I’m Too Ambitious and Adventurous To Meditate

[Sincerity]

Is awakening one of your ambitions?

You don't have to "formally" meditate. Do it as You like, make it fun. It has to work FOR YOU!

Each meditation session could be an adventure for You.

[Water by the River]

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

 No more than 20 minutes of meditation is needed.

Actually, one normally needs to take the meditation off the meditation pillow into daily life, staying fully awake while the mindstream is doing its thing and is still on in daily life.

Only this way, off the pillow and in daily life, one gets the momentum of 1000s of hours of  meditation of transcending ones separate self (at least for normies and other not so gifted people, like yours truly) to make it to awakened nondual states. And these 1000s of hours when taken off the pillow into daily life are then really nice, no chore.

•  The really MAGIC POINT when you manage to take the mindfulness of staying "on top" of the mindstream, cutting it off if you want to, and off the meditation pillow into living daily life from that. From there on, its downhill, and gets better and better... bliss and love starts flowing.
  • To do that, one needs
    • the right system that can do that (taking meditation off the pillow). Not all (actually quite few, including Mahamudra) have efficient methods for doing that. If they have methods for doing that at all.
    • and a few 100 hours (I would guess in average) on the pillow to get to that point.

 

If somebody says one doesn't need these several 1000 hours (because he/she didn't need that), 

• that person could surely qualifies to coach others that also don't need these 1000s of hours... . And for sure, there are people that don't need these 1000s of hours. Although, probably not that many, considering how much is meditated, and few wake up...
• But how does one know how much transcendence/hours one needs to get the awakened states, before actually being there? And if a system that worked at less than 1000s hours necessary works on oneself? Right, one doesn't...
• Often most endearing are the folks that needed very little practice (or anything of practice at all) to wake up, or next to none meditation: Hey, won the lottery, great.
  • But how many win the lottery? Sure one got a lottery-winner canidate as coachee? Hey you, are you one, will ya?? The minor nuiances of life...
• Also awesome and funny are some Zen/Theravada-systems and the like, that teach "bone-breaking" methods of boring meditation that lead nowhere without really Uber-human-willpower of enduring ones monkey-mind, boredom, and failing meditation and lacking lovely states....
  • Like  in, Die on the pillow! Yes darling, but how about killing me softly with actually an efficient meditation system where I can see my progress, and actually start feeling better quite soon?
  • And where I don't get beaten with the Keisaku if I actually ask a technical question on my meditation method that makes sense?

 

For example here, here is  description on these awakened nondual states:

And below is a link to a short summary (considering the 600 pages of the book) of the Mahamudra-Path of Tibetan Buddhism using the Pointing Out the Great Way System/Book of Daniel Brown, with focus on Stage 3 "Yoga of One Taste" and Stage 4 "Nonmeditation Yoga", but also Stages 1 and 2 (the stuff done on the pillow to get to the magic point):

And these states are your jumping board to get finally rid of the separate self, crossing over to Full Enlightenment, fully coming home, as also described in the link. Nonmeditation Yoga of the Mahamudra System. For example.

Bon Voyage! 

Selling Water by the River

 

PS: Did I ever tell I get royalties on every Pointing Out the Great Way book recommended being bought uhhhh, just kidding . Neither related nor affiliated, just read all the books from the lovely author (sadly departed, Daniel Brown was a real hero. Cardozzo: Enlightened Renaissance Man), and quite a lot other stuff on Mahamudra/Dzogchen, and much of what else lives&crawls out there...

PS PS: And no, I am no monk- or monastery Aficionado, although I deeply respect this folk. Cardozza coined the term Enlightened Renaissance Man, which yours truy has shamelessly hijacked in his usual style elaborated on and recoined as politically nearly correct Renaissance-Man (male female diverse alien ... n+1 ) -Nondual-Realizer, and went on rambling about in:

 

[Breakingthewall]

Meditation for me is something that must arise spontaneously. There comes a time when you realize that your existence is basically an evasion, that all that exploring the world is really escaping from yourself. you can explore the world, but after you have gone deep into yourself. if you do it before, well, you'll go around in circles on your own suffering.

The problem with suffering is that since it's always there and you have a thousand evasion systems, you don't realize it. Eliminate all evasion, and you will see. btw, the number 1 evasion is projecting into the future and that includes a future enlightenment. Eliminate all evasion and face your suffering without filters, you will see that the only way out is meditation. Meditation has as its objective the total opening of your being to the now, the fusion with the now and the breaking of all limits.

There comes a time when the limits are intolerable, and the little traps to live comfortably within them do not work, then meditation arises.

[r0ckyreed]

29 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

Is awakening one of your ambitions?

You don't have to "formally" meditate. Do it as You like, make it fun. It has to work FOR YOU!

Each meditation session could be an adventure for You.

Awakening is. But I realize that I am not ready to pursue that yet. I am 26 and need to focus on building my ego before I deconstruct it. Not a good idea to put the cart before the horse.

[r0ckyreed]

29 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Actually, one normally needs to take the meditation off the meditation pillow into daily life, staying fully awake while the mindstream is doing its thing and is still on in daily life.

Yeah. I call this mindfulness. When I say meditation, I mean sitting down and doing a formal mindfulness practice. When I say mindfulness, I mean an informal process of standing, sitting, running, driving, etc. while being aware of the present moment without judgment.

I am not against mindfulness. I am against the monastic lifestyle of long-term meditation and other stuff. One should not make their life about meditation but rather about being mindful. I can be mindful and engaged in this moment while working out and growing a business. I can’t do any of my ambitions if I am on my ass.

Edited May 28, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Water by the River]

44 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Yeah. I call this mindfulness. When I say meditation, I mean sitting down and doing a formal mindfulness practice. When I say mindfulness, I mean an informal process of standing, sitting, running, driving, etc. while being aware of the present moment without judgment.

Excellent.

For me, the crucial Point for really getting the meditation "really" off the pillow into daily life was getting to THAT here

Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system)

Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon...

If you look HOW the thoughts emerge,

• (1) out of what they emerge,
• (2) what they are,
• (3) in what they move
• (4) into what they disappear

ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something"

All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that".

and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste.

What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also...

• Basically, looking into a thought, one sees its Emptiness/Nothingness (one doesn't find the thought, it evaporates). It is cut off. Dzogchen calls this cutting off "Trekchö".
• Daniel Brown called this stage a "High Speed Search Task into the unfindability of the nature of thoughts". A High Speed Search task into their emptiness, into their nature as consciousness, as Nothingness.
• So the emerging gets fast, very fast. Daniel Ingram also mentions that. But at some point, with enough practice and familiarity, YOU get faster. You spot and cut off every very fast, subtle, fragmentary thought arising. None of them "grips" you anymore, since you have seen them all, and their structure. Just thoughts arising very fast.
  • You don't control which thoughts arise. Depended origination, they are just emerging by themselves.
  • You can focus on just their arising (of thoughts), just their staying, just their going away.
  • At some point, they just emerge, looking into their nature is automatic, and they immediately dissolve. No duration. Just emergence, and poof gone. And when you are fast enough, you get a continuance of staying mindful. When that happens its pretty clear what happened. Your attention got so fast that you can stay mindful even through the high-speed thought emergence.
  • At the end, they come very fast, they don't get "elaborated out". Thinking, or elaborating the thoughts out, is slower than their emergence. They emerge already fully complete with their content, and then slowly get "talked/elaborated" in your mind. Natural reaction: So WHO the f*** am I (pardon my french) when I
    • don't control what thoughts emerge and
    • if they appear fully with their content in a fraction of a second, and get elaborated later in a hypnotic show over several second?
    • good question... to be answered later.

Outcome is: 

• You know the nature of every possible thought (Consciousness-Emptiness-Nothingness), of the whole mental-continuum of thoughts, all that there can be. Their nature.
• you can cut off or transcend/just watch your normal mindstream in most daily situations without getting caught up/hypnotized by it, which already here leads to a lot of bliss. Not sufficient bliss to get ones separate self completely handled, but already quite wonderful. That is the start of real freedom.
• You know how your mindstream hypnotizes you, and gets faster when you actually look into each thought arising and its nature.
• At some point you get fast enough to cut off every arising, or let it elaborate in a controlled aka mindful way.

 

 

Maybe that is interesting for some.

 

Selling Water by the River

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

@Leo Gura You’re a very harsh critic of Buddhism, do you consider these monks to be very awakened people?

All of my spiritual experience has lead me to conclude that Buddhism is bullshit. But you judge for yourself.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

41 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Excellent.

For me, the crucial Point for really getting the meditation "really" off the pillow into daily life was getting to THAT here

Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system)

Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon...

If you look HOW the thoughts emerge,

• (1) out of what they emerge,
• (2) what they are,
• (3) in what they move
• (4) into what they disappear

ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something"

All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that".

and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste.

What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also...

• Basically, looking into a thought, one sees its Emptiness/Nothingness (one doesn't find the thought, it evaporates). It is cut off. Dzogchen calls this cutting off "Trekchö".
• Daniel Brown called this stage a "High Speed Search Task into the unfindability of the nature of thoughts". A High Speed Search task into their emptiness, into their nature as consciousness, as Nothingness.
• So the emerging gets fast, very fast. Daniel Ingram also mentions that. But at some point, with enough practice and familiarity, YOU get faster. You spot and cut off every very fast, subtle, fragmentary thought arising. None of them "grips" you anymore, since you have seen them all, and their structure. Just thoughts arising very fast.
  • You don't control which thoughts arise. Depended origination, they are just emerging by themselves.
  • You can focus on just their arising (of thoughts), just their staying, just their going away.
  • At some point, they just emerge, looking into their nature is automatic, and they immediately dissolve. No duration. Just emergence, and poof gone. And when you are fast enough, you get a continuance of staying mindful. When that happens its pretty clear what happened. Your attention got so fast that you can stay mindful even through the high-speed thought emergence.
  • At the end, they come very fast, they don't get "elaborated out". Thinking, or elaborating the thoughts out, is slower than their emergence. They emerge already fully complete with their content, and then slowly get "talked/elaborated" in your mind. Natural reaction: So WHO the f*** am I (pardon my french) when I
    • don't control what thoughts emerge and
    • if they appear fully with their content in a fraction of a second, and get elaborated later in a hypnotic show over several second?
    • good question... to be answered later.

Outcome is: 

• You know the nature of every possible thought (Consciousness-Emptiness-Nothingness), of the whole mental-continuum of thoughts, all that there can be. Their nature.
• you can cut off or transcend/just watch your normal mindstream in most daily situations without getting caught up/hypnotized by it, which already here leads to a lot of bliss. Not sufficient bliss to get ones separate self completely handled, but already quite wonderful. That is the start of real freedom.
• You know how your mindstream hypnotizes you, and gets faster when you actually look into each thought arising and its nature.
• At some point you get fast enough to cut off every arising, or let it elaborate in a controlled aka mindful way.

 

 

Maybe that is interesting for some.

 

Selling Water by the River

Very inspiring. Maybe it's time for a more formal meditation, I would like to have that control you speak of. How long have you meditated until you can get detached of your thoughts completely?

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

Awakening is. But I realize that I am not ready to pursue that yet. I am 26 and need to focus on building my ego before I deconstruct it. Not a good idea to put the cart before the horse.

Wise decision. One many don't understand. If you don't burn through your karma it will distract you. Burn through all those desires till you are empty. 

Then you will be ready.

[gettoefl]

i say forget karma until later, do what you came here for which is wake up, i rise at 3am every morning to hit the mat and will continue until its kicks in full time

truth implores i be ultra serious, i haven't a second to waste, my heart can stop beating any time it pleases

i am a man in the desert who has wandered aimlessly and desperately many days searching for just one sip of water

i have plenty of time to pursue everything else both during the day as well as later on

impossible for me to sit on a mat 24 hours a day

Edited May 28, 2023 by gettoefl

[Recursoinominado]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All of my spiritual experience has lead me to conclude that Buddhism is bullshit. But you judge for yourself.

Can you elaborate?

[Razard86]

23 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

i say forget karma until later, do what you came here for which is wake up, i rise at 3am every morning to hit the mat and will continue until its kicks in full time

truth implores i be ultra serious, i haven't a second to waste, my heart can stop beating any time it pleases

i am a man in the desert who has wandered aimlessly and desperately many days searching for just one sip of water

i have plenty of time to pursue everything else both during the day as well as later on

impossible for me to sit on a mat 24 hours a day

You can't suppress your desires, if you don't burn through the karma it will ensnare you. It's why you hear stories of Spiritual Gurus who rape women, they never dealt with their desires first.

[CARDOZZO]

Just now, Razard86 said:

It's why you hear stories of Spiritual Gurus who rape women, they never dealt with their desires first.

Do you think we can reach a level where we burn all desire for sex?

It’s a divine tool for exploring consciousness.

[gettoefl]

12 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You can't suppress your desires, if you don't burn through the karma it will ensnare you. It's why you hear stories of Spiritual Gurus who rape women, they never dealt with their desires first.

they melt on the mat, everything comes up be it anger lust greed hatred jealousy ... it is all worked through seamlessly

the you who gets up is radically different from the you who sits down

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

Can you elaborate?

All of Buddhism, its practices and its attainments, is a fantasy, a dream imagined in the mind of GOD. It is possible to awaken so deeply that you will realize how silly and imaginary Buddhism is, and enlightenment, and the insanely deep dogma behind it and all nondual teachings.

No human teaching that I have ever encountered properly captures God-Realization. None of them.

All of Buddhism is a dream and no Buddhist comprehends this, even though they think they do, they don't. It is yet another religion/cult invented by very ignorant humans.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[bazera]

@Leo Gura What would you say of Sadhguru's teachings? Do you view those in the same regard as Buddhism?

[Husseinisdoingfine]

@Leo Gura So was Siddhartha Gautama himself not an awakened being?

[CARDOZZO]

@Leo Gura I think it’s insanely difficult to create a philosophy/practice/spiritual movement that is extremely PURE who express TRUTH/GOD-REALIZATION in all its essence.

Do you consider reaching an extreme purification to create that PURE way of expressing TRUTH/GOD-REALIZATION?

Considering that you’ll use language as a tool to teach it.

[Sincerity]

5 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Awakening is. But I realize that I am not ready to pursue that yet. I am 26 and need to focus on building my ego before I deconstruct it. Not a good idea to put the cart before the horse.

Well, just don't limit yourself artificially.

When You awaken You die, but then You are reborn - wiser, more authentic, more sincere, more motivated and connected to what You really want. At least from My experience, awakening is CRUCIAL for building a healthy ego.

To be honest, I find this talk about "being too young for awakening" or "not ready" complete bullshit. I am so fucking grateful I am doing this work at a young age. Just 2 days ago I died and was reborn (again) and I'm the happiest and healthiest mentally I've ever been. I'm so motivated to do everyday work, study for college, read books, etc. - nothing can stop Me. I personally think that the sooner You awaken the better - but approach it wisely of course, don't slack off on work / studying and other things.

Be careful because "I am not ready" may just be another dumb story You're spinning to keep yourself asleep for no reason. But only You can know whether it's true or not. I'm just telling You My perspective on the issue.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Sincerity

[BlueOak]

You could be an Adventurous Meditator. 
I used to think the spiritual experiences were a great adventure. They can still be fun.

Part of meditation is getting a headstart on your day with intent, its you letting YOU arrange the day before you begin. Its also taking minutes in the middle of a hectic schedule to settle the mind/body/spirit. Some of the most successful people out there have a small amount of downtime mid-day. The mind needs space to organize, if its rush rush rush, then there is no structure or organization.