveeee Awesome 

[UnbornTao]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:40 PM, Someone here said:

It's not enough to be "Deeply " Conscious.  You have to be 10000% Conscious. If there is a Trace of a Doubt in you about who you fundamentally are then that's not enlightenment.  

Also ..There is only one Absolute. No different Absolutes. The Absolute is the Now .

It's enough to become conscious, as that is called an enlightenment. From what I've heard, they can vary in "degrees", but a shallow enlightenment is still an enlightenment. 

Usually one becomes conscious partially, and not completely, say, about who you are. This doesn't mean you're conscious of the nature of now, space, what you are, existence, and "other absolutes". This may be paradoxical.

In other words, realizing who and what you are means you're clear on what those are but confusion and ignorance can still be present since there's more stuff to become conscious of -- now, space, etc., which are also "absolute". 

It's entertaining to speculate and have these debates,  but we're talking out of our ass. Until we ourselves grasp everything, there's more work to do.

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

It's enough to become conscious, as that is called an enlightenment. From what I've heard, they can vary in "degrees", but a shallow enlightenment is still an enlightenment. 

Usually one becomes conscious partially, and not completely, say, about who you are. This doesn't mean you're conscious of the nature of now, space, what you are, existence, and "other absolutes". This may be paradoxical.

In other words, realizing who and what you are means you're clear on what those are but confusion and ignorance can still be present since there's more stuff to become conscious of -- now, space, etc., which are also "absolute". 

It's entertaining to speculate and have these debates,  but we're talking out of our ass. Until we ourselves grasp everything, there's more work to do.

Well..I'm certainly not talking out of my ass . Not sure about you .

There Is no "work ' required also .

Enlightenment is the simplest and most basic thing imaginable. It's so simple.that people completely overlook it even after years of meditating and practice. They overlook it because they're searching for some grand attainment or realization.. an experience of cosmic bliss and oneness.. something that seems worthy of all the "work" they've put in to trying to find it.

Enlightenment is awareness recognizing itself. That's it..being aware of being aware.

[Breakingthewall]

52 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Enlightenment is awareness recognizing itself. That's it..being aware of being aware.

On 18/6/2023 at 5:14 PM, Someone here said:

 

I think it's more like be completely open to this moment, for this you have to understand and overcome fear. there are many barriers made of fear that prevent us from being fully open and aware now.