Support for Ukraine is declining in the US

[Hardkill]

According to some polls out there the amount of people in America who support helping Ukraine win the war has been declining significantly. Now, Americans are divided over whether we should continue funding Ukraine for this war.

According to University of Maryland Critical Issues Poll with Ipsos, shows that "A plurality of Americans, 46%, said the United States should stay the course in supporting Ukraine for only one to two years, compared with 38% who said the United States should stay the course for as long as it takes. The partisan divide was notable on this issue, with 62% of Republicans wanting to stay the course for one to two years, compared to 51% of Democrats who wanted to stay the course for as long as it takes."

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2023/04/28/americans-show-signs-of-impatience-with-ukraine-war/

Also, it seems that a majority of Republican voters in the US are now opposed to providing weapons and financial support to Ukraine according to an Axios/Ipsos poll. Of course, Trump, Desantis, and other extreme right-wing Republicans in Congress have been vocalization there opposition for supporting Ukraine. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/us/politics/ukraine-republican-skeptics.html

 

 

Will the Biden administration and Congress eventually be pressured to stop funding Ukraine or will they continue to commit to helping Ukraine for as long as it takes even if undermines there political standing with the public?

Edited May 29, 2023 by Hardkill

[Danioover9000]

@Hardkill

52 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

According to some polls out there the amount of people in America who support helping Ukraine win the war has been declining significantly. Now, Americans are divided over whether we should continue funding Ukraine for this war.

According to University of Maryland Critical Issues Poll with Ipsos, shows that "A plurality of Americans, 46%, said the United States should stay the course in supporting Ukraine for only one to two years, compared with 38% who said the United States should stay the course for as long as it takes. The partisan divide was notable on this issue, with 62% of Republicans wanting to stay the course for one to two years, compared to 51% of Democrats who wanted to stay the course for as long as it takes."

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2023/04/28/americans-show-signs-of-impatience-with-ukraine-war/

Also, it seems that a majority of Republican voters in the US are now opposed to providing weapons and financial support to Ukraine according to an Axios/Ipsos poll. Of course, Trump, Desantis, and other extreme right-wing Republicans in Congress have been vocalization there opposition for supporting Ukraine. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/us/politics/ukraine-republican-skeptics.html

 

 

Will the Biden administration and Congress eventually be pressured to stop funding Ukraine or will they continue to commit to helping Ukraine for as long as it takes even if undermines there political standing with the public?

    Tough decisions for Biden, if he continues to support Ukraine indefinitely, he may alienate himself so much that he'll lose next election, and if he choses to appease some of the Republicans, try to convert someof their votes to his and support Ukraine for 1-2 years, that also may undermine his position witjin the democratic party.

   What di you think? Should Biden take more risk or appease?

[Guest Tobia]

14 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Will the Biden administration and Congress eventually be pressured to stop funding Ukraine or will they continue to commit to helping Ukraine for as long as it takes even if undermines there political standing with the public?

@Hardkill The Biden administration is perfectly aware that Ukraine is losing but they will keep funding it until the last ukrainian soldier is dead because prolonging the war servs US corporate interests extremely well.

Is a ukrainian defeat going to be somewhat embarassing for Biden? Yes a bit.

Does it matter? Absolutely not!  the US wins regardless of the outcome:

1) US weapons manifactures made hundreds of billions of dollars

2) NATO is expanding and european countries are purchasing american weapons

3) Europe is buying liquified gas from the US at 8 times the price of Russian gas

4) The lifeline between europe and russia (nordstream pipelines) has been bombed

5) Europe is de-industrializing and german industry is moving to the US

This war is a bargain for the US, the money is selfishly well spent and will bring back blood-stained returns several times greater than what was invested.

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Tobia

1 minute ago, Tobia said:

@Hardkill The Biden administration is perfectly aware that Ukraine is losing but they will keep funding it until the last ukrainian soldier is dead because prolonging the war servs US corporate interests extremely well.

Is a ukrainian defeat going to be somewhat embarassing for Biden? Yes a bit.

Does it matter? Absolutely not!  the US wins regardless of the outcome:

1) US weapons manifactures made hundreds of billions of dollars

2) NATO is expanding and european countries are purchasing american weapons

3) Europe is buying liquified gas from the US at 8 times the price of Russian gas

4) The lifeline between europe and russia (nordstream pipelines) has been bombed

5) Europe is de-industrializing and german industry is moving to the US

This war is a bargain for the US, the money is selfishly well spent and will bring back blood-stained returns several times greater than what was invested.

 

 

   That's disturbing the Biden administration can do this. How do they sleep at night?

[Israfil]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Tobia

   That's disturbing the Biden administration can do this. How do they sleep at night?

Probably laying in a bed.

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

1 hour ago, Israfil said:

Probably laying in a bed.

...

[Hatfort]

5 hours ago, Tobia said:

@Hardkill The Biden administration is perfectly aware that Ukraine is losing but they will keep funding it until the last ukrainian soldier is dead because prolonging the war servs US corporate interests extremely well.

Is a ukrainian defeat going to be somewhat embarassing for Biden? Yes a bit.

Does it matter? Absolutely not!  the US wins regardless of the outcome:

1) US weapons manifactures made hundreds of billions of dollars

2) NATO is expanding and european countries are purchasing american weapons

3) Europe is buying liquified gas from the US at 8 times the price of Russian gas

4) The lifeline between europe and russia (nordstream pipelines) has been bombed

5) Europe is de-industrializing and german industry is moving to the US

This war is a bargain for the US, the money is selfishly well spent and will bring back blood-stained returns several times greater than what was invested.

The corporate US seems to be interested in prolonging the war, indeed. The US has Europe at its knees with NATO, it's unbelievable how the EU governance is all in with this, as their economy is being crushed. It's hard not to take Ukraine's side, as the one being attacked, but dismissing any diplomatic route is not good for Ukranians, they are the ones dying.

Russia seems to be the one slowly expanding now on Donetsk, a region that they've claimed for them from the start. Perhaps it's wiser for Ukraine to negotiate now and just lose the Eastern regions and hold the center and the West. Zelensky is not for it. I don't think he can win the war with weapon supplies and good propaganda only. If they don't have enough men, weapons do nothing. Yes, both sides use propaganda.

[Blackhawk]

13 hours ago, Tobia said:

@Hardkill The Biden administration is perfectly aware that Ukraine is losing but they will keep funding it until the last ukrainian soldier is dead because prolonging the war servs US corporate interests extremely well.

Is a ukrainian defeat going to be somewhat embarassing for Biden? Yes a bit.

Does it matter? Absolutely not!  the US wins regardless of the outcome:

1) US weapons manifactures made hundreds of billions of dollars

2) NATO is expanding and european countries are purchasing american weapons

3) Europe is buying liquified gas from the US at 8 times the price of Russian gas

4) The lifeline between europe and russia (nordstream pipelines) has been bombed

5) Europe is de-industrializing and german industry is moving to the US

This war is a bargain for the US, the money is selfishly well spent and will bring back blood-stained returns several times greater than what was invested.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Tobia

   That's disturbing the Biden administration can do this. How do they sleep at night?

 

7 hours ago, Hatfort said:

The corporate US seems to be interested in prolonging the war, indeed. The US has Europe at its knees with NATO, it's unbelievable how the EU governance is all in with this, as their economy is being crushed. It's hard not to take Ukraine's side, as the one being attacked, but dismissing any diplomatic route is not good for Ukranians, they are the ones dying.

Russia seems to be the one slowly expanding now on Donetsk, a region that they've claimed for them from the start. Perhaps it's wiser for Ukraine to negotiate now and just lose the Eastern regions and hold the center and the West. Zelensky is not for it. I don't think he can win the war with weapon supplies and good propaganda only. If they don't have enough men, weapons do nothing. Yes, both sides use propaganda.

Sighs deeply..

It's twisted and fucked up that you guys actually think that the right thing to do is to not help the rape victim. To let the criminal do whatever it wants. You think it should just be allowed to take other countries.

Do you want to live in a lawless world without order where other countries are allowed to take over any countries they want? A world where evil is given free hands?

What the h*ll is wrong with you guys? How can you be so stupid? How do you sleep at night?

If China would invade/rape/annex US (or whatever country you live in), you wouldn't want to get help with defending your country? Your attitude would be: "Oh so China wants US, okay, then China is free to take US."  ?

Edited May 30, 2023 by Blackhawk

[Leo Gura]

 

[Blackhawk]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Exactly.

People who think Ukraine shouldn't fight for its freedom, and people who don't want to help Ukraine in its fight for freedom, should be consistent and also say that US should never have fought for its freedom.

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

6 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

 

 

Sighs deeply..

It's twisted and fucked up that you guys actually think that the right thing to do is to not help the rape victim. To let the criminal do whatever it wants. You think it should just be allowed to take other countries.

Do you want to live in a lawless world without order where other countries are allowed to take over any countries they want? A world where evil is given free hands?

What the h*ll is wrong with you guys? How can you be so stupid? How do you sleep at night?

If China would invade/rape/annex US (or whatever country you live in), you wouldn't want to get help with defending your country? Your attitude would be: "Oh so China wants US, okay, then China is free to take US."  ?

   Why sigh?

   What does a rape victim have to do with the Ukraine/Russia conflict? What if you can't actually help without getting yourself killed or everyone else killed in the process?

   Why are you asking us where we want to live? And why are you anthropomorphizing evil?

   What's is wrong and stupid about us, and why are you including me in the generalization?

Edited May 30, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

3 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Exactly.

People who think Ukraine shouldn't fight for its freedom, and people who don't want to help Ukraine in its fight for freedom, should be consistent and also say that US should never have fought for its freedom.

   TRUE! The one point I can agree on. America shouldn't have fought for it's freedom, and just let GB rule over it. Would've been a better world, and would've accelerated the destruction of human slavery within America as GB was THE ONLY COUNTRY to have anti slavery sentiments and principles. Most people really underestimate how impactful GB is around the world, especially against the human slave trade.

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Blackhawk

   Why sigh?

   What does a rape victim have to do with the Ukraine/Russia conflict? What if you can't actually help without getting yourself killed or everyone else killed in the process?

   Why are you asking us where we want to live? And why are you anthropomorphizing evil?

   What's is wrong and stupid about us, and why are you including me in the generalization?

I thought I was pretty clear.

Glad that not many people share your opinion. We would truly all be fucked if the majority would share your beliefs.

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

4 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I thought I was pretty clear.

Glad that not many people share your opinion. We would truly all be fucked if the majority would share your beliefs.

   What beliefs and opinions do you think I have that the majority would be fucked if they did have 'my beliefs and opinions'?

   Pretty clear you love rape examples?

[Blackhawk]

39 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Blackhawk

   What beliefs and opinions do you think I have that the majority would be fucked if they did have 'my beliefs and opinions'?

   Pretty clear you love rape examples?

Some people can see clearly only after they have got attacked by evil and got their freedom taken away. For example getting militarily attacked and annexed. You seem to be such a person.

My advise is to try to think proactively before bad things happen.

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

Some people can see clearly only after they have got attacked by evil and got their freedom taken away. For example getting militarily attacked and annexed. You seem to be such a person.

My advise is to try to think proactively before bad things happen.

   Again, what beliefs and opinions did you think I hold within this thread? What does 'getting attacked by evil', 'got their freedom taken away', and 'militarily attacked and annexed' have to do with beliefs and opinions you assume of me as a person and as a character?

   Why did you use a lot of rape examples? What do those rape examples between people have to do with thinking proactively before bad things happen at the country and nation level?

[Hatfort]

17 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Sighs deeply..

It's twisted and fucked up that you guys actually think that the right thing to do is to not help the rape victim. To let the criminal do whatever it wants. You think it should just be allowed to take other countries.

Do you want to live in a lawless world without order where other countries are allowed to take over any countries they want? A world where evil is given free hands?

What the h*ll is wrong with you guys? How can you be so stupid? How do you sleep at night?

If China would invade/rape/annex US (or whatever country you live in), you wouldn't want to get help with defending your country? Your attitude would be: "Oh so China wants US, okay, then China is free to take US."  ?

Whether you like it or not there is a balance to maintain that prevents a third world war. In this balance, if some other country sends troops to Ukraine, that's an act of war and Russia would be allowed to retaliate, so the help is limited to sending weapons.

Are we really helping Ukraine by sending them more weapons? Yes, but if there are not enough men to use them, weapons won't win the war. I'd say Russia has numbers in its favor.

China has already Tibet invaded, and nobody cares. Well, I care, but China won't listen to me.

[Leo Gura]

The key is to just look at what the Ukrainians themselves desire. There is no question they desire US weapons. They are begging for more weapons.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The key is to just look at what the Ukrainians themselves desire. There is no question they desire US weapons. They are begging for more weapons.

Does that mean that no amount of Americans who are against funding this war will be able to dissuade the government from continuing to fund Ukraine?

[Romanov]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The key is to just look at what the Ukrainians themselves desire. There is no question they desire US weapons. They are begging for more weapons.

So are we just prolonging their demise? There should be a point where any additional offensive assistance would involve a hot war between Russia and the U.S. 

I don’t see Russia backing off any time soon, they have nukes at the end of the day. If they lose badly enough, they can just drop a nuke to alleviate their loss.