How we have free will -free will explained

[Someone here]

Do "you " have free will ?

It all depends on what do we mean by "you ". It's all dependent on your self-definition . If you identify as the human body ..then certainly you have a tiny portion of will . You can't fly. You can't wish a million bucks into existence etc.  And some spiritual schools claim that you as an ego..or as a separate self have ZERO control over your life .over anything basically. And it's easy to prove if you tried to think of what wil be the next thought in your mind lol . Or if I told you to not think of a red cat (immediately an image of a red cat appears in your mind ). 

So does that mean you have no free will ? Well the answer is : YES &NO!

If you define yourself as this human being..then surely you have limited free will. However,..if you define yourself as the entire universe..then everything that happens ..is your own will . You are like a movie writer and actor simultaneously.  You as the author have predestined everything from the get go ..not a single atom moves by chance ..its all Your will . But you as an actor only have the power to act out as what's being predestined. So when you click on this thread..you actually have predestined this to happen from the start of infinity (so to speak) but you as the human didn't have a choice . This video of leo explains it perfectly. 

 

Any questions? 

 

[Moksha]

Sometimes people think of free will as being able to impose their desires on the cosmos. I see it as absolute surrender. By unconditionally allowing the cosmos to flow through you, the will of the absolute aligns with itself. It's frictionless harmony and freedom.

[UnlovingGod]

There are many explanations to it from infinite angles. Here's a more cientific one.

Your brain, your "controlling" organ, is made out of neurons. Those neurons fire electrical and chemical signals to each other.

A material scientist would say, if we had enough "neurons" in a complex system, then with enough "complexity" we would just have councioussness.

Now think it trough, what materialist scientist don't realize, is that their defenition of "complexity" is just a magical term, a magical step, that makes us counciouss. 

So if you take this magical term "complexity" out of the equation. Now you just have neurons and you have your councioussness. 

No amount of neurons would make you counciouss. There is something magical to councioussness, but it is no kind of "complexity". 

We could have all those neuronal, hormonal functions and just act like robots or computer programs, so think what's the point of experiencing, if it is not inherently useful for survival and we could probably even better survive without experiencing or living and just be Virusus.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Sometimes people think of free will as being able to impose their desires on the cosmos. I see it as absolute surrender. By unconditionally allowing the cosmos to flow through you, the will of the absolute aligns with itself. It's frictionless harmony and freedom.

Exactly! But they do that because they are believing they are the ego .the seperate self that should be in control of its life . They are afraid of getting out of their own way and allow the will of God (which is essentially their will as well ) to do what it had to do in its infinite wisdom .  

Leo has two episodes on free will .in the first one he denied that we have free will because he looked at it from the illusory ego perspective .but in the second video he tackled the issue from God's pov.

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, UnlovingGod said:

There are many explanations to it from infinite angles. Here's a more cientific one.

Your brain, your "controlling" organ, is made out of neurons. Those neurons fire electrical and chemical signals to each other.

A material scientist would say, if we had enough "neurons" in a complex system, then with enough "complexity" we would just have councioussness.

Now think it trough, what materialist scientist don't realize, is that their defenition of "complexity" is just a magical term, a magical step, that makes us counciouss. 

So if you take this magical term "complexity" out of the equation. Now you just have neurons and you have your councioussness. 

No amount of neurons would make you counciouss. There is something magical to councioussness, but it is no kind of "complexity". 

We could have all those neuronal, hormonal functions and just act like robots or computer programs, so think what's the point of experiencing, if it is not inherently useful for survival and we could probably even better survive without experiencing or living and just be Virusus.

Its because Most people are materialists . they believe in an objective external world of independently existing objects separate from themselves that they can passively perceive using their brains.

However, serious thinkers over the last century have realized that materialism doesn't make sense.

Consciousness is fundamental. No brains or neurons have anything to do with it .

[Moksha]

@Someone here ⚡The ego is misalignment with the truth. All people need to do is let go of misidentification, to realize the truth and become free.

[Inliytened1]

42 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Do "you " have free will ?

It all depends on what do we mean by "you ". It's all dependent on your self-definition . If you identify as the human body ..then certainly you have a tiny portion of will . You can't fly. You can't wish a million bucks into existence etc.  And some spiritual schools claim that you as an ego..or as a separate self have ZERO control over your life .over anything basically. And it's easy to prove if you tried to think of what wil be the next thought in your mind lol . Or if I told you to not think of a red cat (immediately an image of a red cat appears in your mind ). 

So does that mean you have no free will ? Well the answer is : YES &NO!

If you define yourself as this human being..then surely you have limited free will. However,..if you define yourself as the entire universe..then everything that happens ..is your own will . You are like a movie writer and actor simultaneously.  You as the author have predestined everything from the get go ..not a single atom moves by chance ..its all Your will . But you as an actor only have the power to act out as what's being predestined. So when you click on this thread..you actually have predestined this to happen from the start of infinity (so to speak) but you as the human didn't have a choice . This video of leo explains it perfectly. 

 

Any questions? 

 

Appearance is reality.  So as long as their appears to be free will, that's good enough.   At the Absolute level it is God's will and you are God.  So it is God's will.  But you are not allowing Yourself to see your own Will, for the sake of the movie.  Otherwise there would be no reality. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Schizophonia]

Not only free will but also the concept of "freedom" in general is an illusion and leads to nothing.
Your life could never have been otherwise, you never really make a mistake or make the right choice in absolute terms, it makes no sense if you think about it.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

At the Absolute level it is God's will and you are God.  So it is God's will.  But you are not allowing Yourself to see your own Will, for the sake of the movie.  Otherwise there would be no reality. 

Yup. You have preordained everything from the start and designed it to be a perfectly deceiving existence. To appear as a weak little human who can't control his genitals lol.  And when you finally meet God  ..it will all make perfect sense 

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@Someone here ⚡The ego is misalignment with the truth. All people need to do is let go of misidentification, to realize the truth and become free.

But if you let go of All misidentification with being a finite human you will be like a drop that dissolves in the ocean . I'd say you can't let go of false identity and still maintain a human life .idk maybe folks like Jesus or Ramana Maharshi can do it.

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Not only free will but also the concept of "freedom" in general is an illusion and leads to nothing.
Your life could never have been otherwise, you never really make a mistake or make the right choice in absolute terms, it makes no sense if you think about it.

You can and will make all the choices in life.  But like i said not the human you . The god you . I agree that as a mere body mind you can't control what is even gonna pop in your mind next second.  Buy you as God have known that and created that from the very beginning 

Watch the video. 

[Moksha]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

But if you let go of All misidentification with being a finite human you will be like a drop that dissolves in the ocean . I'd say you can't let go of false identity and still maintain a human life .idk maybe folks like Jesus or Ramana Maharshi can do it.

It's stunning how little misidentification is necessary to remain within the dream. You can survive on auto-pilot, while anchored in the absolute awareness that you are doing nothing, changing nothing, and experiencing nothing. Phenomena still happen as long as you're even distally attached to the dream, but you see beyond their apparent differentiation and realize they are you.

Like you say though, it's rare. For most of us integration is a gradual and lifelong process. As Ramana Maharshi put it:

External samadhi is holding on to the reality while witnessing the world, without reacting to it from within. There is the stillness of a waveless ocean. 

[Vibroverse]

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

It's stunning how little misidentification is necessary to remain within the dream. You can survive on auto-pilot, while anchored in the absolute awareness that you are doing nothing, changing nothing, and experiencing nothing. Phenomena still happen as long as you're even distally attached to the dream, but you see beyond their apparent differentiation and realize they are you.

Like you say though, it's rare. For most of us integration is a gradual and lifelong process. As Ramana Maharshi put it:

External samadhi is holding on to the reality while witnessing the world, without reacting to it from within. There is the stillness of a waveless ocean. 

Yeah, i think of absolute enlightenment in that way, where you simply become the watcher, the awareness, and not involved in the thinking and doing process. You, in a sense, simply get into a state of deep sleep 24/7, where you are just, with absolutely zero effort, watching the movie of life unfold. No thinker, no doer. Just relaxing forever and ever and ever, in a sense. 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Vibroverse

[Moksha]

55 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

Yeah, i think of absolute enlightenment in that way, where you simply become the watcher, the awareness, and not involved in the thinking and doing process. You, in a sense, simply get into a state of deep sleep 24/7, where you are just, with absolutely zero effort, watching the movie of life unfold. No thinker, no doer. Just relaxing forever and ever and ever, in a sense. 

Enlightenment isn't perpetual ecstasy, as some people think. Along the spiritual journey, you may have peak states, and believe that once you are enlightened, the rest of your life will be spent shouting paeons of joy at the sky. You can still channel tidal floods of light, but they ebb and flow along with the will of the absolute. Ecstasy isn't sustainable. Enlightenment is unwavering serenity.

[Vibroverse]

5 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Enlightenment isn't perpetual ecstasy, as some people think. Along the spiritual journey, you may have peak states, and believe that once you are enlightened, the rest of your life will be spent shouting paeons of joy at the sky. You can still channel tidal floods of light, but they ebb and flow along with the will of the absolute. Ecstasy isn't sustainable. Enlightenment is unwavering serenity.

Yeah, i agree. 

[Someone here]

15 hours ago, Moksha said:

It's stunning how little misidentification is necessary to remain within the dream. You can survive on auto-pilot, while anchored in the absolute awareness that you are doing nothing, changing nothing, and experiencing nothing. Phenomena still happen as long as you're even distally attached to the dream, but you see beyond their apparent differentiation and realize they are you.

Like you say though, it's rare. For most of us integration is a gradual and lifelong process. As Ramana Maharshi put it:

External samadhi is holding on to the reality while witnessing the world, without reacting to it from within. There is the stillness of a waveless ocean. 

Amen ? 

[gettoefl]

you do everything out of self interest namely you have no choice but to except for one thing

meditation

meditation sucks folks, it is the only thing you do with is NOT self interest, in fact it is the apparent self's death sentence

nobody want to meditate no matter what people on the internet tell you, it is damn hard work, rewards are dubious, the pay is peanuts and besides mind has you firmly under its thumb telling you that you need more sleep not mat sitting

meditation is the only free will

everything else you do out of l.u.s.t., likes upvotes shares thanks

thank you for listening

Edited June 10, 2023 by gettoefl

[Holykael]

2 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

you do everything out of self interest namely you have no choice but to except for one thing

meditation

meditation sucks folks, it is the only thing you do with is NOT self interest, in fact it is the apparent self's death sentence

nobody want to meditate no matter what people on the internet tell you, it is damn hard work, rewards are dubious, the pay is peanuts

meditation is the only free will

everything else you do out of l.u.s.t., likes upvotes shares thanks

thank you for listening

Meditation isn't free will at all. Just like taking psychedelics isn't either.

[gettoefl]

46 minutes ago, Holykael said:

Meditation isn't free will at all. Just like taking psychedelics isn't either.

it is the only thing that can be done in violation of self interest

everything you do, you want to do because it keeps you in the game

you are a self enjoyment maximiser in all you do

even so called hardship and sacrifice you do it for your greater good and your long term legacy

all except when it comes to meditation

you don't want to meditate, you have a litany of prepared reasons not to and i am talking real meditation not the schlock that passes for it on phone apps

you meditate hand in hand with the absolute when it tells you to start playing a different game from now on

your free will is necessary but not sufficient, you need the absolute to enter which is what is termed grace

psychedelics meanwhile is game enhancement 101

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by gettoefl

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

you do everything out of self interest namely you have no choice but to except for one thing

meditation

meditation sucks folks, it is the only thing you do with is NOT self interest, in fact it is the apparent self's death sentence

nobody want to meditate no matter what people on the internet tell you, it is damn hard work, rewards are dubious, the pay is peanuts and besides mind has you firmly under its thumb telling you that you need more sleep not mat sitting

meditation is the only free will

everything else you do out of l.u.s.t., likes upvotes shares thanks

thank you for listening

No .there are no exceptions. It's all or nothing . You either have zero control over your life including everything even meditation. Or you have 100% control over everything. 

What I'm suggesting is that BOTH are true. Depending on your self-definition. 

Did you listen to Leo's clip? 

 

[Vibroverse]

If God is perfect eternally, then how can God have free will? I mean shouldn't God always, necessarily, in a sense as Leibniz says, choose the most perfect path in every moment? And also, if God is the entirety of being that is all inclusive, then how can God be free to choose this over that? Because that would imply that God will not include one of those choices in its being to the degree that God involves the other choice in its being. 

 

[Someone here]

16 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

If God is perfect eternally, then how can God have free will? I mean shouldn't God always, necessarily, in a sense as Leibniz says, choose the most perfect path in every moment? And also, if God is the entirety of being that is all inclusive, then how can God be free to choose this over that? Because that would imply that God will not include one of those choices in its being to the degree that God involves the other choice in its being. 

 

Because god is everything. And is infinite. Therefore his will is infinite. There is nothing outside of God to tell it how it should be .God is the ultimate existential authority.