Is All Actualization About Optimizing Pleasure?

[Alex K]

@Nahm 

- Fire being hot is not something I'm thinking about when asking help about actualization.

- Expansion is your term, I've used it loosely to mean any self improvement work.

- Leo, buddism, advaita vedanta all say desire is egoic and cause of sufferig. Desire is literaly our likes and dislikes, nothing more. We do not desire food, water, etc., we have a normal part-of-our-body mechanisms - feelings of hunger, thirst etc. They are not desires. Senses, emotions, feelings are not desires.

When we like self actualization concept, we like to "expand and enrich our inner self" - this is ego talking, this is desire, longing, attachement - suffering. Leo calls this  modern people like Leo call it "spiritual ego", I like the term "Falling into delight".

And "Monkey mind" is a simplification. There is a mind which creates thoughts - it will always be there, it is a part of our body like an arm or leg, it is an executive associative processing of information. You can shut it down like any mechanism, but it will always be there and resume. "Monkey" are our mind dysfunctionalities, "imperfections" or "issues" - call it however you want - those could be cleansed/repaired/removed so that our mind functions properly.

Monkey does not worry. Worry is an emotion, it is created by thought. Thought is "played" by your randomized associative thoughts processor - mind/monkey mind. But this thought is stored as a like/dislike - a negative or positive desire, which could be removed via contemplation, psychotherapy, etc. 

All the differnece between sane people come from this mountains of stored likes and dislikes, some randomly acquired skills and physical body/brain variations. Behind that all people are the same cutting little obvious presense, which would reveal itself to be part of global nothing (or everything) at the point of enlightenment.

I guess my question after all this is - when it seems there is no more suffering, would I just wait a couple of days/years and my level of suffering radar would adjust and I'll have natural motivation once again?

Edited March 19, 2017 by Alex K

[Nahm]

@Alex K You only have to be ok with now. It will only ever be now. If you need to eat differently and excercise, minimize the big picture to 1 or 2 tasks you can do right now. Perhaps plan it out now.           Thinking about the future, or years from now is a slippery slope and this is where suffering enters the pictures. However, the answer is yes. I was very overweight 25 years ago, taking multiple depressions meds, terrible attitude, nothing helped and I made it worse by shitting on people who tried to help me. Then I started excercising and eating healthy, got in great shape and then very easily had a great attitude and outlook. I have never taken a medication since. So again, YES, the default, or baseline, or typical outlook / mode / attitude is drastically better. So much better in fact, that I couldn't have possibly comprehended it from where I was back then. The question about pleasure....no offense, but do you really care? Just start. Make how you feel the most important thing. Commit to it now. Down the road you will see there is a world of pleasures right in front of you that you never knew existed. Godspeed! If I can be of any help, you know where to find me!   

 

[Alex K]

@Nahm Amen.

I care that I suddenly care when I usually dont care, but I care to care less and less. I am uncertain and inbetween. But its okay I guess here on the path.

See you out there. Q.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Alex K

[Alex K]

Specifics of an issue doesnt matter. What matters is a what to a why. E.g., if someone appeals to self evident nature of a why as in do not do X, then please provide a what - an action/experience the student to have/perform so that he has a realization. Otherwise how would it work? Are we back to "luck"? Are we talking quantum physics already? Or is salvation an eugenics based art?

Edited March 19, 2017 by Alex K

[Leo Gura]

Contemplate this: All pleasure ends. Then you're fucked. Unless...

[Nahm]

you can do pleasurable things now, and after.  It's the way you look at it that will change. 

 

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

@Nahm what a fucking badass! I want him for president