Support for Ukraine is declining in the US

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Does that mean that no amount of Americans who are against funding this war will be able to dissuade the government from continuing to fund Ukraine?

Of course there are reasonable limits.

You have to consider the long-term cost of giving Ukraine to Putin.

10 hours ago, Romanov said:

So are we just prolonging their demise? There should be a point where any additional offensive assistance would involve a hot war between Russia and the U.S.

Not necessarily. We can assist without crossing that line.

Russia would be hurt the most in a hot war with the US. So that's unlikely. They can barely handle Ukraine.

Quote

I don’t see Russia backing off any time soon, they have nukes at the end of the day. If they lose badly enough, they can just drop a nuke to alleviate their loss.  

I doubt that will help their cause. Putin still has to deal with certain human political realities.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Blackhawk]

4 hours ago, Hatfort said:

Whether you like it or not there is a balance to maintain that prevents a third world war. In this balance, if some other country sends troops to Ukraine, that's an act of war and Russia would be allowed to retaliate, so the help is limited to sending weapons.

Are we really helping Ukraine by sending them more weapons? Yes, but if there are not enough men to use them, weapons won't win the war. I'd say Russia has numbers in its favor.

China has already Tibet invaded, and nobody cares. Well, I care, but China won't listen to me.

Nonsense.

Finland won over Soviet Union three times. With much less support from west. And Finland was/is much smaller than Ukraine. And Soviet Union was much more powerful than Russia.

And Afghanistan won over Soviet Union without any help from west.

Ukraine will win.

3 hours ago, Romanov said:

So are we just prolonging their demise? There should be a point where any additional offensive assistance would involve a hot war between Russia and the U.S. 

I don’t see Russia backing off any time soon, they have nukes at the end of the day. If they lose badly enough, they can just drop a nuke to alleviate their loss.  

Nonsense.

Russia wont use any nukes.

Russia knows that it would be the end of Russian Federation, and that Putin would get killed.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Blackhawk

[StarStruck]

Ukrainians are becoming spoiled and entitled. 

[Tanz]

On 5/29/2023 at 9:13 AM, Hardkill said:

Will the Biden administration and Congress eventually be pressured to stop funding Ukraine or will they continue to commit to helping Ukraine for as long as it takes even if undermines there political standing with the public?

"Liberal" people supporting war rather than peace talks is a totally different reality than what I grew up in where hippies were for love and war.  

There certainly needs to be a reasonable limit and budget for funding another country's war.  If America and Western Europe are interested in funding this war because they have a financial interest they need to at least be honest about it.

American vets had to beg for medical care and some of them died from cancer before they could get the proper treatment from the burn pits but then Congress immediately sends billions to another country.  Not to mention funding infrastructure and the East Palestine chemical spill.  

As Putin is censoring his people, it's likely that the Western government is doing the same, and general citizens will never really find out the truth. 

The best thing we can all do is just pray for the least amount of bloodshed as possible.   

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

37 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Ukrainians are becoming spoiled and entitled. 

   Christ man! You coming with the savage bars! Dude chill, buy a new refrigerator!?

[Leo Gura]

Humans tend to be entitled when it comes to not dying.

[StarStruck]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Humans tend to be entitled when it comes to not dying.

There is no charity. People only help Ukraine for their own geopolitical interests. There are tons of people dying in other parts of the world like in Uganda right now and nobody is putting up with their entitlement. 

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@StarStruck

   Christ man! You coming with the savage bars! Dude chill, buy a new refrigerator!?

Why do you think God allows this all?

[D2sage]

NATO soldiers has been in Ukraine since day 1.

US has its own problems. The president is mentally unfit.

US worries about China spy balloon when over 150 million American citizen data belongs to Chinese company.

Support for US is declining in US.

Edited May 31, 2023 by D2sage

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

11 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

There is no charity. People only help Ukraine for their own geopolitical interests. There are tons of people dying in other parts of the world like in Uganda right now and nobody is putting up with their entitlement. 

Why do you think God allows this all?

   Because he's the greatest saintly sadomasochist of all.?

   I'm sure there's some charity and not just geopolitical interests. Sure there's some dying in Uganda from their new law they passed down, and interesting stuff over an North Korea launching missiles at the sky, and other social issues still within China and Russia, and even polar bears struggling to survive because global warming is melting the icy platforms they need to walk on. All this existential crises, multipolar traps, poly crisis and meta crisis are still relative ultimately.

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

There is no charity. People only help Ukraine for their own geopolitical interests.

Look, bro, there's something called alliances and alignments of interest. That's politics 101.

The US does not need to be some sort of Mother Theresa charity.

We help Ukraine because Putin runs a corrupt mafia state. You want that mafia state running 1/3rd the globe? Are you insane?

Edited May 31, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Blackhawk]

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

"Liberal" people supporting war rather than peace talks is a totally different reality than what I grew up in where hippies were for love and war.  

They do not support war, the opposite.

Not helping Ukraine would be support for war.

Peace talks? Do you really think peace talks would do anything? Other than give Russia, the criminal, what it wants?

You aren't intelligent enough to see the big picture of what's actually going on.

Also this is the moment when world war 3 could be avoided.  If we give Ukraine enough support so Russia gets completely defeated, then China wont attack Taiwan in the future. But west (especially US) needs to ramp up its support for Ukraine.  It's weird why US refuses to give long range missiles, F16 fighter jets and more Abrams tanks.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Blackhawk

[RareGodzilla]

Quote

Finland won over Soviet Union three times. With much less support from west. And Finland was/is much smaller than Ukraine. And Soviet Union was much more powerful than Russia.

This is actually a bit of popular misconception. While the fins fought really well they did in the end give up all the teritiories that the USSR wanted them too.

[StarStruck]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Look, bro, there's something called alliances and alignments of interest. That's politics 101.

The US does not need to be some sort of Mother Theresa charity.

We help Ukraine because Putin runs a corrupt mafia state. You want that mafia state running 1/3rd the globe? Are you insane?

Putin can’t even handle couple of god forsaken Ukrainians. I doubt he could handle any better army than Ukraine. 

[Danioover9000]

@Blackhawk

2 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

They do not support war, the opposite.

Not helping Ukraine would be support for war.

Peace talks? Do you really think peace talks would do anything? Other than give Russia, the criminal, what it wants?

You aren't intelligent enough to see the big picture of what's actually going on.

Also this is the moment when world war 3 could be avoided.  If we give Ukraine enough support so Russia gets completely defeated, then China wont attack Taiwan in the future. But west (especially US) needs to ramp up its support for Ukraine.  It's weird why US refuses to give long range missiles, F16 fighter jets and more Abrams tanks.

   Do you think the USA isn't giving Ukraine long range missiles, F16 jets and Abrams tanks because it would escalate the conflict and force Russia to do nuclear tactical strikes, or is the USA planning to give Ukraine these weapons but yearly, enough for Ukraine to defend itself, but not enough for Ukraine to launch an all out offensive towards Russia?

   Okay, I'm stupid and slow to see the big picture. So?

   Peace talks can be useful, like delayed tactics and ceasefires, and negotiating when escalations in warfare could be costly for those involved.  

[Tanz]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

We help Ukraine because Putin runs a corrupt mafia state. You want that mafia state running 1/3rd the globe? Are you insane?

There is an alternative which is to give Putin half of Ukraine and divide the country in half. The Ukrainians that support Russia can stay in that half and the other half that dislikes Russia can go to the other side.  There are minerals and resources that everyone wants, they should just share them.  If no one surrenders, the war can go on for another decade and cost countless lives and lots of money, enough to pay for Medicare for all and give free college to students in America like many European countries do.  

The only short-term solution would be the worst possible scenario which would be to nuke Russia and disable any countermeasure for them to nuke back but who would be the real bad guys in that situation?  

[Stovo]

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

There is an alternative which is to give Putin half of Ukraine and divide the country in half. The Ukrainians that support Russia can stay in that half and the other half that dislikes Russia can go to the other side.  There are minerals and resources that everyone wants, they should just share them.  If no one surrenders, the war can go on for another decade and cost countless lives and lots of money, enough to pay for Medicare for all and give free college to students in America like many European countries do.  

The only short-term solution would be the worst possible scenario which would be to nuke Russia and disable any countermeasure for them to nuke back but who would be the real bad guys in that situation?  

If China invades the US should the US concede half its territory to China? 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Tanz said:

There is an alternative which is to give Putin half of Ukraine and divide the country in half.

Just ask the Ukrainians if they are cool with that.

It's not like we are forcing Ukrainians to fight. If they want to surrender to the Russians they are free to do so.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Tanz

2 hours ago, Tanz said:

There is an alternative which is to give Putin half of Ukraine and divide the country in half. The Ukrainians that support Russia can stay in that half and the other half that dislikes Russia can go to the other side.  There are minerals and resources that everyone wants, they should just share them.  If no one surrenders, the war can go on for another decade and cost countless lives and lots of money, enough to pay for Medicare for all and give free college to students in America like many European countries do.  

The only short-term solution would be the worst possible scenario which would be to nuke Russia and disable any countermeasure for them to nuke back but who would be the real bad guys in that situation?  

   Is this because most of the eastern Ukraine is mostly Russian ethnic?

   So let's say your scenario is played out, eastern Ukraine is under Russian federation, and western Ukraine is under NATO or is still sovereign, how do you decide where the new border is at? The natural river, which is many times smaller and so close between NATO and Russian federation?

    

[D2sage]

"US announces additional aid for Ukraine, including ammunition for Patriot air defence systems and Stingers" Wednesday, 31 May 2023, 21:43

Nothing is declining.

Putin is losing it. His nuke threats are empty.

The use of nuclear weapons would be a universally condemned. Countries around the world, even Russia's allies, would likely introduce to him some  severe sanctions that would devastate the Russian economy. Not to mention the immense humanitarian crisis. No more andrew tate wankers.

At this point, his nuke threats are to gain some sort of control to get  diplomatic negotiation.

The nuke card also let him stay in power in his bubble in Moscow.

US have done most to help ukraine. Without USA the world would probably not be a fun place to live in.

Edited May 31, 2023 by D2sage

[jimwell]

9 hours ago, StarStruck said:

There is no charity. People only help Ukraine for their own geopolitical interests. There are tons of people dying in other parts of the world like in Uganda right now and nobody is putting up with their entitlement. 

The USA, Japan, and their allies always proclaim "We are against changing the status quo by force.", as if they're the defender of justice. The main reason and perhaps the only reason they proclaim that is because the status quo favors them. 

When the USA invaded Iraq, Japan and their allies were silent as a mute. 

I don't support Russia invading Ukraine. 

I just want to highlight the fact that the USA is too metaphorically dirty to be the world's savior. The USA helping Ukraine also benefits the USA. It's still selfishness.