Why meditation doesn’t work

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Giving apes language... 

I’m neurodivergent and was dead silent in my toddler years. 

Damn society fucked me in the ass by conforming me to their standards years later 

Now I’m realizing that I create all societies 

[Sugarcoat]

11 hours ago, Giulio Bevilacqua said:

Meditation does not work for most people because it’s not something you do . You can’t do meditation 

I like that point 

[Sugarcoat]

11 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

t works.  You just can't seek enlightenment it has to surprise the ego

People seem to experience that they can  tho -  that’s the part I’m trying to poke holes at here. I’m trying to say that you can seek anything but enlightenment , not that I know what it is, which is exactly my point, as anything we seek is something we have somewhat defined and thus ~know~ what it is 

You say : 

 “It's just that most people don't because they are stuck tightly to the dream.  They have survival needs and they only care about surviving in this dream as the self. “

 Is it anything a self has ever done that isn’t exactly this? You seem to suggest most people are like this- and then there are a few of us that aren’t and thus are able to awaken. 

All selves ever only know dream and survival. A self cannot try to end itself as that’s just it trying to know the end of itself. It’s a desire for ~something ~ masquerading as desire for nothing.
 

 This kind of rhetoric evokes an attempt in people to try to end this “survival game”. But that is also the survival game. Trying to get out by the same means you are in it in the first place. 
 

How can I say this. I’m trying to communicate something. Basically. You won’t loose anything by engaging in this dream, because you’re already doing it and it is the only thing you can do. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I’m neurodivergent and was dead silent in my toddler years. 

Damn society fucked me in the ass by conforming me to their standards years later 

Now I’m realizing that I create all societies 

I remember I had trouble pronouncing some select words when I was like 3-4 years old, and I thought I had a speech impediment, but then I noticed I was in fact overly "enunciate" (if that is a word) in my early teen years compared to my peers, but then I became sloppy again when I became a stoner in my late teens, and then I became somewhat better in my early twenties during my spiritual awakenings, and now it's bad again 

[Moksha]

13 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

A self cannot try to end itself as that’s just it trying to know the end of itself. It’s a desire for ~something ~ masquerading as desire for nothing.

It's true that the mind has a deeply programmed survival instinct. Despite that, it is a supercomputer with capacity beyond what most people realize. Chat GPT 4.0, even the paid version, doesn't come close.

Every decision the mind makes is the result of a satisficing formula that it runs, with each variable weighted based on its current evaluation of reality. This weighting is the result of biological and social conditioning, which continuously evolves.

For many, the formula is built entirely on external variables. What will pursuing x, y, and z do to contribute to my survival and well-being?

Awakening becomes possible when the mind realizes that every formula it has used to this point has actually been detrimental, rather than fulfilling. It becomes necessary to modify the formula, in order to free itself from the suffering state.

The absolute can't use the mind to directly realize itself, but it can leverage the remarkable subtractive capacity of the mind to realize what it is not. This begins the process of elimination. 

I am not the body.

I am not thoughts.

I am not feelings.

I am not perceptions, sensations, or experiences.

I am not memories or anticipations.

I am not desires or fears.

The neti neti journey applies the remarkable power of the mind to guide the absolute to the inner gate of itself. It is as far as the mind can go, but still, what a triumph.

Here, in the shadow of the gateless gate, spiritual practice helps to sink awareness into the ocean of its essence. Meditation, contemplation, and inner inquiry gradually distance awareness from the external, and draw awareness deeper into itself. Identification with the external is surrendered as identification with the internal is increased.

Often this is a long and painful process, of relinquishing cherished beliefs and fears. Awareness spirals itself deeper, into the dark night of the soul, which is terrifying to the remnant of the self, but is necessary to create the cataclysmic will to finally let go. It only becomes possible when it is realized that letting go will actually set you free.

Even then, surrender alone is insufficient to propel awareness through the inner gate. There is still too much conditioning, a lifetime of attachments which block the spiritual passage, and cannot be dissolved by will alone. It is only by the light of absolute grace, on the other side of the gate, that these attachments gradually dissolve, until the sliver expression of the absolute is finally refined enough to fit through the gate to itself.

This reunion is entirely lifechanging. The dream continues, but awareness is no longer at the mercy of experience. It clearly sees that everything arising and dissolving is its own essence, in this penultimate adventure within its imagination. It's not over yet, not until love and light have poured through the portal of this perspective, cascading through its cosmos, helping the absolute continue awakening to itself.

[Sugarcoat]

12 hours ago, _Archangel_ said:

i don't know what you what you mean by "enlightenment is nothing", i never wrote that. 
I would say that enlightenment is a change in the context of existence that is usually preceded by some kind of activities 

if you desire enlightenment - like you seem to do - doesn’t that mean that you sense there is something desirable about it to you?

what is desirable about a “change in the context of existence”?

it’s almost as if you are missing something to your definition of it.
 

Isn’t the first step to getting what you want, knowing what you want?

You say :

“Nontheless, a clear and present state of mind is certainly mere conductive to awakening then being drunk for example.“

if you attain a clear and present state of mind - doesn’t any desire for something to come as a result of it disrupt this very state? It’s almost paradoxical then 

 

[Sugarcoat]

12 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

Picture of Mother Divine in Kali form, dancing on poor Shiva lying helplessly on the ground is not some metaphysical metaphor. Female Energy is a Dancing Chaos of Fire and Desire. All good although quite tough to comprehend sometimes if not impossible at all???

I keep mentioning desire over and over again so you’re def onto something here 

[Sugarcoat]

9 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Whether it works or not depends on the purpose for why it's taken up in the first place.

Meditation is about healing and calming the mind, not becoming conscious. Two different pursuits. Meditation works for its purpose.

i agree with this

[SOUL]

Doesn't work for what?

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Doesn't work for what?

this post was mainly humorous for me. But I mean for what a lot of people here call “enlightenment “

 

 

[SOUL]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

this post was mainly humorous for me. But I mean for what a lot of people here call “enlightenment “

Nothing works for enlightenment...contemplate that.

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, SOUL said:

Nothing works for enlightenment...contemplate that.

And the point of this is ???

[SOUL]

5 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

And the point of this is ???

It's a mystical riddle.

[Sugarcoat]

17 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It's a mystical riddle.

Thanks for the suggestion 

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, 001 said:

I want to be awake but I always sabotage my progress after reaching certain emptiness and calmness from meditation 

I want to go to a retreat bec i can't stand my fucking ego anymore

How about narrowing down even more what you don’t like. Ego is very broad term. What is it about your ego you don’t like? Who said you need retreat for that

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, 001 said:

Negative Thoughts and meaningless 

the only reason I lose my progress is bec of the people I live with and interact with

when I was living with my grandparents for sometime I was super hyper awake

Okay good now you have more clarity. So entire ego isn’t problem because perhaps it’s possible to have positive and peaceful  ego , now how can you get there? Perhaps more achievable than no ego - and it leads to your goals (no negativity)

well…..

It’s possible to not be affected by that..

[Yimpa]

Guided meditation sessions works when you’re feeling overwhelmed and you need a guide.

Absolute meditation is state of being awake while meditating indefinitely. 

[Yimpa]

46 minutes ago, 001 said:

I want to go to a retreat bec i can't stand my fucking ego anymore

You don’t need a retreat. You need ALIVENESS

[Yimpa]

@001 By aliveness, what I mean is the complete understanding that you created all of this. Everything. Absolutely nothing else can be, but You!

This revelation, integrated and deepened over and over again, gives you your full sovereignty back. You are less inclined to run away from yourself. 

Embracing all aspects of yourself to such a radical degree = Alien Love

[_Archangel_]

11 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

if you desire enlightenment - like you seem to do - doesn’t that mean that you sense there is something desirable about it to you?

what is desirable about a “change in the context of existence”?

it’s almost as if you are missing something to your definition of it.
 

Isn’t the first step to getting what you want, knowing what you want?

To start a quest you don't need to know the exact details of your goal. all you need is the right set of theory and practice, then intuition will do the rest. The quest to enlightment equals to knowing what i am and what reality is.
Pieces of the puzzle will reveal themselves through time that both confirm and negate your expectation.

What you are tring to say, maybe, is that ultimetly this is a non-destination, beyond time and space and outside of any cause -effect correlation, which is true, but first one need to take the train and "get there"

11 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

You say :

“Nontheless, a clear and present state of mind is certainly mere conductive to awakening then being drunk for example.“

if you attain a clear and present state of mind - doesn’t any desire for something to come as a result of it disrupt this very state? It’s almost paradoxical then 

what you're not getting is that awakening is attained through a balance of "holding strong" and "letting go". Bot are fundamental. All poeple have a mixture of both. But relying on one of the 2 too much is  going to cause problems.
With "Holding strong" i mean Studying, practicing systematicaly, discipline, not quitting etc.

Holding strong has to start with a desire. You have to put in effort. Then comes the letting go.

You can't deny that a clear state of mind is more conductive to enlightment then when you are drunk or groggy.

If you thing i'm wrong, then you are negating dozens of lineages in the world whose methods have been proven right in centuries.


 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by _Archangel_