Cornel West For President?

[Tanz]

Im super pumped about his announcement, I've been following him for years and saddened to hear that he wasn't treated at Harvard with enough respect.  

Even if he doesn't win, its going to be important for America to move in the direction of a 3rd, 4th party.   

[ryandesreu]

West sounds like a good candidate but I don't like him in this scenario. We need someone strong enough to beat a Republican right now, not someone who is going to take votes from the Democrats. I generally like what he stands for but I don't see him as an asset in 2024 unless Biden drops out, maybe then West gets all of the Democrat votes and wins!

[abundance]

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

Im super pumped about his announcement, I've been following him for years and saddened to hear that he wasn't treated at Harvard with enough respect.  

Even if he doesn't win, its going to be important for America to move in the direction of a 3rd, 4th party.   

If West gets just 2% of the vote and paves the way for a Trump or DeSantis victory, there will be no viable path for a 3rd party. It will permanent one party rule. 

[Tanz]

20 minutes ago, abundance said:

If West gets just 2% of the vote and paves the way for a Trump or DeSantis victory, there will be no viable path for a 3rd party. It will permanent one party rule. 

That's the wrong mentality to have because nothing will change and both parties will just keep on doing the least as possible to keep their voters.  In the long run, moving towards a system that distributes power will help the country move forward, 20, 30, 40, 50 years into the future.  

Voting blue no matter who will lead to a future like Starwars, Altered Carbon, or Foundation where the same group of people controls the entire galaxy for thousands of years.  

There's a good number of Americans that do not vote at all because they don't feel any politician represents them.  Since they arent participating in democracy they are more likely to break the law or do whatever they feel they have to do to survive.  

A majority of Americans are losing faith in themselves and others, Cornel West can be a path forward to heal those wounds.  Both parties are bought by the same people, if there were 4-7 parties out there like some socialist European countries buying all the parties will be much more difficult.  

Edited June 10, 2023 by Tanz

[Godhead]

5 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

Why are democratically run towns destroyed by poverty and republican ones seems to be well kept, maintained, and cared for?

Consider that political affiliation is just one factor among many that affect people's standard of living. Economic conditions, historical context, local leadership, and policy decisions all play a role too.

To reduce the issue by focusing solely on the political color of a state is overly simplistic and doesn't lead to productive discussions.

When it comes to poverty, various factors contribute to it. High costs of living, expensive rents, and lack of social safety nets for example. Wealthier areas often face these issues (and they are more apparent due to higher population density), and they tend to lean Democrat in their voting patterns. One reason for this is that as people's own needs are met, they tend to prioritize the well-being of others, leading to more pluralistic thinking. Correlation, not causation.

So this doesn't mean that if Republican policies were in place, these problems would automatically be solved. California, for example, has had Republican leadership for decades, and many of its current issues stem from policies implemented during that time.

Some leftists would argue that these problems are a result of neoliberal capitalism, which both Democrats and Republicans have supported. Poverty is often seen as a natural outcome of this doctrine. So the answer to those issues does not lie in what color the Governor represents, it lies in smart policy decisions.

 

6 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

Why are we allowing a president to continue making decision when he is obviously not cognitively healthy enough to do so?

He seems to have accomplished quite a bit despite his age.

The fundamental problem with American politics is the lack of choice. It's either Democrat or Republican, this issue has been resolved in many other countries. All it takes is structural reform of the political system, but unfortunately, there isn't enough political will to push for it. As a result, Democrats often prioritize putting forward the most recognizable face to ensure victory, with the actual qualities of the president becoming secondary. This is a systemic problem within the political system. Additionally, many Democrats aren't particularly enthusiastic about Biden either. However, when the alternative is Trump, the decision becomes much easier.

 

6 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

Why are we allowing thousands of undocumented immigrants and caring for them more than our own homeless citizens?

It's not accurate to say that the U.S. has open borders and doesn't invest significant amounts to combat undocumented immigration. In reality, countries like the United States have immigration laws and enforcement agencies in place to manage immigration.

Regarding undocumented immigrants, most studies I'm aware of argue that they are beneficial for the economy, and if they were granted proper documentation, they could contribute more effectively by paying taxes. Additionally, they also commit less crime than the average U.S. citizen due to fear of deportation.

Your framing assumes that there is a fixed pool of money that can only go towards either helping homeless individuals or supporting immigrants. The issue is more complex than that. Undocumented immigrants, often contribute more to the system than they take out. Consider the fact that there are other areas of expenditure, such as the military budget or bank bailouts, that could also be scrutinized when addressing homelessness. Contemplate why you bring up homelessness when it comes to immigrants. Aren't you spiritual? Isn't all life worth saving and providing for? Why differentiate? Because of different pigmentation? America certainly has the capacities to care for and support homeless people and immigrants to become productive members of society. 

The systemic issues that lead to homelessness should be tackled, and accommodations should be provided for those affected. But then Republicans would complain that those lazy bums get everything for free while hard-working Americans have to pay rent. Okay, then you provide money for hard-working Americans and Republicans will cry about inflation or irresponsible spending. Understand that the republican party does not care about the average person, neither do they care about homelessness or veterans. They weaponize them to further their political agenda and gain power. It is feasible to make significant progress in reducing homelessness, but it requires political will, which may not be equally present on both sides of the political spectrum. Democrats, at least on the surface, tend to show more concern for this issue, while Republicans tend to exacerbate the issue through more aggressive policies.

 

6 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

Why does mainstream news outlets and the left hate Trump so much? Why are they so afraid of him? Why do they favor the left so much more?

Because he lies, lacks political understanding, has been credibly accused of almost every crime possible, and has a history of being consistently wrong on various matters. He destabilized the country, doesn't care about democratic principles, tried to overthrow the government, and claimed election fraud. The list of his negative qualities goes on and on.

Many people who care about the flourishing of the U.S. understandably don't want a guy like that gaining political power. America's reputation as the "laughing stock" of the world is not due to Biden but rather stems from the fact that people perceive Americans as foolish for being deceived by a con man who lies to their faces and acts against their interests, yet still garners support.

If you see issues in your country, think about what the systemic reasons for these issues are. What has happened in the past to lead to these events? What is keeping this issue in place? What could be done to solve these issues? How can those solutions be translated into smart policies?

This is how you come to valuable conclusions. Be open to reevaluating your opinions and political stances constantly and don't just absorb the talking points of some political pundit. 

[Arthogaan]

10 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

Oh I forgot.. It's totally normal and healthy to grope and sniff little girls hairs as a 70+ year old man. Totally nothing suspicious about that at all!

I totally don't know what is true but just wanted you to know that from my perspective it looks like a cute grandpa behaviour. I see nothing sexual in it at all. It is just wanting to show care. It is actually quite funny to me that someone could see pedophilia in those pictures. 

[Yimpa]

He has a very good chance of winning. 

In the 2057 presidential election. 

[Tanz]

5 hours ago, Yimpa said:

He has a very good chance of winning. 

In the 2057 presidential election. 

At least he's putting himself out there to serve and try to change the country

[Husseinisdoingfine]

He's got my vote, f*** the two party system. I'm sick of voting for lying corporate candidate #1 vs #2.

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

He's got my vote, f*** the two party system. I'm sick of voting for lying corporate candidate #1 vs #2.

If he were serious about actually making a tangible impact in the political landscape, he'd have gone the Bernie Sanders route of running in the Democratic primary.

Bernie's smart enough to realize that how you actually influence political discourse is through Game Change (ie moving the Overton Window by mainstreaming Leftist policy positions). And like it or not that involves working through the political system that actually exists.

A doomed third party presidential run is a good way to ensure that you have basically zero impact on the broader culture. It's basic Game Denial 101, and why I can't take him seriously.

Edited June 10, 2023 by DocWatts

[VictorB02]

@Godhead Thank you for your reply

Edited June 12, 2023 by VictorB02

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, Tanz said:

At least he's putting himself out there to serve and try to change the country

More politicians need to turn inward. 

[Tanz]

On 6/11/2023 at 2:13 AM, Yimpa said:

More politicians need to turn inward. 

That statement holds for everyone on this planet.  The way the system works is, the incentivization system is built on lies and deception.  

Any reasonable-minded person would leave their party once they have any conscience. 

The reason why people were so tolerant of Epstein was because of what he could offer them even when knowing he was pimping teenage girls.  
The same thing happens (s) in Hollywood and the only solution will be to limit their power by distributing it.

There is no way to fix both parties until there is more competition for them.  

The ego also looks for things in others to put itself in a higher moral position, this alleviates its transgressions.  

Edited June 12, 2023 by Tanz

[abundance]

On 6/10/2023 at 0:16 AM, Tanz said:

That's the wrong mentality to have because nothing will change and both parties will just keep on doing the least as possible to keep their voters.  In the long run, moving towards a system that distributes power will help the country move forward, 20, 30, 40, 50 years into the future.  

Voting blue no matter who will lead to a future like Starwars, Altered Carbon, or Foundation where the same group of people controls the entire galaxy for thousands of years.  

There's a good number of Americans that do not vote at all because they don't feel any politician represents them.  Since they arent participating in democracy they are more likely to break the law or do whatever they feel they have to do to survive.  

A majority of Americans are losing faith in themselves and others, Cornel West can be a path forward to heal those wounds.  Both parties are bought by the same people, if there were 4-7 parties out there like some socialist European countries buying all the parties will be much more difficult.  

No, its the most pragmatic mentality if your intent is to keep fascists from taking power. And the Republican party are growing more and more authoritarian and fascistic. They're currently the biggest threat to our democracy.

Furthermore, Democrats have come up with numerous pieces of legislation that could help working class Americans and each time the entire Republican party has obstructed it. They are not the same party.

A good number of Americans don't vote because they're completely ignorant of the importance of politics and simply don't care. Bernie campaigned on a number of hot button issues that should have brought out more voters and they DIDN'T show up.

[DocWatts]

53 minutes ago, abundance said:

No, its the most pragmatic mentality if your intent is to keep fascists from taking power. And the Republican party are growing more and more authoritarian and fascistic. They're currently the biggest threat to our democracy.

Furthermore, Democrats have come up with numerous pieces of legislation that could help working class Americans and each time the entire Republican party has obstructed it. They are not the same party.

A good number of Americans don't vote because they're completely ignorant of the importance of politics and simply don't care. Bernie campaigned on a number of hot button issues that should have brought out more voters and they DIDN'T show up.

This ^

Letting an increasingly fascistic Republican party dismantle what remains of American democracy is literally the worst case outcome of the dynamics that are at play right now.

The current Republican Party is actively supporting political violence, both from paramilitary groups and lone wolf actors, while trying to destabilize the country to achieve thier political aims. Trump himself is a national security risk who put the United States in danger.

The Democratic Party basically wants business as usual, but can at least be bullied into supporting policies that benefit the American people. The Republicans know that thier extremism is unpopular, and instead of moderating their platform have chosen to dismantle democracy.

Edited June 12, 2023 by DocWatts

[Tanz]

@abundance The problem is people on the right view left as fascist and in their eyes and values the left is. This 2 party system creates polarity so we need more parties to prevent culture wars. 

If it was Trump vs Biden vs West you think all people on the right will vote for Trump? Just like people on the left would prefer West there will be some but probably fewer that would prefer him over Trump.

 

[VictorB02]

7 minutes ago, Tanz said:

@abundance The problem is people on the right view left as fascist and in their eyes and values the left is. This 2 party system creates polarity so we need more parties to prevent culture wars. 

If it was Trump vs Biden vs West you think all people on the right will vote for Trump? Just like people on the left would prefer West there will be some but probably fewer that would prefer him over Trump.

 

I bet more people vote third-party this year than ever before

[abundance]

29 minutes ago, Tanz said:

@abundance The problem is people on the right view left as fascist and in their eyes and values the left is. This 2 party system creates polarity so we need more parties to prevent culture wars. 

If it was Trump vs Biden vs West you think all people on the right will vote for Trump? Just like people on the left would prefer West there will be some but probably fewer that would prefer him over Trump.

 

I agree that we need to dismantle the 2 party system, which is why I'd prefer something like rank choice voting. Presently, there is no viable 3rd party that stands a chance to compete with Democrats or Republicans with the way our voting system is structured.

And yes, most people who're on the right or centrist AREN'T voting for Cornell West. Its foolish to even believe so. Cornell West will siphon far more votes from left leaning people than those who lean right.

Historically, 3rd party candidates have had pretty disastrous consequences. Ralph Nader in 2000 got us Bush, which led to two disastrous war, deregulation of financial institutions that led to the 2008 Great Recession, and inaction on climate change (at a time when it transitioning from fossil fuels could have prevent the grim trajectory we currently find ourselves on).  

Jill Stein in 2016 led to Trump, which led to a staunchly conservative leaning SCOTUS, the deliberate mishandling of a once in a century pandemic, inaction on climate change, further extremism on the right, and the attempted overthrow of an election etc etc.

Our political actions have far reaching consequences and if Cornell West gets just 2% or 3% of the vote it will more than likely lead to Trump or DeSantis becoming president. And I shouldn't have to explain why a party that just tried attempting a coup and still denies the election results is so dangerous. In my humble opinion if Republicans are given power again, they'll do everything in their power to ensure we have a one party state. Similar to Russia and Hungary. And not having a viable 3rd party will be the least of our worries.

Edited June 12, 2023 by abundance

[abundance]

1 minute ago, abundance said:

duplicate post

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by abundance

[abundance]

24 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

I bet more people vote third-party this year than ever before

Not enough for a 3rd party candidate to become president.