How to appreciate pain and suffering?

[woohoo123]

Hi- I was contemplating why God didn't just make my life a paradise.

My initial answers were that it is already a paradise, but rather pain and struggle were a creation of my mind and a natural product of my experience being here and seeing contrast which leads to desire etc.

But somehow part of me is thinking 'well God should have thought of that' it doesn't explain why God doesn't design a Universe (in his infinite intelligence) where I am blissful all the time. 

Then in my mind stuff comes in like pleasure is not possible without pain etc. There is a reason for pain makes you grow etc.

But none of that explains to me (in a satisfactory manner) why God would 'design' pain and suffering in the first place and allow humans to experience it, when any purpose for pain can be done with bliss too (pain seems really unnecessary to me?)

He wants me to feel pain because God loves it? (but I don't).

Maybe I still have a naiive notion of God, where I am trying to confuse human (biased) love with absolute love?

I am quite accustomed to associating peace and appreciation with God. 

But can one also feel appreciation for God for the pain they experience too? (although I do find it hard to do this because fundamentally I feel it is unnecessary, other than the fact God likes it) 

 

[Raze]

Try “break through pain” and “break through difficult emotions” by Shinzen Young 

[the_void_of_chaos]

I have a feeling that you're not really thinking and maybe thinking too hard about it. There's no lubrication in the process i.e., feelings.

36 minutes ago, woohoo123 said:

Then in my mind stuff comes in like pleasure is not possible without pain etc.

Do you feel that you're trying to somehow justify to yourself that pain and suffering is needed?
 

41 minutes ago, woohoo123 said:

But none of that explains to me (in a satisfactory manner) why God would 'design' pain and suffering in the first place and allow humans to experience it

I can't tell for pain but I can tell you something about suffering. Some suffering is needed and you can't avoid it but also, you decide how much suffering is required for you to change. Say, for example, you want to write an essay and you're watching TV and you're procrastinating. Soon you'll start feeling bad about not doing the essay. Now you can do it. But if you don't, you'll emotionally suffer more. You'll decide how much suffering is needed for you to start writing the essay. You decided that. You allowed yourself to suffer. But if you decide that you should suffer more first and then start your essay, this will a habit. This is a simplification obviously.

 

50 minutes ago, woohoo123 said:

But can one also feel appreciation for God for the pain they experience too?

I don't personally think that way. Running with the idea of "enjoying/appreciating" pain in the common sense means you'll become a masochist. You can "enjoy" it in a spiritual sense by allowing the emotion to exist without interfering with its existence or allowing it to interfere with yours. You'll become insecure if you try to get rid of it.

 

1 hour ago, woohoo123 said:

other than the fact God likes it

What do you like? 

[woohoo123]

@the_void_of_chaos yes when I say ‘appreciate’ I don’t mean in a masochist way, I mean purely just making pain easier to process and accept by attaching some more positive meaning to it.

I guess you are right in that I am looking for some kind of justification of why pain exists. But I am not sure if I will be able to understand it from my current perspective if it’s just a function of absolute love 

[woohoo123]

Think I may have shot myself in the foot here... what I am really asking is why does God design pain the way he has. But once you start asking why, there is a never ending chain of why. Only infinite intelligence can understand infinite intelligence so I am probably never going to get it this way.

I also guess the reason I want to understand why God designed pain (to hurt) is so I can use this understanding to help alleviate the suffering in my own life. Feels like another self-defence mechanism used by the ego to try avoid painful emotions by dulling them through logical understanding of 'spiritual stuff'. But I think I need to give that up.

This video puts it nicely. 'Suffering is the burning up of the resistance we have in order to surrender' - I really like that like that quote 

 

 

 

 

[hyruga]

There are 2 main types of pain. 

One is physical pain. God bless you. 

Second is emotional pain. No matter what road you take, there will always be pain. For example, if you are a doctor, pain could be you want to be an entrepreneur but you really couldn't based on your circumstances.

You want to have a partner. Then again, sometimes you prefer being single.

Edited May 28, 2023 by hyruga

[caspex]

Well, if we are speaking at the level of God then there is most definitely no reason for pain other than that it is perfection. Why is it perfection?

See, "why" assumes that there is something else, a cause to the effect. When we ask why, we say "Why [Effect]" with the answer being "[Cause]". But what if something is it's own cause? Then the answer to it's 'why' would be itself. So, Why is pain perfection? Because pain is perfection. This 'perfection' or 'God' or 'Being' is the bedrock of all questioning related to causation.

So to answer your question of "why does God design pain the way he has" the answer to it is "Because God designed pain the way he has". Pretty much, there's no meaning behind it. We humans want to find meaning/cause in everything, which is the proper thing to do for survival. But this right here, is meaningless. Which infringes on our survival, so meaninglessness seems threatening, impractical, useless, unfulfilling, irrational, and "not a real answer". In reality meaninglessness/causelessness is perfection.

The only way to grasp this 'causelessness' of 'why God designed the world the way it has" is to simply grasp it. Although, to be able to simply grasp it, you need to free yourself of delusions and stuff which requires work and contemplation.

All the other reasons, imho, such as:

1. Pain is there for growth.
2. Pain is there so we burn all resistance, ultimately moving towards God and becoming one with it.
3. Pain is there because before we incarnated, we chose this life to grow in specific aspects.
4. Pain is there because we did bad things in past life.
5. Pain is there because you are weak.
6. Pain is there because you do not understand what it is.
7. Pain is there because you resist it

- are all relative reasons, that may be true, but are not their own cause. I'd say the purest answer would the one I provided, but it's definitely the least practical.

[Nilsi]

On 27.5.2023 at 10:08 AM, woohoo123 said:

But none of that explains to me (in a satisfactory manner) why God would 'design' pain and suffering in the first place and allow humans to experience it, when any purpose for pain can be done with bliss too (pain seems really unnecessary to me?)

If you were "blissed out" all the time, there would be no reason to go to work on a monday morning. Who cares, if your boss fires you, when youre gonna be blissed out anyways? Who cares if you shave, or take a shower? Why even bother standing up and walking to the toilet, when you can just shit your pants and be blissed out?

This of course applies to every motivation and instinct you currently possess.

In this Buddhist fantasy, life and culture would deteriorate quite quickly into a homogenous soup of indifference - which is exactly what you will experience, when you actually transcend the distinction of pain and pleasure in some peak (or permanent, if you insist) meditation/psychedelic/etc. experience.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Nilsi

[universe]

"God is one kinky-ass motherfucker"

Carolyn Elliott

[Moksha]

On 5/27/2023 at 4:53 PM, woohoo123 said:

I also guess the reason I want to understand why God designed pain (to hurt) is so I can use this understanding to help alleviate the suffering in my own life. 

Good inner pointer.

What is the purpose of pain in the physical body? It didn't evolve solely to make us miserable, but to wake us up to the damage being caused. If you stick your hand in a fire without pain, why remove it?

Suffering is the anguish of the soul. It exists to help you wake up to the damage being caused by your misdirection. Without it, why would you surrender yourself to god?

Leverage it to loosen your attachment to the self. Let it guide you inward, to the absolute. The balm of suffering is the unconditional love that is your essence.