I hate myself because I want vagina

[Tenebroso]

You have to let go of your morality a little bit to give yourself a chance to experience certain things like sex and see that there is nothing wrong with sex and even lust. Until you get over that mental block you won't grow and evolve as well as you can. Unless you are willing to become like a monk or live like St Francis Assisi you will need to face the reality of sex and come to terms with your desires with no shame and judgement. I think a lot of young men are dealing with this mental block, explains a lot of the issues today. Let go of the idea of being a good, moral person and think more wholistically and you will see there is a place for lust, desire, sex and all manner of so called bad things.

[Sugarcoat]

Do you seriously believe you will be able to become some ultra actualized spiritual person who changes the world when you cannot even deal with one of the most basic human desires?
 

you are deeply confused about what is the cause of your “incompetence”

[Chives99]

MDMA showed me unconditional self-love, if you dont love yourself exactly as you are without the need to change anything you will never attract anyone because you have defiency mindset, ie I need something from you to be complete or good enough, instead detach yourself from approval and peoples opinions, focus on giving so you arent thinking about yourself, loving yourself and loving others is the same thing, when you feel good enough, when you see your own self- worth then you have nothing but to give to other people and they will vibe with that and thinking i can build something with this guy thats bigger than the 2 of us.

[trenton]

All of you are right about the man I used to be.

A lot of childhood trauma is coming up and is a lot. I talked to the therapist and my doctor. It was intense.

The reason I hated myself so much was because I would rather die than be like my father. I was so afraid of being like my father that it prevented me from developing parental instincts. I now feel like they are starting to come online. I want to be a better dad than dad. Its intense.

But yes, I want vagina. I am staying productive despite my complete emotional wreck. It is just so much to take in.

[UnbornTao]

On 6/12/2023 at 1:41 AM, Carl-Richard said:

You can drop them at some point, but then you have to truly see their insignificance at a deep level. I don't believe there is such a thing as dropping something before you reach that point. Before that, you can only delude yourself that you've dropped it, but in reality you're dragging it behind you and letting it wear you down. You should rather pick it up and carry it with pride until you see the finish line. And before that happens, it's possible to carry both ideals and desires at the same time. You just need to balance them.

ideal:

• conceived as perfect; existing only in idea

It seems to me that this domain of ideals can be relatively easy to recognize. Realize what you're doing --idealizing--, then drop it. You can get rid of fantasies without the need for a long and excruciating process. This would save unnecessary suffering down the line. In this context, pride is unnecessary -- as well as ideals. That doesn't mean lacking life goals, being irresponsible and complacent, etc.; it just means being free of the conceptual activity that is fantasizing. I imagine that doing this would allow for increased effectiveness as you'd be operating from a grounded standpoint, not fantasy.

Edited June 19, 2023 by UnbornTao

[trenton]

Important observation

I am afraid of vagina because I love it so much that I'm afraid of doing something stupid. I have a hard time trusting myself not to do something stupid. I am struggling with this intense fear. I can tell that it impedes my judgement and it terrifies me. It causes me such a  headache that I am struggling with so much. I'm trying to trust myself and to overcome these feelings, but I find it so difficult. I am trying to trust myself not to do something stupid, but it is so hard.

[trenton]

It's so intense that I'm hyper ventilating just thinking about it. I'm slowly getting a hold of myself. It is tough, but I I'm sure I can do it. It's so hard. I'm afraid of not begin able to control myself as I fail to wear a condom and cause something bad to happen.

I'm so scared that people think I'm gay. I was bullied at school as the kids called me a fa*****. My dad threatened to disown me if I were gay. My grandma was worried that I wanted to have sex with men as she preached the bible and told me how horrible sex with other men would be. My mom thought I was gay. My sisters thought I was gay.

It's just so hard to get over the fear of how women could cause me to act. I think women make it very tempting for men to act stupid. I want to maintain judgement rather than losing it. It's so hard, but I am slowly finding the balance to keep myself in control. I'm scared, but I know that this fear is just the emotions connected to a thought. I can do this. I want to be a man.

[Raze]

5 hours ago, trenton said:

It's so intense that I'm hyper ventilating just thinking about it. I'm slowly getting a hold of myself. It is tough, but I I'm sure I can do it. It's so hard. I'm afraid of not begin able to control myself as I fail to wear a condom and cause something bad to happen.

I'm so scared that people think I'm gay. I was bullied at school as the kids called me a fa*****. My dad threatened to disown me if I were gay. My grandma was worried that I wanted to have sex with men as she preached the bible and told me how horrible sex with other men would be. My mom thought I was gay. My sisters thought I was gay.

It's just so hard to get over the fear of how women could cause me to act. I think women make it very tempting for men to act stupid. I want to maintain judgement rather than losing it. It's so hard, but I am slowly finding the balance to keep myself in control. I'm scared, but I know that this fear is just the emotions connected to a thought. I can do this. I want to be a man.

Did you apply the book and videos I sent you? 

[trenton]

@Raze if you are referring to the OCD book, then no. I instead started using OCD videos and they were helpful at first. I stopped watching the videos once I started taking anti depressants designed to help with OCD. The doctor told me to stop taking the anti depressants because I was experiencing increased feelings of sadness. This is my first day without the pills and I feel anxious. I am changing again and I don't understand what's happening.

[Sugarcoat]

I’m pretty damn sure I am autistic myself (although a woman) by research and experience.  I relate deeply to you regarding this fear of losing control because of this sexual desire taking over or something 

While it hasn’t solved fully for me. I can say that this desire isn’t some dangerous  force that is trying to make you go out there and do shit you don’t want. That might be the mental fantasies associated with the desires - but those mental fantasies don’t reflect that desire itself - but rather they are kind of some attempt of releasing this sexual energy.

In the same way a person who feels socially awkward and constricted in their social expression - they might have these fantasies of these ridiculous social scenarios where they are being social and charismatic as their ideal self  - doesn’t mean that is what they actually wanna do and will do.  Just when we have this energy stuck inside it can seem way more intense than it is 
 

you don’t HAVE to have “vagina” to release some of that sexual energy and feel some relief from this . Sure in the long run you want to have real sex sooner or later but there is no need to rush it . 
 

It is possible to release some of this sexual energy alone with yourself and your own body too. It doesn’t have to be masturbation necessarily but for example allowing yourself to entertain fantasies without holding back there, moving your body different ways along with this. You can play around with it, or it might happen spontaneously when you are alone or in another context that feels safe (in the same way someone might start compulsively talking to themselves when alone and imagining company as a way to try release this need for social expresssion  ) . It might sound like this cannot work as some partial temporary relief but it can if you allow it to flow more and stop resisting it. 

 

OR another way to go about this (this I did in the past,  the former - “going with the flow “-  has been what I’ve been getting in touch with recently) is to work so concentrated and hard for this ideal self you wanna be that you genuinely gain enough reward from progressing along this path that the reward is enough to satisfy you so these sexual desires stop feeling like some insatiable hunger. Your mind is essentially intensely concentrated on this “pursuit of ideal” rather than those desires , and is gaining rewards from this progression 

Along this path you still want to release some of that sexual energy slowly and gradually in comfortable doses, alone or with others, some way or another  - so just as @Carl-Richard said here in this thread - it is possible to hold and entertain ideals and desires simultaneously. 

People might say accept yourself and stuff like that, and for sure it can resonate but for some of us in some time of our life it doesn’t really. Instead, you can notice how all these negative feelings and negative self image you are having - there is actually a deep intelligence to this. This negativity is trying to “contain you”. It is serving a purpose, it isn’t actually that negative. You can use this “negativity” to FUEL this “pursuit of ideal” and go for it more aggressively and keep and keep accelerating and intensifying your effort. It can be extremely rewarding . 
 

You can ask yourself also: 

If, right now, you were your ideal self, exactly that ideal you want to be, would you then have problems with these desires? 

If not, that could give you a clue to that you don’t actually have problems with these desires —  but rather with your SELF. 
(this self you hate isn’t really you tho but that’s for another day lol)

Edited June 14, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[trenton]

21 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

@Sugarcoat your entire post described me very accurately. I constantly imagined myself as very social and charismatic because I hated myself and I think I can't do it. I fail all the time even though I'm trying to be good. It is so fucking painful.

People tell me to accept myself, but they don't accept me because I hurt them without wanting to. It is fucking painful and it makes me hate myself. I want to be different, but I can't. It hurts.

[trenton]

21 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

If not, that could give you a clue to that you don’t actually have problems with these desires —  but rather with your SELF. 

(this self you hate isn’t really you tho but that’s for another day lol)

I get the message, but if it doesn't change my life then it quickly devolves into dogmatism. This entire forum is dogmatic about Leo's perspective already. We use spiral dynamics all the time. We stress the truth of no self or the truth of God all the time even though most of us never realized it. All of this could easily be turned into another religion and many of us are in denial that spirituality is not working despite Leo's best efforts to be good.

[trenton]

My grandma's vagina is fucking disgusting. It was fucking disgusting. It has hairs growing off like a penis. Somehow she didn't realize I saw her by accident. And he thought I was gay. she told me men don't lie with men, but really it's her vagina that's fucking disgusting. I don't have a problem with vaginas in genral, just not hers.

[UnbornTao]

You sound neurotic. Calm down, no need to beat oneself up. I think it's useful to start with self-honesty. What are you really saying?

It sounds to me like you're simply expressing a desire for sex, and you think that that is a bad thing, and are perhaps afraid of the consequences of letting that drive loose and unchecked.

Get at the root of the assumption and recognize it as what it is -- a belief. If it's a disempowering idea, you can drop it -- that is, you stop operating from the assumption, you're free from it, you stop thinking that it's "true."

Edited June 16, 2023 by UnbornTao

[trenton]

@UnbornTao I'm afraid that my desire for sex will cause me to do something stupid. I love women so much that they impede my judgement, so I want to avoid them. I'm scared of being overwhelmed by love.

It's not sex that I think is bad. It's the stupid things that my desire for sex could cause me to do. It scares me.

[UnbornTao]

14 hours ago, trenton said:

@UnbornTao I'm afraid that my desire for sex will cause me to do something stupid. I love women so much that they impede my judgement, so I want to avoid them. I'm scared of being overwhelmed by love.

It's not sex that I think is bad. It's the stupid things that my desire for sex could cause me to do. It scares me.

You seem to hold yourself as the effect of your drive and so unable to be held accountable for it. You think that it overpowers you, and that you have no control nor responsibility in the matter. This isn't true.

Consider that adult humans are by nature sex-craving apes. And yet individuals in our culture mostly control their drive, either by masturbating, engaging in healthy sex, exercising, channeling their attention and energy on a life purpose, being entertained, etc. 

And again, be more honest and rigorous with yourself: do you really love women, or do you love the fact that they can potentially provide you with sex? I don't think you're afraid of being overwhelmed by love. Just stop overthinking and relax.

I think that when someone is horny and needy, he should get his needs met in a healthy, conscious way. Watch Leo's episode called Burning Through Your Karma. That may help.

[Ulax]

@trenton  I'd recommend considering giving gestalt therapy or IFS therapy a go, if finances allow

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ulax

[Sugarcoat]

On 2023-06-15 at 8:59 PM, trenton said:

@Sugarcoat your entire post described me very accurately. I constantly imagined myself as very social and charismatic because I hated myself and I think I can't do it. I fail all the time even though I'm trying to be good. It is so fucking painful.

People tell me to accept myself, but they don't accept me because I hurt them without wanting to. It is fucking painful and it makes me hate myself. I want to be different, but I can't. It hurts.

Throughout this thread you seem very stressed. Back in high school when I had social anxiety I used to meditate upwards an hour a day and it helps to calm the body down. Mental battle can create tension in the body that then perpetuates this mental battle even more so it’s like a bad loop. Sometimes it doesn’t really work that well to try to calm thoughts mentally so going more into our bodies can help. a good start.

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

On 2023-06-15 at 9:03 PM, trenton said:

I get the message, but if it doesn't change my life then it quickly devolves into dogmatism. This entire forum is dogmatic about Leo's perspective already. We use spiral dynamics all the time. We stress the truth of no self or the truth of God all the time even though most of us never realized it. All of this could easily be turned into another religion and many of us are in denial that spirituality is not working despite Leo's best efforts to be good.

In my opinion this is actually very wise of you to be able to notice this. You’re smarter than you thing. A lot of people don’t see this.  You’re more in touch with yourself and your own mental patterns in a way than a lot of these people. 
 

I did spirituality in the past because I was naturally drawn to it but I never strived for awakening. It doesn’t really make sense to me to strive for it when people over and over say “there’s nothing to get” etc. You want to end this pain you have and “awakening” isn’t necessary for that, nor who said it will be gone then? You can have a positive life and sense of self without that, which is what you want in a way. Or do both. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Applegarden8]

Yeah man, it's hard. Especially when you have no experience with women, like me. I once met a girl who was a jazz singer. I really wanted to help with her musicianship, because I thought she would kill it if she found a way to record music and release it over the internet, and she would have a reliable medium to be engaged in practicing/recording, probably, for the rest of her life, not even talking about the things she can already do and organize regarding music. I noticed that we clicked, but basically I was too slow and at the same time too clingy for her.  She was very attractive and I just really enjoyed her company, but i primarily wanted to help her in her music. I wish that she is doing well though. Let me say this. As much as I do not want a relationship, she really made me primarily want her. She made me feel like I have to lead her. I do not remember that any other woman has made me feel like that. It was interesting, and I still think about her from time to time. But I know that I will never meet her and it's fine I guess, even if she wanted to. I do not think that it's hard for her to find a mate. But here I am, desireful for somebody that does not care about me whatsoever. And this is most of our case (i am talking about single men who *can't get it* and have to put in a lot of work to get the kind of quality women you desire). Well the desire for companionship and sex. Ahh, the very root of most of the problem that a man will deal with. And society supports this delusion that you are not a complete being by yourself somehow. That is why it's so hard.