What are your opinions on China

[UnlovingGod]

What's your opinion on China probably becoming the next world super power and overtaking the US. I've got a certain opinion, but I don't want to share it and hear your honest thoughts.

Edited May 31, 2023 by UnlovingGod

[Recursoinominado]

Socialism works.

Before revolution, China was the poorest country of the world, now it is on its way to beat the US.

[Leo Gura]

China is more capitalist than socialist. What works for China is crazy levels of global capitalism.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[UnlovingGod]

People forget that there many facets to capitalism, you can have social securities and at the same time a free market or a more regulated market without any social securities. The social security system as far as I have researched it in China is in comparison to countries with the same GDP per capita in relation to purchasing power parity bang avarege maybe slightly better, the chinese market is one of the most regulated in the world, which still makes it capitalist. There is no such contradiction between regulations and capitalism. Where there are contradictions because of regulations is with neoliberalism (A form of capitalism). Of course the cheer workforce in China makes them perfectly suitable for a mega globalised world. Still when you compare China with India, China is doing way better, which can be attributed to their economic system, where companies act according to maximizing profits, but under a strict government, that makes clear that they've got the ultimate power. In the west we celebrate that unwillingness of a clear vision for the future. Nordic countries have a more consenus based parlament, that works quite good, while USA, Germany, Great Britain and France even enact laws to handcuff themselves, the so called "Schuldenbremse" in Germany enacted around 2008, that prevents Germany to literally take out loans (Yeah, it sounds surreal, but it actually is, just in very specific circumstances like COVID, loans can be taken) and as far as I've heard it, it is also proposed in the USA, which is the biggest bullshit policy a country can ever enact, it's like disolving the military...

To all extend, I'm quite optimisting that China will be the first really good working socialist country. It all depends, what happens after the masterminds in the power position in chinese politics will retire...

To be honest, I think they are the most evolved, strategical and tactical politicians out there, governing a country right now.

Edited June 1, 2023 by UnlovingGod

[UnlovingGod]

A general Video about Chinas past, present and future.

China's Railway system, giving an example of the efficency of their politics and economics

China's foreign policy

China's foreign loans

Every video has their own biasis. So watch out, those Video I would strongly recommend to watch it at full length, as they are complemantary.

And if you really want to go down the rapidhole, this the 5 years plan released in 2021. Watch how deliberate they plan out their future progresd.

 

[Sucuk Ekmek]

 

8 hours ago, UnlovingGod said:

 

To all extend, I'm quite optimisting that China will be the first really good working socialist country. It all depends, what happens after the masterminds in the power position in chinese politics will retire..

You are quite optimistic.

I just cant apply my human concepts to masterminds. They are machine alike creatures they never retire or trip.

[thenondualtankie]

Quote

China is more capitalist than socialist. What works for China is crazy levels of global capitalism.

I don't think it's so clear cut that China is capitalist. It could be that China is actually stage Yellow and is deliberately allowing itself to progress through the stages of society. If socialism is the transition of society from capitalism to communism, then by this definition you can argue that China is socialist.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, thenondualtankie said:

It could be that China is actually stage Yellow and is deliberately allowing itself to progress through the stages of society

There is no way that is true.

China is deeply Blue/Orange. It has yet to confront Green. Nevermind Yellow.

I think if China went full capitalist, it would do as well or better than now. The core of China's prosperity is grounded in capital enterprise. State interference in business in China is not a great thing.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[UnlovingGod]

Just now, thenondualtankie said:

I don't think it's so clear cut that China is capitalist. It could be that China is actually stage Yellow and is deliberately allowing itself to progress through the stages of society. If socialism is the transition of society from capitalism to communism, then by this definition you can argue that China is socialist.

As long as the chinese bussinesses try to maximaze profits by the surplus value of the worker/employee, it's capitalism. That's how easy it is.

[UnlovingGod]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

There is no way that is true.

China is deeply Blue/Orange. It has yet to confront Green. Nevermind Yellow.

I think if China went full capitalist, it would do as well or better than now. The core of China's prosperity is grounded in capital enterprise. State interference in business in China is not a great thing.

Just now, Leo Gura said:

 

7 minutes ago, thenondualtankie said:

 

China is not yellow that's for sure. The politicians are certainly solid yellow, the foreign policies are just way more counciouss than Americans and European one's.

What are you saying with capital enterprises? Substituted bussiness probably. Yeah there's a lot of critic, that those bussiness have an edge over other foreign bussiness, because they can sell at a lower price and the exchange rate of the Yuan is also somewhat controlled by China. So what, independence from the stock market? Every bussiness needs investors, and if it's the chinese government, that invests? So what? What's the problem that bussiness isnt as profit incentive in China as in western countries?

And state interventions happen in China in way more noumerous orders in the economy just than substituted bussiness.

Western countries don't understand how modern money works, it's not real, it's imaginary. It's not gold that has intrinsic value, it is just paper and the government has full control of it. One of the few good quotes of Trump "We print the money".

Inflation doesn't correlate as stupid with the amount of money flowing through an economy nowadays as 100 years before.

There is a competition between two in a race, one comes with a 1980s car and another comes with a Lamborghini. And then the one with the 1980s car makes critic on the Lamborghini, because he doesn't follow the rules, eventhough he has stuck with the 80s car because he doesn't want to follow rules.

USA under Biden has shown tendencies to a more state centralised economy as they need to switch to the Lamborghini. Green New Deal for example... Bernie Sanders also wants a more state centralised economy.

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no way that is true.

China is deeply Blue/Orange. It has yet to confront Green. Nevermind Yellow.

I think if China went full capitalist, it would do as well or better than now. The core of China's prosperity is grounded in capital enterprise. State interference in business in China is not a great thing.

Why is some state interference in business not a great thing there? Isn't what they are doing working? Plus, isn't better than the government being laissez faire about their economy? Plus, China already has some some things that the US doesn't even have such as high speed rails throughout the whole country, much greater funding for all kinds of public works and public schools, universal health care, forcing all citizens to get vaccinated and wear masks during COVID emergencies, COVID price controls, limiting children from wasting so much time on video/computer games, high trust in all of their institutions, and more.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Hardkill

[Recursoinominado]

The state interference is exactly what made China great.

[Leo Gura]

The greatness of China is very much in doubt. They do some evil shit to their people.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Recursoinominado]

Sure they do, they are also a little savage still, most of the country probably isn't even full blue yet.

[Hardkill]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The greatness of China is very much in doubt. They do some evil shit to their people.

What if they have the same level of state interference they have but transition towards having the level of democracy and freedom that Europeans have?

[TrustTheProcess]

@Hardkill it’s precisely the degree of state interference itself that is inhibiting them from having the level of democracy and freedom that europe has though.

[puporing]

It's still highly tribalistic, repressive/oppressive. There're still tons of Stage Red shadows that many who haven't been around it close enough can't see (eg they won't show it to a foreigner or on television). 

Edited June 2, 2023 by puporing

[Ramanujan]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The greatness of China is very much in doubt. They do some evil shit to their people.

China is making a lot of money .  Chinese economy is growing super fast . USA see this as a threat . So USA is using social media to deamonize China and making the common man hate Chine . dont fall for this garbage . Worry about yourself instead of being pulled into this drama

[Blackhawk]

The stupid thing is that it's west who made/makes China great. Because we throw our money at them.  Just stop sending your money to China. How hard can it be.

1 hour ago, Ramanujan said:

China is making a lot of money .  Chinese economy is growing super fast . USA see this as a threat . So USA is using social media to deamonize China and making the common man hate Chine . dont fall for this garbage . Worry about yourself instead of being pulled into this drama

So you like dictatorship?

China will start a war, they will probably attack Taiwan. And then it will be like with Russia. But worse. And then China will be a poor country again when people no longer want to buy Chinese products and China is isolated and they have spent their money on a unnecessary war.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Blackhawk

[Ramanujan]

11 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

 

So you like dictatorship?

China will start a war, they will probably attack Taiwan. And then it will be like with Russia. But worse. And then China will be a poor country again when people no longer want to buy Chinese products and China is isolated and they have spent their money on a unnecessary war.

USA killed off 10 million civilians in middle east . how is China worser than USA . USA is worse than china if u ask me

 

Also i am not blaming anyone here . i am only telling u to stop getting pulled into this drama. every country on the planet will commit genocide if they get a chance. as a common man, we should not get pulled into this drama