Jhanas vs The Mind Illuminated

[Blackjack38]

So I started following The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa, which is great as it gives detailed fundamental information about the nature of conscious awareness. I am in stage 2 now, have greater concentration.

So I have 2 questions for The Mind Illuminated readers:

1. When does The Mind Illuminated style meditation show actual benefits?

2. I heard it is easier to do jhanas than TMI meditation. If it is easier I will switch to Jhanas because I think I can get faster results with Jhanas being pleasurable by its nature.

 

Thanks

[Moksha]

When it comes to meditation, or any other spiritual practice, it's more about experimenting to see what works than about following a universal method. Even for a specific guide like The Mind Illuminated, it's best to follow your instinct and modify the approach according to your needs.

For example, following the breath doesn't feel natural to me. Focusing on the inner body does. So that is the core of my practice, even though TMI references the breath.

Eventually, you reach the point where you can immediately center on awareness and any specific technique becomes secondary. It gradually rewires the brain, and becomes your default state even in regular life.

[Breakingthewall]

exactly, formal practices are limiting, you have to find your way to open yourself. It is not easy, the substances are a fundamental help for me, without them it is extremely difficult, the barriers are too solid. on the one hand, it's disappointing to think that if it weren't for those aids you'd be stuck forever, it's very difficult without them, but on the other hand, that's how the game is made, those jokers exist and they're there

[Buck Edwards]

I have never understood what these jhanas mean.. 

[Moksha]

The physical motions of yoga, the spoken mantras, and the mind-stilling training of meditation are progressive inward steps toward direct realization. Some people bypass these practices by diving into the deep ocean of self-inquiry. It is the clearest path, but not many have the lung capacity to sustain such a dive.

What matters is not what works for others, but what prepares the absolute to awaken itself within you. Begin by asking, "Who am I?" and see how deep the question takes you. If there is no answer yet, try a more gradual approach. You have nothing to prove and everything to gain by finding what works for you.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Some people bypass these practices by diving into the deep ocean of self-inquiry. It is the clearest path, but not many have the lung capacity to sustain such a dive.

Id say meditation is always necessary, if not the mind rebels, you are a slave to mental arisings. you have to master meditation, do it every day, hours. at least my mind is very rebellious, very chaotic, very son of a bitch ?. I have to tame it

[Moksha]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Id say meditation is always necessary, if not the mind rebels, you are a slave to mental arisings. you have to master meditation, do it every day, hours. at least my mind is very rebellious, very chaotic, very son of a bitch ?. I have to tame it

Never say always 

Ramana Maharshi awakened at the age of 16. I didn't awaken until I turned 55, and meditation came after rather than before. The absolute is nothing if not creative in clearing the pathway to itself.

If your mind is wild, meditation can help to tame it, but not everyone is ready even for meditation.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

didn't awaken until I turned 55, and meditation came after rather than before.

You got really awake right? infinity opens before your face? I am really awake, hopefully half an hour a day, awake that reality manifests itself, here and now. I completely step out of the stream of life, the now opens and I am one with it. But then I'm back to the usual shit. Can you live open to infinity all the time? How?

[Moksha]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Can you live open to infinity all the time? How?

If true awakening happens, it's only a matter of time before the entire tower crumbles. I had many glimpses of the absolute during my life, even long periods of service and lumination, but it wasn't true awakening.

When the absolute awakens, there is no doubt. It doesn't need to ask apparent others for validation, permission, or acceptance. You directly realize that you are them, and they are you. The boundaries within you, and between you and other forms, begin to melt. You see the absolute in all.

Integration, which I see as keeping the portal open, happens naturally. My daily habits and relationships with others evolved. I was deeply drawn to the writings of mystics, beginning with the Bhagavad Gita and extending to other traditions. I saw beyond their words to the light that resonates within. Insights spontaneously began to flow. My beyond dreams, which I had as a child, returned (this part I prefer to keep general).

It has been a natural process, but hardly easy. My sincerity has been tested to the dregs. It is frighteningly beautiful. The light continues to grow, and I love my person more purely than I could when I identified as it.

I've seen a change in your posts the past few weeks. You're starting to understand, and have moved beyond pursuing extreme experiences for their own sake, to focusing your intent on integration. Keep going, that is how you unlearn enough to remain open to infinity.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Keep going, that is how you unlearn enough to remain open to infinity.

Yes, the real openess to infinity is amazing. experiences with drugs are a means of identifying barriers. without them it would be difficult but they are not an end in themselves. the true opening is something inexplicable and amazing, and empty of content. nothing is known there, you just are. 

[Moksha]

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, the real openess to infinity is amazing. experiences with drugs are a means of identifying barriers. without them it would be difficult but they are not an end in themselves. the true opening is something inexplicable and amazing, and empty of content. nothing is known there, you just are. 

In the flow state, the sun still rises and sets, but no longer falls below the horizon. Regardless of present luminosity, there is always clarity.

[The0Self]

21 hours ago, Blackjack38 said:

So I started following The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa, which is great as it gives detailed fundamental information about the nature of conscious awareness. I am in stage 2 now, have greater concentration.

So I have 2 questions for The Mind Illuminated readers:

1. When does The Mind Illuminated style meditation show actual benefits?

2. I heard it is easier to do jhanas than TMI meditation. If it is easier I will switch to Jhanas because I think I can get faster results with Jhanas being pleasurable by its nature.

 

Thanks

What? TMI is a system designed to get you to jhana the quickest. So your question doesn’t make sense.

If you can do jhanas without TMI then obviously you don’t need any help anymore. When you experience jhana you’ll know why. It feels like the exact opposite of burning alive.

Edited May 30, 2023 by The0Self

[Michal__]

There are multiple kinds of jhãnas. The mind illuminated includes the easy kind. Also the harder types. But those are all the same kind of jhãnas - the samatha jhãnas. Those are achieved by focusing on a strong objects that reinforces itself and makes concentration on itself automatic. You can't access those without getting access concentration first and then switching to a secondary meditation objects - when the breath disappears.

Then there are different things called jhãnas that are more like jhãnic qualities mixed with Vipassana deconstruction. Those are not harder to reach but are not a purely concentration practice. 

You can get an even mix of both using kasina meditation. So you don't have to worry about these details as much. You can get a nimmita very fast - specifically with the fire kasina (the secondary object). On other types it's not as fast. 

Too-long-didn't-understand(TLDU):

Either do mind illuminated or kasina.