I’m Too Ambitious and Adventurous To Meditate

[r0ckyreed]

I have been thinking about this thought.

How do Buddhist Monks live any different than from being dead? They spend their whole lives confined in a monastery sitting and counting their breaths. The few monks who leave to meditate in a cave are also not living any different than from being dead.

Meanwhile, there are those who are traveling the world, following a purpose to improve society and make a difference. They are improving themselves, facing conflict/stress, are actively overcoming their fears, and are living ambitious lives.

One of my first thoughts when watching Leo Gura is why is he not spending his life meditating in a cave if that lifestyle is so important for enlightenment? Why is he wasting his time by teaching and running a business. But that is when the thought came that the people who take up a monk life are actually fooling themselves because they are existing and not truly living. They actually believe that if they spend their entire lives meditating that they will reach so-called enlightenment. The thought never comes after 10 years of practice that maybe enlightenment and the whole monk life is a self-deception and a way of lowering a man’s ambition.

But who am I to judge, the eastern culture values the man who abandons his ego, not the one who builds it. Why do we desire to abandon our ego if the point of life is to develop it? Why would the Universe create an ego in the first place to only want to go back to the Source? Why not enjoy the game life is and work on maximizing our character and growth while we are alive rather than pissing it away seeking an enlightenment that does not exist.

There comes a point when one must stand up and take action and not spend most of their lives on a comfy meditation cushion. The Jedi meditate, but they do other things too that make them men and women of action and service. There is more to life than formal sitting meditation. Learn to meditate while doing hard work in the moment. If Buddhist monks can meditate high consciously in a monastery, why not carry that over to meditate in a business and life purpose?

These are just my thoughts here about the self-deception of enlightenment and Buddhism. I hope it is helpful or not.

Don’t get me wrong. I do formally meditate. But 10 minutes is all I need. The rest of the day, I am striving to following my ambitions as mindfully as I can.

Edited May 27, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[CARDOZZO]

Be a Urban Sage.

Can you be a Sage while doing Pickup?

Can you test your level of Consciousness while doing daygame on a crowded avenue?

 

[WeCome1]

@r0ckyreed , what is the source of your knowledge about Buddhist (or any other kind of) monasticism? Do you know any monks personally, and they have told you how their monastic life works and what it's about? Or have you watched/read some sources where the monastic life is described? Or are you simply repeating stereotypical things you heard somewhere?..

Edited May 27, 2023 by WeCome1

[Moksha]

Not all monks meditate in caves. The source in some is content to live in silence, but in others it engages in the awakening of itself. There is no deeper meditation than teaching, which cascades consciousness.

[r0ckyreed]

2 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

Be a Urban Sage.

Can you be a Sage while doing Pickup?

Can you test your level of Consciousness while doing daygame on a crowded avenue?

 

A Sage is what I strive to be. The truest test to meditation is being able to be peaceful while running a business and having a family. It’s easy to be peaceful when you have no obligations.

[CARDOZZO]

Just now, r0ckyreed said:

The truest test to meditation is being able to be peaceful while running a business and having a family

I agree.

Owen Cook talks about that a lot.

It’s so easy being spiritual when you’re just a monk in a monastery without obligations.

Also, I deeply recommend Leo’s video on that:

 

[r0ckyreed]

27 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Not all monks meditate in caves. The source in some is content to live in silence, but in others it engages in the awakening of itself. There is no deeper meditation than teaching, which cascades consciousness.

Of course not all live in caves but that way of life seems glamorized by spiritualists. 
 

2 hours ago, WeCome1 said:

@r0ckyreed , what is the source of your knowledge about Buddhist (or any other kind of) monasticism? Do you know any monks personally, and they have told you how their monastic life works and what it's about? Or have you watched/read some sources where the monastic life is described? Or are you simply repeating stereotypical things you heard somewhere?..

Books and teachers. My point still stands that if all you do is live to meditate, you will live no differently than being dead. There comes a point where time spent in meditation is time when your learning decreases. You can meditate for 40 years and still have the same IQ and level of knowledge/intelligence. Meditation hasn’t taught me anything new but that which is already the case.

[Jodistrict]

What they are doing doesn’t make sense to my belief system.  However, there is a part of me that thinks it may be legitimate behavior which then causes me anxiety.  I then construct fantasy scenarios and present them to my belief system which then concludes that I am still right and they are foolish.  Result: the anxiety goes away temporarily, but then comes back.  So, I post my beliefs to hopefully get group support of my beliefs and enhance their anxiety suppression potency.  If this doesn’t succeed, there is a small chance that there will be a breakthrough and my entire belief system will reorganize.  Then I will become a monk.  But my current mind is terrified of this prospect.  No... they are foolish.  Please tell me you agree.

[Moksha]

11 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Of course not all live in caves but that way of life seems glamorized by spiritualists. 

There are monks who spend their lives looking for, but never realizing, the absolute in caves.

There are monks who realize the absolute, and leave their caves to help others realize the absolute.

There are monks who realize the absolute, and still spend their lives in caves.

Solution: Don't be a monk 

What the absolute chooses to do with its so-called time is entirely up to the absolute. When it has surfeited its journey in a particular form, after decades (lifetimes?) of action and service, why not enjoy the final moments of this form in the transient solitude of a cave?

[Moksha]

14 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Then I will become a monk.  But my current mind is terrified of this prospect.  No... they are foolish.  Please tell me you agree.

Renunciation is a path to awakening, but there are other paths equally as effective. The most direct is self-inquiry. What matters is finding the path that is right for you, and learning to enjoy the journey.

[Schizophonia]

Meditation is not the be-all and end-all of an ascetic lifestyle, they are different things with a different calling.

[Loving Radiance]

There is no difference between meditating in a monastery and living life the achiever way. The thought that monks are dead is just that, a thought.

Do that which personally suits you and gives you your highest bliss (aka flow, gratification, satisfaction...). That may be being a monk... but you won't know it till you put your ego aside and live in a monastery for some time.

[WeCome1]

I happen to know a lot of monks from various traditions: Buddhist, Hindu, Orthodox Christian; one of my best friends is a dadi (a nun in Hindu monasticism). I suggest you re-evaluate the trust you put into your sources, because the portrayal of monasticism you have presented above is beyond rudimentary; in fact, it is the opposite of what you described.

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

A Sage is what I strive to be.

A Sage is what monks strive to be. And not just strive - they actually make vows to go through with it, and devote every waking moment to that goal. And boy do they have working and time tested systems for that.

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

It’s easy to be peaceful when you have no obligations.

All a monk has are obligations.

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Meanwhile, there are those who are traveling the world, following a purpose to improve society and make a difference. They are improving themselves, facing conflict/stress, are actively overcoming their fears, and are living ambitious lives.

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Why not enjoy the game life is and work on maximizing our character and growth while we are alive rather than pissing it away seeking an enlightenment that does not exist.

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

There comes a point when one must stand up and take action and not spend most of their lives on a comfy meditation cushion. The Jedi meditate, but they do other things too that make them men and women of action and service. There is more to life than formal sitting meditation. Learn to meditate while doing hard work in the moment.

Yep, that is a bit closer to the description of the actual life of a monk.

Monasticism is a life of discipline, devotion, service and cultivation of love. They actually do the spiritual work 24/7 - both during their practice and while engaging with the world. And because of that their life is filled to the brim; you honestly have no idea to what extent. "Ordinary" people are sleepwalking through life, compared to any decently devoted monk.

 

This lecture explains well what monasticism is about, and why people consider it attractive. It is in Russian, but auto-generated captions can be translated to English, and the translation is on point, checked. It is long, but illuminating.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by WeCome1
Added a video.

[Leo Gura]

1) Very few Buddhists or spiritual teachers are actually monks.

2) Being a monk is a very rare thing that is not suitable for 99% of humans. Which is why less than 1% of humans are monks.

3) Yes, monks have zero ambition. That's key to being a monk. You are basically deciding to throw your whole life away in order to attain meditative states. This is not necessarily a good thing. You have to want that.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

@Leo Gura You’re a very harsh critic of Buddhism, do you consider these monks to be very awakened people?

[gettoefl]

@r0ckyreed

this is pure vice like mind grip on display, you mind is selling you delusion and you are the willing purveyor

you are the poster child of mental enslavement, advertising what the ego considers the well lived life

the monk lifestyle is one, doing what you incarnated to do and two, living the bliss of awakening thereafter, namely living in the garden of eden without a care or a concern ... there is no better life imaginable but you have to be out of mind's incessant grandiosity to see this

i lived with monks for a bit, the benedictines at the abbey in san diego county and every day is a magnificent adventure never knowing what is going to full into your lap

meditation is simply abiding in your true nature, not letting the mind's storytelling run rampant and deceive you into thinking it matters

realize your true nature, start to integrate it, then let's talk about the monastic life

it is perfectly fine to enjoy the dream after awakening and it also perfectly fine to play with the birds and the animals in the garden of eden

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by gettoefl

[hyruga]

@r0ckyreedthanks for posting. Society, spirituality always like to tell us to be contented. It's good to see that you are ambitious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8W7v4JpNr0

 

 

[r0ckyreed]

6 hours ago, hyruga said:

@r0ckyreedthanks for posting. Society, spirituality always like to tell us to be contented. It's good to see that you are ambitious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8W7v4JpNr0

 

 

It is a paradox for sure. I call it the satisfaction paradox. We pursue our goals and ambitions to satisfy our desires. But too much satisfaction at the start can inhibit us from pursuing our goals and being satisfied in the future. Satisfaction to one extreme is complacency where one is content and has no desire to improve. Whereas, the other extreme is never being satisfied until the result is produced. Both forms are toxic. Balance is essential. Meditation is the way of being satisfied with little. But too much meditation can inhibit our ambitions. That’s the point of this post. I cannot live a monk life because I desire too much in life. That’s like playing a video game and only playing in the monastery when you could be exploring the entire world. Imagine playing a video game where all your character is doing is sitting down and meditating the whole time. You’d be like WTF is the point of that game? 

[r0ckyreed]

Access to our true nature is here and now. We don’t need to confine ourselves to a monastery to attain it. Exploring the world is self-exploration. Nobody creates a video game to meditate in it. The same way, the Universe doesn’t create life just to meditate in it. We need 8 hours of sleep. No more than 20 minutes of meditation is needed.

[CARDOZZO]

1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

We don’t need to confine ourselves to a monastery to attain it

Culture and society just tricks us into thinking that joining a monastery is the UNIQUE source for finding TRUTH.

God Bless: Peter Ralston, Jed McKenna, Leo Gura, Ken Wilber