The ultimate universal female truth

[Sugarcoat]

8 hours ago, TheCloud said:

I guess my main question has to be;  are you okay?  Is this obsession ruining your life?  How much, and in what ways, is it dragging you down?  Or is it building you up and making you stronger or better or prettier?

I don’t really have a sense of “life” in the conventional way that could be ruined

but I sense your sincerity. Perhaps it’s my lacking communication skills, but you can write what I wrote and be coming from different places with it….

you can write the most crazy negative shit and mean it all but still be sane and positive… 

it’s just fun authentic expression 

 

the last question , if we’re gonna speak in conventional terms . My vibe is better every year, some other people have pointed it out too (it’s not true if others don’t see it riiiiiiight???) . So this “obsession” doesn’t seem that bad after all…

but thanks ?? 

 

Are you okay despite your penis being average ? : ) because you asked me

Edited June 6, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[TheCloud]

15 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Are you okay despite your penis being average ? : ) because you asked me

Hahaha Thanks for asking!  My vibe is getting better, too,  Nobody said anything yet, though :'-(

 

15 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Well maybe because they don’t see how it matters because they view the problem as more psychological and independent of my appearance. 
 

I see my potential in my mind very clearly. And then I see how I look, the contrast shines so clear to me.  The details aren’t relevant imo. 
 

well a better question would be what can the ideal in my mind experience that I can’t . Everything in a way

I'm a little confused as to how much this is a practical concern, and how much a spiritual one.  You say you see your potential very clearly in contrast to your present appearance, which to me means a difference in details;  your ears are too big, your skin is blotchy, your fingers aren't long enough, etc and whatever.  You already had your nose altered, which is clearly a detail.

But you go on to say the details aren't relevant.  Are you saying that to you, being hot has nothing to do with your actual appearance?  I'm not nitpicking, I'm actually confused.

 

15 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

for me; I know there are plenty of men who would fuck me. That doesn’t make me wanna work less on my body lol , not in the slightest so it isn’t about their approval in some way . What is it then? Hmmmm

To me, and I think this is a common conception, hotness and sex appeal overlap.  Are sex and your hotness totally separate in your mind?  Like, your ability to find sexual partners is irrelevant to your hotness, and being hot is irrelevant to your ability to find sexual partners?

 

15 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Well it is different in that way yes . But it’s not so much about others in a way since I bet most people don’t mind my appearance I just blend in 

 I’m the one living and SEEING and experiencing this body all the time …

A lot of  plastic surgery, makeup and clothing and stuff  is a kind of beauty I’m not really  interested in…..

I’d rather have clear skin than rely on foundation if you get what I mean….

in some way you could say I want optimal health  (and my body wants it too so it’s not just in my head) that is kind of the type of beauty I want 

 

Due to your past success weight-lifting and your general manner of determination and self-control, I was under the impression that your health was exceptionally good.  I somehow don't think you're going to tell me that you're actually twenty kilos overweight, subsist on a diet of doritos and nutella, and have bowed legs and missing teeth from scurvy.  So is there anything about you that's really falling short of the peak?

 

15 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t really have a sense of “life” in the conventional way that could be ruined

but I sense your sincerity. Perhaps it’s my lacking communication skills, but you can write what I wrote and be coming from different places with it….

you can write the most crazy negative shit and mean it all but still be sane and positive… 

it’s just fun authentic expression 

 

the last question , if we’re gonna speak in conventional terms . My vibe is better every year, some other people have pointed it out too (it’s not true if others don’t see it riiiiiiight???) . So this “obsession” doesn’t seem that bad after all…

but thanks ??

You're welcome :-)

I figured that in this case, before delving deep and making a bunch more assumptions, it was best to at least confirm whether you're okay or under a lot of psychological distress.  I'm happy to hear that things are looking up for you.

 

Based on your response to Swarnim and my own intuition, my guess is that your main complaint is a sense of deprivation.  Also, possibly due to your competent and individualistic personality, I wonder if you don't isolate yourself a little more than necessary, making it difficult for you to get your needs met.  You're really responsive here, though, so these are just sort of (un)educated guesses.

Edited June 6, 2023 by TheCloud
removed unnecessary comment

[Sugarcoat]

23 hours ago, TheCloud said:

Hahaha Thanks for asking!  My vibe is getting better, too,  Nobody said anything yet, though :'-(

I like your vibe. Maybe that’s something  : )

 

I’m struggling to quote on my phone so I will do in this way:

You said:

“I’ m a little confused as to how much this is a practical concern, and how much a spiritual one.  You say you see your potential very clearly in contrast to your present appearance, which to me means a difference in details;  your ears are too big, your skin is blotchy, your fingers aren't long enough, etc and whatever.  You already had your nose altered, which is clearly a detail.

But you go on to say the details aren't relevant.  Are you saying that to you, being hot has nothing to do with your actual appearance?  I'm not nitpicking, I'm actually confused.”

You are right in your confusion. It was a lack of clarity from my part. 
 

What I was trying to say was a response to your questions about how I want to look/how I look. Obviously details matter to ME as I see them very clearly, and they stand in contrast to this ideal. Exactly as you said. What I meant was that the details aren’t relevant for OTHERS to know about online. As a way to say that the answer to these questions aren’t relevant as different women with different appearances could be dealing with the same thing as me so knowing the details to their appearance isn’t relevant to understanding what they are dealing with. Although that could be argued too. 
 

You said :

”To me, and I think this is a common conception, hotness and sex appeal overlap.  Are sex and your hotness totally separate in your mind?  Like, your ability to find sexual partners is irrelevant to your hotness, and being hot is irrelevant to your ability to find sexual partners?”

I like that you ask “in your mind” specifically as if you sense that there is not much else to pull from here…..perfectly suited question.
 

Sex can be imagined in a purely physical pleasure kind of way where hotness isn’t that big of a deal,  or more in a way that’s connected to sense of self,  in the latter case hotness is 100% connected. 
 

the other questions. One could improve appearance to attract more potential mates. And it is true, when I have improved my appearance I’ve gotten more male attention. But that’s not the main driver at all, not in the slightest. Actually I feel pretty neutral about the male attention I get generally . It’s more about my own ability to feel sexual in my self and my own body or something, regardless of who pays me attention. What is the joy in attention if you don’t feel you can enjoy the very self that it shines its light on?

I’m just being honest here regardless of how crazy it sounds. 
 

You said:

“Due to your past success weight-lifting and your general manner of determination and self-control, I was under the impression that your health was exceptionally good.  I somehow don't think you're going to tell me that you're actually twenty kilos overweight, subsist on a diet of doritos and nutella, and have bowed legs and missing teeth from scurvy.  So is there anything about you that's really falling short of the peak?“

 

First of all. During those years I weight-lifted, I was miserable and severely disconnected from my body. So any health effect from my lifestyle was completely overrun by the negative effects from this disconnection, so much so that I wasn’t healthy even really. 
 

I fit the conventional definition of healthy yes. But that definition is pretty weak haha. Also health has for most of my life been pretty conceptual. You read all this stuff about what’s good what’s bad, what happens in the body this and that, but all of that doesn’t get to the root of what this body actually is, beyond concepts.
 

And that’s where I’m trying to get in a way.

I want to know my body, what it is at its root. What is this body,  actually, no mental filter between, no preconceived notions about it. Tears are flooding down my eyes as I’m writing this so deep it is for me. This connection with my body that for some reason was so deeply severed from early childhood, it’s my deepest desire in a way, to know this body, to live in it so fully. 
 

You say :

You're welcome :-)

“I figured that in this case, before delving deep and making a bunch more assumptions, it was best to at least confirm whether you're okay or under a lot of psychological distress.  I'm happy to hear that things are looking up for you.”

That’s so sweet of you!!!!

 

you say:

 

“Based on your response to Swarnim and my own intuition, my guess is that your main complaint is a sense of deprivation.  Also, possibly due to your competent and individualistic personality, I wonder if you don't isolate yourself a little more than necessary, making it difficult for you to get your needs met.  You're really responsive here, though, so these are just sort of (un)educated guesses.”

Well you have a point. 
I do isolate myself quite extremely physically, but for most of my life I’ve not experienced it as significant or even real in the way a lot of people describe their isolation (causing them suffering). I don’t feel lonely as I hear a lot of people describe . I don’t have that connection and sense of realness about society. Very solipsistic existence almost. 

But I’ve watched a lot of Leo’s content and have been attracted to the energy of these forums so this post was kind of this energy that just took over me and started to express itself here, it barely felt like I wrote it lol this flow of energy just through the words.  

 

[TheCloud]

I'm glad I stuck with your post.  Even though the topic seemed shallow, you turned out to be a deep person (to me, at least.  I can't claim to be the final word on the matter :-P ), and this discussion came out as being deep as well.

 

6 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

It’s more about my own ability to feel sexual in my self and my own body or something, regardless of who pays me attention. What is the joy in attention if you don’t feel you can enjoy the very self that it shines its light on?

I’m just being honest here regardless of how crazy it sounds. 

 

First of all. During those years I weight-lifted, I was miserable and severely disconnected from my body. So any health effect from my lifestyle was completely overrun by the negative effects from this disconnection, so much so that I wasn’t healthy even really. 

 

I fit the conventional definition of healthy yes. But that definition is pretty weak haha. Also health has for most of my life been pretty conceptual. You read all this stuff about what’s good what’s bad, what happens in the body this and that, but all of that doesn’t get to the root of what this body actually is, beyond concepts.
 

And that’s where I’m trying to get in a way.

I want to know my body, what it is at its root. What is this body,  actually, no mental filter between, no preconceived notions about it. Tears are flooding down my eyes as I’m writing this so deep it is for me. This connection with my body that for some reason was so deeply severed from early childhood, it’s my deepest desire in a way, to know this body, to live in it so fully.

Here is all the stuff I wasn't understanding before.

I do this technique, sometimes, when I'm really stuck on something.  I'll separate myself into one who embodies a question or complaint or issue I have, and one who is tasked to answer or solve it, and I have a conversation with myself.  It can even get kind of heated, because it turns out all the disparate parts of myself are not perfectly in accord.  And it's not a one-sided conversation, either;  sometimes, it turns out the answer guy is the one with the problem, and the roles reverse.

In order to properly use this technique, one thing must always be remembered;  every voice in my head is me.  One side never has unique knowledge that the other side lacks.  One side never ultimately needs something that is detrimental to the other.  All sides, in the end, all have the same things, and are all one and the same person.  They've just been acting separately out of confusion.

This sounds to me like something that could be helpful in your situation, where the you that is your ego and the you that is your body have imagined themselves apart.  Is there a reason your body tried to escape from you?  Or is it that you tried to exist without and abandon your body?  Uniting the two, in the end, isn't something you actually have to do.  Your body and you are the same entity, neither of you having or being anything that the other hasn't or isn't.  Your body has been there the whole time, seeing all that you see and doing all that you do.  What needs correcting is your imagination that says it isn't so, that your body doesn't know and wasn't there.

It sounds like a really great and profound realization for you.  Thank you for showing this all to us.  I've really been enjoying this conversation.  Take plenty of time to meditate on or absorb the truth of your body.  You might even try talking to it :-D

[Sine]

@Sugarcoat in my experience people really do get more physical attractive when they work on themselves and become more loving (towards themselves and others) and more authentic. I have so many girlfriends that looks so differently, but they all really make an effort in life (more so in spirituality, love, art, healthy living - than for example make-up skills and gym work-outs) and they are all really beautiful to me, and I'm sure to many men. I also have male friends that have such different taste in women, one of them never likes the ones I think are hot, because he prefers women to be a little more on the chubby side. Then I have another male friend who likes women to be so skinny they are almost boy-ish looking. Hotness is not so black and white really. I'm right in the middle of that, so they are not super attracted to me, but I know sometimes when we are laughing, connecting in a special way or I say something in an accidentally really authentic way - or stuff like that, we have a moment where I notice they are physical attracted to me. it's so much chemistry and "type" - like.. Your not ugly, you're just not your type  

[Sine]

@Sugarcoat I think you'd enjoy and find benefit from checking out this instagram profile https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtHbiJoAY1O/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg== - this post is about self seduction

[Sugarcoat]

22 hours ago, TheCloud said:

I'm glad I stuck with your post.  Even though the topic seemed shallow, you turned out to be a deep person (to me, at least.  I can't claim to be the final word on the matter :-P ), and this discussion came out as being deep as well.

It was openness on your part that triggered me to share

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

23 hours ago, TheCloud said:

I do this technique, sometimes, when I'm really stuck on something.  I'll separate myself into one who embodies a question or complaint or issue I have, and one who is tasked to answer or solve it, and I have a conversation with myself.  It can even get kind of heated, because it turns out all the disparate parts of myself are not perfectly in accord.  And it's not a one-sided conversation, either;  sometimes, it turns out the answer guy is the one with the problem, and the roles reverse.

In order to properly use this technique, one thing must always be remembered;  every voice in my head is me.  One side never has unique knowledge that the other side lacks.  One side never ultimately needs something that is detrimental to the other.  All sides, in the end, all have the same things, and are all one and the same person.  They've just been acting separately out of confusion.

 

That’s cool. And sounds a little funny too? I’ve also done that naturally. I sensed some similarity between us when I read some of your other responses so I’m not surprised. 
 

it’s like  activate contemplation and acting like your own therapist and trying to trigger an answer by asking yourself these questions. Did you find answers? Sometimes I haven’t gotten clear answers to my questions although asking for them can plant a seed for it and has value despite. 
 

Do you always experience your voices as you?? Sometimes my mind can have a strong almost foreign presence to it….as if it’s outside of me…

 

i will answer the rest of your response eventually. I’m just struggling to communicate properly my understanding of it so it will need some time to

Edited June 9, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

On 2023-06-08 at 8:49 PM, Sine said:

@Sugarcoat in my experience people really do get more physical attractive when they work on themselves and become more loving (towards themselves and others) and more authentic. I have so many girlfriends that looks so differently, but they all really make an effort in life (more so in spirituality, love, art, healthy living - than for example make-up skills and gym work-outs) and they are all really beautiful to me, and I'm sure to many men. I also have male friends that have such different taste in women, one of them never likes the ones I think are hot, because he prefers women to be a little more on the chubby side. Then I have another male friend who likes women to be so skinny they are almost boy-ish looking. Hotness is not so black and white really. I'm right in the middle of that, so they are not super attracted to me, but I know sometimes when we are laughing, connecting in a special way or I say something in an accidentally really authentic way - or stuff like that, we have a moment where I notice they are physical attracted to me. it's so much chemistry and "type" - like.. Your not ugly, you're just not your type  

I agree with you. I understand all of what you said conceptually and I sense your sincerity and good intention. But I must say that since childhood I’ve experienced this very fundamental alienation from humanity, so in a way reading your post doesn’t resonate as I sense it coming from the very reality I’ve never felt deeply connected to (nor mourned this lack of connection) and when I was connected to it, it revealed itself to me as just a mental construction. something like that

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

On 2023-06-08 at 8:53 PM, Sine said:

@Sugarcoat I think you'd enjoy and find benefit from checking out this instagram profile https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtHbiJoAY1O/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg== - this post is about self seduction

Thanks. I like this

funny. I’ve naturally done that since a young age, didn’t know it had a name

its a very safe way to experience some sexual energy , in solitude. It can feel very real

[TheCloud]

20 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

It was openness on your part that triggered me to share

I want to make a Snowflake joke here, since you got triggered

(if you're unaware, and I sincerely hope that you are, a Snowflake is American ultra-conservative vernacular for an oversensitive liberal who is always being "triggered" by, well, ultra-conservatives.)

 

19 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

That’s cool. And sounds a little funny too?

I do sometimes get amusing responses, especially when I create more than two voices.  Instead of being serious, they'll start taking cracks at each other.  This generally only happens when the topic is non-critical, or when the discussion has dragged on a while without any results, which is also usually the point where more voices are brought in.  I once had a voice that was jealous of the rest of me.  I was literally jealous of myself.  That's the kind of shenanigans my disintegrated mind can get up to.

 

19 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

it’s like  activate contemplation and acting like your own therapist and trying to trigger an answer by asking yourself these questions. Did you find answers? Sometimes I haven’t gotten clear answers to my questions although asking for them can plant a seed for it and has value despite. 

 

Do you always experience your voices as you?? Sometimes my mind can have a strong almost foreign presence to it….as if it’s outside of me…

It's totally a form of self-therapy.  Every time I think of getting therapy, I try this technique out on my issue, and end up concluding that it wouldn't be worth paying and waiting for someone else to help me when I can get help for free and right now.  I definitely do sometimes get clear answers, though as you mention, sometimes it's just a seed for future exploration.

 

That usually happens when I can't bring out the right voices.  I can't embody a voice for a part of myself that has completely alienated itself, so at times like that I'll be stymied until I at least get some idea of what that alien would say in response to an inquiry.  Then it's just about finding compassion for the little alien and bringing it into the fold with all the previously integrated parts of me.  Everyone gets a seat at the table, and everyone has a voice.  That's the rule.

 

Which isn't to say that the rule has been without exception.  I think there have been one or two instances of me finding foreign entities, not in any supernatural sense, but in the sense that once found, the only role they had was to be expelled.  I don't remember the specifics, only that it was unusual to me at the time.  I suspect they were voices unintentionally planted by unhealthy authority figures from my childhood.

 

However, that experience isn't on the same level of foreignness as you described.  My voices never answer against my will or without my conscious direction.  Though, I don't think that's what you're describing either.

What you're describing sounds to me like a large-scale form of self-alienation, similar to what I mentioned but broader in scope.  Integrating aliens is the trickiest part of the technique, because there's no set method for giving a voice to a part that has never before had a say.  It's usually difficult to discern what the alien is doing, or what it wants.  Even worse, some aliens are barely verbal, or communicate in images, or some other inconvenient nonsense.

 

19 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

i will answer the rest of your response eventually. I’m just struggling to communicate properly my understanding of it so it will need some time to

It takes a while to process big things.  My brain can be half-fried for a couple of days after a significant realization.  I'll still be curious even if you take your time

[Sugarcoat]

19 hours ago, TheCloud said:

I want to make a Snowflake joke here, since you got triggered

(if you're unaware, and I sincerely hope that you are, a Snowflake is American ultra-conservative vernacular for an oversensitive liberal who is always being "triggered" by, well, ultra-conservatives.)

I love how you sat down and included a definition haha, but I know what it means. Not much time is needed on the internet to hear about it 

 

sorry for this wacky quoting I’m just struggling on my phone 

You said :

” I do sometimes get amusing responses, especially when I create more than two voices.  Instead of being serious, they'll start taking cracks at each other.  This generally only happens when the topic is non-critical, or when the discussion has dragged on a while without any results, which is also usually the point where more voices are brought in.  I once had a voice that was jealous of the rest of me.  I was literally jealous of myself.  That's the kind of shenanigans my disintegrated mind can get up to.“ 

Hahahahahah our own minds can be the funniest shit I swear. Be careful who you tell this too tho, they might make a call to the psych ward. 
 

jealous of yourself? Ok ?? never heard of that before. You must have realized your own chadness or something 

what’s cool is also that all these different “personas” you could call them, they aren’t just “in your head”. One could learn how to communicate them outwardly into the outside world and express there. For example some of us might feel we are very funny and charming and “deep”  in our heads but awkward and shallow in real life. But this “in your head” is in a way just as much you as you irl, and with time it can come to flow outwards. Like this convo we are having sharing our innermost worlds with each other and connecting ? even helping each other draw this inner energy outwards, or at least in my experience 

 

 

 

 

You said :

 

” It's totally a form of self-therapy.  Every time I think of getting therapy, I try this technique out on my issue, and end up concluding that it wouldn't be worth paying and waiting for someone else to help me when I can get help for free and right now.  I definitely do sometimes get clear answers, though as you mention, sometimes it's just a seed for future exploration.”

 

hahah I see you are economical ? And yes totally there is value to it even if answers don’t come right away. The best answers sometimes comes unexpected.

 

you said:

 

“ That usually happens when I can't bring out the right voices.  I can't embody a voice for a part of myself that has completely alienated itself, so at times like that I'll be stymied until I at least get some idea of what that alien would say in response to an inquiry.  Then it's just about finding compassion for the little alien and bringing it into the fold with all the previously integrated parts of me.  Everyone gets a seat at the table, and everyone has a voice.  That's the rule.”

 

really sounds like you’re growing yourself deeply that’s lovely to hear : )

you said:

“ Which isn't to say that the rule has been without exception.  I think there have been one or two instances of me finding foreign entities, not in any supernatural sense, but in the sense that once found, the only role they had was to be expelled.  I don't remember the specifics, only that it was unusual to me at the time.  I suspect they were voices unintentionally planted by unhealthy authority figures from my childhood.” 

I can relate in some way. Sometimes there can be voices expressing something and instantly we just see right through it as a completely unnecessary negativity and a pattern from the past, old trauma in the system; and this neutral attention to it , is what allows it to be expelled. 

 

“ However, that experience isn't on the same level of foreignness as you described.  My voices never answer against my will or without my conscious direction.  Though, I don't think that's what you're describing either.

What you're describing sounds to me like a large-scale form of self-alienation, similar to what I mentioned but broader in scope.  Integrating aliens is the trickiest part of the technique, because there's no set method for giving a voice to a part that has never before had a say.  It's usually difficult to discern what the alien is doing, or what it wants.  Even worse, some aliens are barely verbal, or communicate in images, or some other inconvenient nonsense.” 
 

maybe you are just more normal than me haha?. But you have a point, I don’t fully understand it myself. 
 

I swear what you’ve just written is more advanced than some forms of therapy . Who needs years of education when you have your own psyche to draw insight from. Thanks for sharing 

you said:
“”It takes a while to process big things.  My brain can be half-fried for a couple of days after a significant realization.  I'll still be curious even if you take your time “”

And how we understand our own experience and our past changes and evolves with time, so any old interpretations just get remodeled over and over, so it might not feel just right to express something when we feel we haven’t reached this proper understanding, because it’s so personal and real  to us that we want to give it justice by properly describing it .

“Half fried “ haha isn’t it lovely sometimes when things don’t make fully sense and we can just walk around like fools sometimes 

 

I’m equally as curious as you ?